<p>I'm a really avid musician but I also am interested in academically competitive universities. I looked the places like Yale's jazz band (not that I think I'll be accepted there) and I'm pretty sure my own high school jazz band can swing better than them. I noticed the same for other places like Northwestern and even Carnegie Mellon. Am I doing my research wrong? I want tohear these bands that are so called the 'best'.</p>
<p>Of the Ivies, the one most jazz students gravitate to is Columbia. Also look at USC, UCLA and Oberlin. Those are the schools the academic (top) jazz kids I happen to know are attending.</p>
<p>Do you want to study music at a university, as a major, or do you primarily want to study something else, and do music as an extracurricular on (or off) campus?</p>
<p>Are you (presumably) a jazz musician? What do you play? Do you compose at all? What are your musical interests?</p>
<p>Are you at all interested in a 5 year double degree program, in which you get a BA at a university/college and a BM at a conservatory/music school (sometimes on the same campus, sometimes at a separate institution)? </p>
<p>If you answer these and give a little more background and idea of what you want, folks could probably make suggestions. Hope this helps!</p>
<p>Many college ensembles will choose music for it’s degree of difficulty and not for it’s popularity or recognizability. Thus, it can sometimes seem odd or not “swinging”.</p>
<p>Many large universities will have multiple ensembles and each ensemble may have a slightly different purpose. The “University Band”, a non-audition ensemble at my son’s schools plays music that may be a little more “fun” than the Symphonic Band, Orchestra or Wind Ensemble. Marching and pep bands in college also almost entirely play popular music (aside from school songs and cheers), even more so than in high school.</p>
<p>Generally, the higher the level of ensemble, the more obscure the music will be.</p>
<p>SpiritManager, I’ve heard of Oberlin and UCLA, but I was wondering about slitghtly more selective universities (top 20). I didn’t know about Columbia until now, although I’m not sure if I could get into a place like that. You’re welcome to see my chance me threads (the older one is more elaborate with regards to my musical achievements) hehe. </p>
<p>Compmom: I’m a guitarist of 8 years and I wanted to do a premed but was also considering an engineering major, music minor. My ultimate goal is medicine, but I simply cannot let go of music. It will be hard (engineering, pre med, and music) but I’m willing to work for it. I haven’t been considering any 5 year programs but am definitely open to doing them, just as long as I can focus on my pre med and engineering studies equally. I play jazz, classical, and most definitely blues and rock. I do some composing, and I want to study some theory in college. </p>
<p>imagep: “to swing” is to be able to play with articulation and dynamic contrast. If a band cant swing it cant play (in a jazz context).</p>
<p>Some top colleges do not have premed majors. Some don’t have engineering. And you can apply to medical school after doing all kinds of majors, anything from music to English. I have cited an old statistic on here for years, that as a group, music majors have the highest acceptance rate to med school compared to any other major (at the time I first saw it, I remember it was 66%).</p>
<p>A music major involves very rigorous requirements and a sequence of courses that ideally starts in freshman year. Ditto for engineering, and for “premed” where that is offered (or sciences). </p>
<p>Would you be satisfied doing music on the side, in extracurricular ensembles, private lessons, playing off campus, etc?</p>
<p>I was wondering if you meant that you had never heard of Columbia, or had never heard of jazz at Columbia. I am concerned that you think Oberlin is not a top college (and perhaps UCLA as well, I don’t know the West Coast well), and wonder if you might be limiting your choices because you don’t have all the information you need.</p>
<p>If you do want to do music in an academic setting, a double degree might work best. Tufts and Harvard have double degree programs with NEC (Tufts BA/BM, Harvard BA/MM). Oberlin and Bard would be good choices though I don’t know about Bard’s jazz (Spirit Manager would know). Columbia has links with Juilliard and is also across the street from Manhattan School of Music.</p>
<p>If you want to go to medical school after college, and want to study or play music, you can consider all kinds of schools. There are many schools with great music departments, where you can major in just about anything, and later apply to med school. You would just have to do some prerequisites between college and med school, I believe.</p>
