Music Conservatory Admissions chances

<p>Musicprnt: I think the students would have the time for more liberal arts classes. They just don’t believe that they would have the time and perhaps their studio teachers don’t believe that they would have the time either. I know that most of them already feel that they do not have enough hours in a day to fit in the practicing that they would like to do and that the practice rooms at the better conservatories are very busy. We all know that the better a musician is, the more they feel the need to practice. </p>

<p>As the level of skill and artistry has risen amongst the matriculating, so probably have the hours spent practicing by the average conservatory student. However, we also know that by the law of diminishing returns, upping one’s practice from 28 hours per week to 42 hours per week does not yield much tangible improvement and in fact increases the risk of injury.</p>

<p>I think that the issue regarding liberal arts classes in conservatories boils down to this: What will benefit a musician more: being able to spend 42 hours per week in their practice room on their own (6 hours/day 7 days/week) or being able to spend 35 hours practicing (5hours/day for 7 days/week) and therefore also being able to spend the extra 7 hours weekly taking a liberal arts class in which they interact with others over the great societal issues of our time and past times?</p>

<p>Every good musician always feels that they are not as good as they would like to be. As the level of playing has risen, so has the competition and the compulsion to put even more hours into the practice room. At some point, enough is enough, and there is such a thing as too much of a good thing (to use two hackneyed expressions in a single sentence). I do not believe that adding an extra liberal arts course each year to a conservatory program would render the conservatory’s graduates incapable of meeting the high demands of the solo, chamber, orchestral and teaching worlds in music. </p>

<p>Don’t misunderstand me: I recognize that the development of a musician requires an enourmous investmest in individual practice (Gladwell’s minimum of 10 000 hours seems to be a good starting figure). I also recognize that conservatory students feel stretched for time even though they are among the most disciplined and efficient users of time amongst all college students: my experience is that on average they are better than the med and premed students (although obviously this varies considerably from students to student and school to school).</p>

<p>The neurotic among the students will certainly worry that their chances of a great career will be dashed or reduced by additional non-music study, but perhaps getting them out of the isolating practice room for a few more hours a week would reduce the neurosis. Most members of the listening public want musicians that have something to say to them and cannot discern that 1 Hz discrepancy in intonation that an extra 7 hours of weekly practice might be able to eliminate. It is difficult to have something to say if one knows nothing about the world other than how to manipulate strings, bows, keys, or valves.</p>

<p>If conservatories decide they need to spend more time on academics, they will probably lose applicants. If there is less distinction between a “conservatory” and a music program within a larger university, then the conservatory will cease to have the certain appeal of “all music, all the time.”</p>

<p>The excitement my S felt about not having to devote hours to subjects that were not going to further his career was part of the appeal of a conservatory environment. As point of reference, S was in gifted program, and took multiple AP subjects. He is not afraid of academics, just tired of them.</p>

<p>He plays horn. As with many brass instruments, the number of hours per day that you can physically practice are limited. The extra hours he had (and his schedule would indeed seem light to an outsider) he was able to spend on composition, gigging (paying for his education!), chamber music, and “mental practice.” Juilliard is generally careful to hire academic teachers (foreign languages and English are the main courses offered) with an arts background. A non-arts person is often a bit quicker to disparage the way a musician uses his time.</p>

<p>Although I would welcome the addition of more academic options to Juilliard, I would not welcome an increase in required academics. There are already lots of options for the serious music student who wants to also study other things.</p>

<p>Violindad, I find your reasoning very interesting. If your S or D is at a very high academic level and finds that Liberal Arts classes are important in their education then they should be looking at programs where that is possible, Rice, Northwestern, Dual degree programs at Peabody, Oberlin, Eastman, Harvard or Tufts with NEC etc. Kids do it but there has to be a very high level of non music academic motivation and commitment to be successful in these programs. It is also possible to double major at some of these schools but most often it also requires an extra year. If they are enrolled in a larger university music program which is less structured then it may be easier to take these classes in 4 years.</p>

<p>A BM in music requires a certain number of music credits per semester plus one to two Liberal arts classes a semester. There is not much flexibility and many classes must be taken in sequence. Also there is a maximum number of credits allowed by the school per semester. Many students who enroll in a BM program would rather use those extra credits to take music related electives. Maybe a BA program is more in line with what you are thinking of, more of a focus on general classes. </p>

<p>My S is a freshman at Eastman this year and they are required to take 1 LA class per semester. They offer a limited number of choices on the Eastman campus and as a freshman it is hard to fit those in to the very full, not very flexible schedule. If you are a Double performance - Music ed major, you are required to take music ed classes in addition so the maximum number of credits (and time) gets eaten up pretty quickly. </p>

<p>Students can take whatever classes they would like at the UR campus, but this involves several hours extra per class, taking the shuttle over to the River Campus, getting to class, then back again. So the student must be motivated to do this. There are also the extra hours of homework involved in taking these extra classes. Don’t forget all of the out of class time required to work on music theory, aural skills, chamber rehearsals, per day, plus evening studio classes and rehearsals. This does not even take practice time in to account. </p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, Eastman actually encourages students to pursue taking an extra minor or major, they are very supportive of this endeavor. But it often requires an extra year to complete. </p>

<p>So, is it possible to take all the liberal arts classes you are discussing, well, anything is possible. But is it realistic? You must research the individual programs to see what is the proper fit for your S (D?). And, to be admitted to these programs there must also be the high school grades, test scores, extra curricular activities etc. Each school is different, it is hard to make generalizations, your child has his research work cut out for him. </p>

