<p>I’m laughing that Oberlin and Peabody aren’t even ON the list!!!</p>
<p>I know that these lists can be a good starting point for some, but they can also lead you on a wild goose chase. I think back to when D was a HS Junior and we were compiling lists of suitable schools. We paid far too much attention to arbitrary rankings and spent time and money on visiting schools that were completely irrelevant to D’s needs. We also found ourselves trying to justify outrageous tuition because “the school was ranked in the top ten”. Even when D was applying to grad school, she had friends howling when she made her choice: “Whadaya mean your going to X? School Z is in the top 5!”
Live and learn. In the search for music schools, specificity is king.</p>
<p>I disagree with violindad about parents reading the list and not taking it for rankings, many parents unfortunately do take this kind of stuff as a ranking system. Besides the obvious, that some great music programs are not on this list (CIM, others), it also can be construed as being a list of the schools that somehow if you go there get you something special automatically, and take it from me, there are more then a few parents like that, who are roughly parallel to those who use the USNWR rankings as an absolute guide of where students “have to go” to succeed…When I see words like “many people would agree with this list”, it makes it sound like there is some sort of objective method that determines these things, and there isn’t (I am not saying musicmom intended all this, btw, this is a comment on lists like this in general and the impact they have). </p>
<p>Cutting it off at 10 also implies somehow that these are the only schools worth looking at, that kind of like if you want to be an investment banker you better go to a top 10 business program, and that is way off the mark. As others pointed out, there are schools on this list that may be as good or better then ones on it, especially in some departments, and reputation of music school has pretty much zero influence when you are out there trying to work as a musician (it might if you were in music ed and trying to get a teaching gig, but that is more like academic based careers). I think giving a narrow list of 10 schools to start with is cutting out a lot of great opportunities, I think it would be better to make suggestions of competitive music schools and have a larger list, rather then trying for a top 10 that may or may not reflect much other then reputation.</p>
<p>Sorry, in the above, it should have read ‘There are schools not on this list that may be as good or better then ones on it’, couldn’t edit it in time.</p>
<p>It is very true that people pay far too much attention to lists; however, as musicmom84 clearly stated she was posting it because from her personal experience she found lists as a good starting place for people who have no experience with the music world. I don’t think her list is going to mislead anyone. </p>
<p>The schools she listed are definitely considered some of the best and her top 5 is correct from my point of view…I might have put Rice at #3 and I certainly wouldn’t left CIM or Oberlin off the top 10 but that’s just me. These discussions that we are having now are good because people who are beginning their search will read the lists and then the comments to get a well rounded perspective on music schools.</p>
<p>The problem is that the list varies greatly from instrument to instrument. I wouldn’t agree with much of that list for voice. A couple of schools I would have put on the list 2-3 years ago for voice would not necessarily be on it now because of turnover of teachers. I think the lists change enough and vary so much among instruments that they are useless.</p>
<p>Haha sure lists change enough but I don’t think that people (at least not musicmom84) intend them to be rankings so much as lists of the music schools that they would suggest to people who have no idea. </p>
<p>Also, rankings are not EVIL! I just did my voice auditions this year for 9 music schools and I can tell you that Juniors and Seniors depend on the rankings because we are so afraid that we are not going to apply to the right places. The rankings just give us some reassurance in a process where you really have no idea what the TRUE level of a program is unless you visit there for a solid 2-3 days. The more rankings that people put out there the better because each person has a slightly different opinion which makes for a democratic and overall unbiased source of information.</p>
<p>but yes you DO need to specify if you are ranking schools for CLASSICAL training and distinguish between instrumentalist, vocal, or both.</p>
<p>The problem with rankings is that most of them are based on personal opinion and worse, often on ‘conventional wisdom’ that may or may not stand up to scrutiny,but more importantly, what worked for the people who made those rankings doesn’t mean it works for others, which is what Cartera was driving out. </p>