<p>The more I think about it, the more I think you might want to look at Tufts. Tufts has a medical school, an engineering school and a great music department, and there is that option of doing a jazz BM at NEC in 5 years while at Tufts, which can be decided after the first year if you prefer.</p>
<p>I know that pre med isn’t a major, but there are required courses and extracurricular activities that one should participate in to show an interest and commitment to medicine that take time. This includes research (I want to get started early so I will be competitive enough to do something at the NIH), volunteering, shadowing, and studying for the MCAT. </p>
<p>As far as engineering goes, it is also a time consuming area that requires interest and dedication to maintain a high gpa (critical for med school).</p>
<p>I would like to be in a structured program in music because there is still much for me to learn and there is more to do besides gigging, but as a last resort I will just do private lessons.</p>
<p>I know what Columbia is haha, but I wasn’t aware that its jazz program was any good. I also am very aware of Oberlin (a family member did their undergrad in music there) and after some thinking (and encouraging from that certain family member haha) I will definitely be considering that school. </p>
<p>Another concern i have is time management between engineering, doing pre med stuff, and try to fit in music I fear that I may not be able to dedicate as much time as I wish to each area while still having a high GPA and most importantly: sleep.</p>
<p>When/If I go to med school, I am considering Cornell due to their Medicine and Music Program (thing with Juilliard). I’ll start looking into Tufts a little more now, I have heard about it and it is starting to seem like a lovely place (I like the north and cold).
I’ll also try to get into Columbia, but it may turn out to be a high reach/improbable school for me. That darned ACT…</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the responses, everyone! Any more are more than welcome!</p>
<p>jimi, You are pretty diverse in what you want, and if you’re complaining about lack of swing, I’m guessing you appreciate good jazz when you see/play it. </p>
<p>Are you really passionate about engineering and medicine or are you choosing those because you think you will be wealthy and comfortable? I ask because you have to be honest with yourself so you don’t spend too much time down a path that doesn’t match your deeper interests and motivations. When my D picked her first college, she focused on biochemistry as a major and thought she was going to be a doctor until she tried to step away from in-depth music for that freshman year. She’s since transferred and is now studying music intensely (at Berklee) because the jazz and musical part of her just wasn’t getting what she needed from a University, even though she immersed herself as best she could. </p>
<p>At most schools, including Columbia, you have to apply to engineering OR another major. My D also applied to Columbia (biochem, minor in jazz studies), but was waitlisted so she never got to explore future how jazz fit into the curriculum or as an ensemble. </p>
<p>Continue to investigate … there is a way to explore all your passions, you just need to understand how to prioritize them for your undergrad years.</p>
<p>Oh when I mentioned Tufts i meant to also consider it for undergrad, not just medical school. oops</p>
<p>Anyone know about Brown’s jazz?</p>
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<p>In theory, you could do all of the foregoing at University of Michigan, which has one of the top 10 engineering schools; strong track in pre-med (med acceptances) and a top school of music.</p>
<p>However, the school of music would not actually LET you. Because frankly, you can’t really choose a “specialized” major like engineering and actually pull off two other simultaneous degrees.</p>
<p>At Umich, you <em>can</em> dual degree in Engineering and SOM in a 5-year sequence. It’s tough, and many drop down to a single degree.</p>
<p>Alternately, at UMich, you <em>can</em> in theory do Engineering and handle some pre-med tracked courses, but since the average GPA in Engineering is something like 2.9 (no grade inflation at Umich 
) it’s not really a door-opener for med school. Which I might add, is to my mind something of a flaw in your plan.</p>
<p>Med school is phenomenally competitive today. While it’s true that many music students <em>can</em> be accepted, the competition is quite phenomenal. The best programs will want to see a very high level of research, etc., that frankly, is very time consuming.</p>
<p>A strong Engineering program, by the same token, is very focused on team project work, with a very hard curve. At a school like UMich where most of the admits came from a rigorous 4.0/high-stat background, how do you think that curve works for a student whose focus is split? Or how would you juggle all the team project work with music AND pre-med.</p>
