<p>That's interesting, BassDad. And a little disappointing that the orchestras are lack luster! I would have thought that the more popular instruments (violin, etc.) would be quite competitive. </p>
<p>I think I here kids talk about going to All State sometimes who aren't great musicians (I'm in MA, by the way), but I could be thinking of something else. I would postulate that it shows you are not bad at your instrument but it doesn't show you are outstanding.</p>
<p>Corranged,</p>
<p>I did not mean to imply that the groups were lackluster. In fact they were very good. The more popular instruments are indeed quite competitive, as I pointed out. It just happens that sometimes they get very few applicants on some of the less popular instruments and they may have the choice of taking a less than great student or having a teacher fill in on that instrument.</p>
<p>The situation varies a lot from year to year, place to place and instrument to instrument. It is possible for mediocre musicians to make all-state in some of those cases, but I think most of the kids who go are pretty good.</p>
<p>It is alot more competitive for a clarinet player to go to all-state orchestra than all-state band. First, only those selected by audition for Honors Band can even audition for Regional Orchestra. Band may have 8 clarinets on each of first, second and third part, whereas orchestra has only four total. On top of that, our state (PA) takes only two clarinets from the east and two from the west for state orchestra. To make the dilemma about where to play even more difficult, students have to sign a contract at the regional competition saying whether or not they will play at the state competiton if selected...and of course band seems to always come first! It takes alot of confidence to pass on a chance at all-state band for a chance to be in all-state orchestra!</p>
<p>Also, sometimes the regional bands and orchestras from very competitive regions are better than the state groups. All-state bands and orchestras must take a certain number of students from each region within the state, so it is possible that a poorer player from a less competitive region may "beat out" a better player from a more competitive region.</p>
<p>I sort of miss all the excitement of the music festivals!</p>
<p>My S plays brass in NJ's All State Jazz and All State Band; he was second chair in All State Orchestra but that conflicted with All State Jazz. He is a high school senior and does not want to become a professional musician or attend a conservatory. What he is finding -- after speaking to musician friends at some colleges as well as college
music performance coordinators -- that the college ensembles often are not as strong as our All State or high school ensembles. He says he probably will be fine in these college ensembles for two years and then will need to look outside the university setting for opportunities to play that will stretch and challenge him. Anyone else in a similar predicament?</p>
<p>Yes, 3boysnjmom, I think we have run into the same thing. My son (clarinetist) would probably love to be a classical musician; however, because of his wide variety of interests and the dismal outlook for classical performance careers, he is not majoring in music. He won't even consider playing in his college ensembles because he doesn't feel that they are at his level. He does still do things to improve himself musically, though. He privately studies both music theory and instrumental lessons from two different professionals, and plays in a city chamber orchestra. Our city also has a youth symphony that he could consider. Maybe you could look into options like these.</p>
<p>One possible problem with playing in groups at a music conservatory or very competitive music school, from what I hear, is that many of the chairs are occupied by upperclassmen or even graduate students. Freshman and sophomores might have a difficult time finding a spot in a top ensemble, and if they do they can probably count on playing second or third part. Maybe somebody whose student is a music major can comment on this better than I can.</p>
<p>3boysnjmom,</p>
<p>What I have to say applies to larger groups like orchestras and big bands. The world of small ensembles is so fluid and variable that every case is special and must be considered on its own merits.</p>
<p>College ensembles run the full gamut. The orchestra at our local county college is probably no better than the one at our high school, let alone the NJ all-state groups in which my daughter and your son participated. The orchestra at Curtis Institute of Music could give any professional group a run for its money. There are a lot of options in between.</p>
<p>Finding the right one will be a challenge. You want a group that is good enough to challenge him through four years, but not one that is so good that he has no chance of getting into it. Oberlin, for example, allows non-music majors to audition for their top groups, but few non-conservatory students actually get in one of them.</p>
<p>At least in the orchestral world, there are extremely few unpaid groups that are better than your average college orchestra, or even as good as the recent NJ all-state high school orchestras. The paid groups tend to fill up with professionals, so there are not a lot of opportunities there.</p>
<p>I think your best bet would be to find an area like Boston with lots of colleges, hence lots of college orchestras. Chances are that a school in need of brass players would not mind cross-registering a good one from another school. That way, he can hop from one group to another as his needs change. Another possibility is to find a school with a small but good music department. That way, there will be a solid core of talented musicians for the orchestra and still some spots left over for the student who does not have an extra four hours a day to practice his instrument.</p>
<p>As a sophomore in HS, my D also played in the undergrad orchestra of a large State U. Her HS had a very good orchestra and it was at least equivalent to the UG orchestra. By the time she was a Junior, my D wanted to quit the UG orchestra because they "stunk." By the way, this U has a music program with a decent reputation, especially at the graduate level. When it came time to consider colleges, my D decided she had two choices: either quit music entirely or look for double degree programs with a conservatory. There are State U's, such as Michigan and Indiana, that have strong reputations in music, but after her experience she would not consider the State U options.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your comments. My S has applied to a wide range of schools which would allow him to consider options such as lkf, BassDad,
and edad mentioned. His ED school and some others are in large cities so he could move around or find other opportunities to further his music education and performance. He has applied to a few small schools with
good music departments. And he has applied to the liberal arts college of one one large State university that has a strong music dept. I guess time will tell.</p>