<p>You should also ask how many students who are enrolled in these double degree or double major programs actually complete the curriculum. Just more to think about in your process.</p>

<p>This discussion highlights the differences between vocal and instrumental training. While lots of time is spent on studying and understanding rep, acting, memorization, diction, etc., there is only so much time a singer can practice singing. They certainly do not spend hours a day singing. Another factor is the time it takes for the voice to mature so singers are not typically ready for a professional career out of undergrad. For many, that results in the luxury of being able to consider a wide variety of undergrad experiences without jeopardizing the chances of success.</p>

<p>Violadad:</p>

<p>I hear you, and I understand what you are saying. There is a limit to where more practice is not going to make the student any better, and in fact it is in my opinion a negative if they practice too much (among other things, the risk of repetitive strain injury goes up, especially since on top of anything else, the student is likely to get tired, and as a result their posture and setup and such is likely to become less then optimal, which leads to real issues. Among some of the music students and in talking to their parents, there is this idea that if someone else practices 3 hours a day, and you practice 6, you will be twice as good, which frankly idiotic (on two grounds, one it isn’t a linear ratio, one person could get 4x as much out of each hour of practice then another person, so they don’t need 6 and b)as we were talking about, after a while extra practice time does little. </p>

<p>As far as discipline and such goes, I think music students have to be much more disciplined that pre med students or pre law students, I think their discipline is much more difficult. First of all, with pre med students, the basic requirement is to take a track of courses, get good grades on them, take some standardized test, then get into med school, then into internship and residency. It is a defined track, one where you know that if you study hard in the subjects, do well, prepare for the MCAT, do well, you are on the track, it is measurable, you can look at your gpa and see where you are, if your grades are slipping a bit you can do extra studying, get tutoring, etc, there is a definite feedback cycle there, that makes it easy to judge, for example, if you are practicing enough (i.e studying, working problems out, etc). </p>

<p>With music, it is as nebulous as heck, there is no magic rule. Someone who isn’t that talented, no matter how long they practice, isn’t going to become a virtuouso, and there are so many nebulous aspects to success, whatever that is. In pre med, you are taking standardized courses pretty much, even if the professor in a class is a dunce, you can still do well in the class, they are clear alternatives. With music teachers, a bad one can ruin your chances of succeeding, because you depend on a music teacher to evaluate and guide what you need. You could have a bad teacher on violin, for example, and I don’t care how many instructional videos you watch, how many Clayton Halsop dvd’s you buy, how many hours you practice,the bad teacher is going to hurt you. To get into med school, there is no magic there, you know what the rules are pretty much; with music, the rules seem to be simple, but that is a chimera, because saying "you work hard, you practice, become proficient, you become successful " doesn’t work, because the battlefield of music is strewn with talented, hardworking students who went nowhere. Med school doesn’t have the pixie dust element that music does, that in music you have to work and keep working, because there is no magic transition “you have made it” ,which professional programs have, and the formula is talent+hard work+ excellent instruction + more hard work+ sweat equity, and then hope the magic pixie of success pours the dust on you.</p>

<p>The real discipline in music is kind of like the discipline of the battlefield, where in the middle of a firefight it gets all scary, who is winning, what winning is in nebulous, and all you can do is keep your nose down, keep firing, trust those giving orders know what is going on, and despite being scared in the unknown, you keep plugging away, that is the discipline to ignore fear and move ahead, something pre professional program students don’t really have to experience, because they know what is up ahead.</p>

<p>As far as liberal arts classes for musicians, I favor it, for a reason I am not sure others would agree with. Music across the board is changing, from pop to classical, traditional record companies are dying, getting a new act out there in pop takes a very different path today and more so in the future, and in classical the old world order (literally old world order, from out of the 18th and 19th century) is rapidly changing. More and more, musicians are going to have to make their own career, even talented soloists no longer have the traditional path defined for them, where the record company signs you, you have management that guides you, etc (not totally gone, of course, but also smaller then it ever was and shrinking). I think musicians cannot just be the music playing ‘artistes’ they once were, that they are going to need to be more well rounded. My thought would be that having exposure to other things besides music practice, music theory, orchestra etc, like humanities and english and literature or history, would kind of bring the kids more into the real world. What do I mean? What I see happening in my always foggy crystal ball is that musicians are going to need to have a lot more ‘people skills’, they are going to need to define themselves, they are going to need to negotiate with other musicians on a flexible basis, they are going to need to be outreach people to audiences, to get gigs and so forth (not exactly a stretch, many musicians do this today). I suspect if orchestras and such are going to survive, there is going to be a lot more required then a body that can play a violin, cello or clarinet with technical prowess, it is going to require musicians who are truly performers, who even though they are a line player, reach out and connect with audiences. It is going to take understanding, not just of the 3B’s, but the world outside, too, and to be able to bridge differences and so forth. Though a lot of the hoity-toidy purists sneer at him for doing it, Yo Yo Ma is a fairly good example of what I mean, while still in the classical world (guy can get a gig with any orchestra probably with a phone call, and then some) he also is willing to do a lot more; Lang Lang can fill concert halls, in part because of his personality on stage, and Dudamel is causing a stir, not because he is a great conductor (though he is), but because he, though a music geek, sees something well beyond playing music well. I think having balance to the rigors of music can help the students keep a focus on the world around them, or that music is a human endeavor:)</p>

<p>do you know of any universities or conservatories that are particularly generous with scholarships for graduate school, especially in composition or voice–classical?</p>

<p>grad school combining composition and voice–do you know of any where a student can do both?</p>