<p>Now none of that means you can’t pursue your music. I’m just not sure what you’d be getting from a music minor (which at most schools, is only available through BA/general liberal arts school, not usually a music school – which usually instead offer the highly sequenced BMus or BFA (the latter usually in the case of jazz) that you couldn’t get less formally. </p>
<p>And instead of juggling pre-med and engineering, have you given consideration to a specialization in bio-engineering??? At any rate, the point of my post is that “2 outta 3 ain’t bad” to quote an old song </p>
<p>I think if you visit a few top schools and talk to some of the Eng/PreMed and Music students, you’ll quickly find that you might need to adjust your plan in favor of sanity. Best wishes in your search!</p>
<p>I agree with you. I’ll probably end up doing biology (which I don’t mind) and music as a minor. Even if I wasn’t concerned about music, it would be hard to produce a good gpa at any engineering institution.</p>
<p>Brown doesn’t have distribution requirements so there might be some wiggle room for you with classes. I don’t know much about their jazz program though I do know the music major itself has three strands, composition, music/technology and ethnomusicology.</p>
<p>Not aware of Tufts’ jazz program, but be sure to sit in on some performances. My son sat in on their orchestra and was extremely disappointed. He felt it was not much beyond his h.s. orchestra. </p>
<p>One other thing…A lot of schools with great music programs and great engineering or science programs are complicated in terms of performance options, because practices and labs are often at the same time in the afternoons. So you need to check that out.</p>
<p>In addition to some of the really good schools you are looking at, some of the public state universities, such as U. Delaware, U. Maryland, Penn State, etc. also have good engineering and music programs.</p>
<p>By music department (at Tufts) I meant classes and faculty, which are great. Ensembles and orchestra would be extracurricular. I know a precocious jazz saxophonist who is very happy there, doing physics major and music minor. He is considering the NEC double degree program (with Tufts BA) but also still plays jazz outside of school as well as in extracurricular groups.</p>
<p>Another university to consider is Univ. of Southern California. There is a core curriculum, but it is possible to develop a unique major with the assistance of an academic counselor. The Thornton School of Music is over 125 years old. While SC is a major research university the freshmen class at Thornton is just slightly over 100. </p>
<p>The jazz studies department is well established and includes a full range of jazz interests from vocal jazz to studio/jazz guitar. Well known faculty include Ron McCurdy, Vince Mendoza, Bob Mintzer, Ndugu Chancler, Peter Erskine, Russell Ferrrante, Alan Pasqua, Steve Trovato and Frank Potenza.</p>
<p>USC had an admit rate this year of 18%. Admitted students had ACT mid range of 30-34 and mid range SAT of 2060-2250. Around 46,000 applied. </p>
<p>It is not in a cold climate, but mountain winter sports are about a 2 hour drive from the campus.</p>
<p>If you are bound for a STEM major then Johns Hopkins should be on your list. There are some wonderful jazz professors at Peabody.</p>
<p>In addition to those already mentioned, there are University of Rochester/Eastman School of Music and Cleveland Institute of Music/Case Western. You can double degree at Rochester/Eastman or you send study bio or any of the sciences at the U of R as well as be a music minor with continuing music instruction from Eastman.</p>
<p>I’ll start looking at Case Western and Rochester’s programs. Isn’t the head of the jazz program at USC a member of the yellow jackets? As far as Johns Hopkins goes, I don’t think I’ll be able to get in. I’m not sure if I’m Top 20 (ranked) material, even with a great music supplement.</p>
<p>If your major is at Case, then your music profs will be Case faculty, not CIM. Double majoring with a primary performance degree from CIM and an academic at Case will take 5 years. The problem is, a performance major from any major conservatory is going to occupy so much of your time- lesson, studio class, rep class, ensembles, etc- that finding enough time to devote to the academic subject can be very difficult. Attention needs to be paid to the physical plant of the two co-operating schools which can facilitate or hinder progress. For instance, CIM sits on a corner of the CWRU campus, so no place is more than a 15 minute walk, while Eastman and the River Campus are miles apart and getting between places on the shuttle can eat up more than an 60-90 minutes each way when adding in wait times.</p>