<p>You have to ask yourself what those rankings are based on, is it based on what graduates end up doing? Is it based on the reputation of the teachers, that it turn raises questions about why they have the reputation they do? Is it based on conventional wisdom, that in turn is often based upon the school having a number of famous graduates and/or a good PR department? </p>
<p>I understand lists are useful, and we all compile them, and in terms of figuring out where to apply a list and rankings do come into place, you sit there and say “okay, after thought, here is where I am going to apply, and I really hope to get into X, but if I don’t I hope to get in Y”, and that is natural. But if you take others rankings you are assuming their ratings, their impressions are going to be the same as yours, and that is problematic, because as many others have pointed out time and again, the best schools is quite contextual, situational and also subjective, not objective.</p>
<p>Well I am very new to forums so go easy on me here (It’s my first day!); but I personally love rankings. Here’s my version which ranks the voice programs in the US:</p>
<ol>
<li>INDIANA UNIVERSITY - JACOBS SOM</li>
<li>THE JUILLIARD SCHOOL</li>
<li>RICE UNIVERSITY - SHEPHERD SOM</li>
<li>CURTIS</li>
<li>UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER - EASTMAN SOM</li>
<li>CINCINNATI CONSERVATORY OF MUSIC</li>
<li>NEW ENGLAND CONSERVATORY</li>
<li>OBERLIN CONSERVATORY</li>
<li>NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY</li>
<li>MANNES SOM</li>
<li>UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN SOM</li>
<li>PEABODY CONSERVATORY</li>
<li>MANHATTAN SOM</li>
<li>CLEVELAND INSTITUTE OF MUSIC</li>
</ol>
<p>Yale and AVA are also great but graduate only so not on my list. These schools move up and down all the time. Believe me, twenty years ago people would have scoffed at this list. But in my opinion this is how things stand right now with certain teachers being where they are.</p>
<p>“twenty years ago people would have scoffed at this list”</p>
<p>plenty of us around to scoff at it now! 
</p>
<p>I see at least five schools there that D was warned( by students and faculty) AWAY from during her grad school search. She got into all five of her auditions, three of them are on that list, two are not and the school she went to is not there either. I don’t even want to argue names, because it is YOUR list and those schools might be perfect for you and perhaps 5% of the singers out there. That’s essentially the argument against rankings. Good luck.</p>
<p>ps…there is more out west than Rice. A LOT more.</p>
<p>Oh to be sure I am not a student. Those years are long gone 
I would indeed be interested to know what schools I missed. Like I said, my list is very much based on where certain teachers are right now.</p>
<p>I can think of at least eight schools I would replace in that list (and why 14??). But that is irrelevant. There is no sacred canon or magic number. Like musicprnt said: " if you take others rankings you are assuming their ratings, their impressions are going to be the same as yours, and that is problematic, because as many others have pointed out time and again, the best schools is quite contextual, situational and also subjective, not objective"</p>
<p>I’m happy to share my experience with D, and her current insights as to what schools are producing good and successful singers. But add to some arbitrary list? No thanks.</p>
<p>It was my experience with D that these lists MIGHT be a starting point, and MIGHT make someone feel good about their choice…but they can also be a distraction from the reality of what makes for an intelligent choice and a great singer.</p>
<p>musicamusica - I would love to hear your insights. My D is going into the senior year and will be considering grad schools - probably after a gap year, largely because she feels overwhelmed by the choices at this point. I don’t want to hijack this thread, however.</p>
<p>happy to pm you! (and I think it’s highly appropriate to be overwhelmed) Though I had VERY little to do with the grad school process, except for being a sounding board.</p>
<p>Sigh. I guess, according to these lists, the west might as fall into the ocean. Fine. It won’t get too crowded out here.</p>
<p>ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh jazz shreddrmom…there are ENOUGH talented musicians here. Los Angeles is just our little secret.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thanks for the information. I don’t anticipate I’ll have much to do with it either.</p>
<p>Jazz and Musica, that grad list that the blog-spam list derives from indeed had USC Thornton high on it, as I recall.
We haven’t ALL forgotten the West
And fwiw, USC was one of the first places people told us about re: contemporary music/tech, and we’re in the midwest.
But with the admit being as hard as it is…the fewer who know the better for those applying ;)</p>
<p>“Thanks for the information. I don’t anticipate I’ll have much to do with it either.”</p>
<p>That means —all the anxiety and none of the fun. She would not even let me take her to the airport. THAT, apparently, is the boyfriends job. Just sit back and “enjoy”.</p>