<p>Disclaimer - I think both schools are great - but they are in different universes! There are some things interested parties should know - the "joint program" description is perhaps not fully descriptive, especially as far as Case prospectives go...</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Admission to Case is NOT a "backdoor" into the Cleveland Institute - if that is what the student is interested in. Case admission standards for performance are considerably lower than CIM.</p></li>
<li><p>CIM students are CIM students - not Case students - and they act, talk and as CIM students - to the exclusion of any Case students who may be around. CIM has its own dorm for freshman (and sophomores) and runs its own social events for CIM students. Case students live elsewhere and have no social events at CIM. In general, there is little interaction between CIM and Case music students- and I'm told CIM students often "look down" on Case musicians. Hearsay, disregard if you want!</p></li>
<li><p>Case students have a different theory sequence than CIM students - they aren't taught jointly unless the Case student petitions to enter CIM's sequence. Music history courses are the main required area where both sets of students may be taught "jointly" - even then, the course requirements to graduate aren't the same for both schools. </p></li>
<li><p>Case students have their own practice rooms - not in the CIM building. Case students are not allowed to practice at CIM - and I believe the converse is true - CIM practice at the Case facility discouraged.</p></li>
<li><p>Case students are taught by CIM faculty. But, not all CIM faculty take Case students. I don't know OP's D's instrument so the following might not apply. If there are multiple instructors, a Case student is not likely to be allowed to pick the teacher. Most often, Case will assign the instructor. If choosing the instructor is important, be sure to check Case's policies.</p></li>
<li><p>Case string players may be told that they can audition for CIM orchestra. If ever admitted, they aren't likely to be there every semester and they are most likely to be playing 2nd in the back. Case has its own orchestra that CIM students don't participate in.</p></li>
<li><p>The recital facilities for the two schools are different. Check the performing policies - there are totally different requirements and administrations.</p></li>
<li><p>The Double Degree program is different than the "joint" program and is wonderful. Students must be accepted at both places - high performing standards at CIM and high academic stats at Case. The program is administered through CIM. Students live in the CIM dorm and generally have their social life with other CIM students. They also complete an academic program at Case with all of Case's expectations - SAGE program, etc. It is a 5 year program.</p></li>
<li><p>CIM students get wonderful benefits from the "joint" program with Case. The liberal arts are taken at Case - broad choices across the entire Case course offering. CIM students can also join Case clubs, fraternities, soroities, and sports teams if desired. The Case libraries including the Case Music library is fully available to CIM students - excellent resources. The sports facility is also availabe to CIM kids.</p></li>
<li><p>Case offers a BA in Muisc - lots of opportunity to explore multiple areas, not just music. CIM offers a BM - emphasis is stongly on applied music.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Hope that's helpful. I do appreciate the strengths of both schools - just recognize that they are very different in their approaches to Music training.</p>
<p>Sorry for the misunderstanding. We are fully aware of these things, which is why her Case audition was this past weekend and her CIM auditon is in two months! I was merely stating they are on the same campus. We spoke to two students who take theory at CIM, as well as other classes. D's audition was actually adjudicated by some CIM faculty. The private teacher for d's instrument is a CIM faculty. She did apply for the dual program. While stated that "Case admission standards for performance are considerably lower than CIM". Case is academic. CIM is performance. You MUST be a good student to get into Case, but CIM admissions standard are also higher than some conservatories we are looking at because their academics are taken at Case. I was told by both schools that they work together well. It all depends how you look at it. For the studio my d auditioned for there are very few openings available for the large numbers auditioning, just like the other schools she is applying to. I know it is more difficult to get into CIM performance. Yes, Case is not a conservatory. But to say that students look down on others, well, I really do not like hearing that no matter where my d goes! The tour we were given by two Case performance majors stated that they knew as many CIM students as Case...and they do practice at CIM since that is where their teacher is and they perform in a wind ensembles and bands together. They did tell us that since d is a wind instrument, it would be difficult to get into the orchestra, but they do know of winds who are in it. These people knew that d is auditioning to CIM also and never said one negative thing about it. As a matter of fact, they invited her to stay with them when she returns for her CIM/Oberlin audition! Many of the Case students chose Case because of the academic route, not because they were not "good enough". Now, if d recieves acceptance from both, she would probably go the CIM route with dual Case admissions. She wants a very competitive performance school, but she said she could definately see herself at Case. She liked that the academics at Case is offered to the CIM students. This was her first of many auditions. It was a very positive experience which I thought was extremely important for a first audition. I think when a conservatory and a university work together you can have the best of both worlds!</p>
<p>I'm VERY sorry if my post disturbed you and your d. I didn't intend that. I also thought others reading the board won't have your inside knowledge and might be confused. My comments weren't meant as much for you as for others.</p>
<p>I definitely agree that "students look down on others, well, I really do not like hearing that no matter where my d goes" is NOT positive anywhere (and doesn't reflect well on the humanity of the individual who thinks they are "better"). As I said, that is hearsay, but I've heard it from many kids on different instruments across many years. </p>
<p>Check the rules - Case students are technically not allowed to practice at CIM. </p>
<p>I also agree that Case students choose Case for music because of Case's wonderful academics. Those Case kids are very sharp and often have multi-facitated interests. For kids with strong academic interests they don't want to drop, a BA in Music from Case can be an appealing option.</p>
<p>The schools do coordinate things very well together. There seems to be a solid mutual respect for both schools strengths.</p>
<p>CIM's orchestra assignments are made on a rotating, concert by concert basis. There is no permanent "seat" for either string or wind or percussion for a semester or year. If important, I'd ask how many CIM orchestra concerts a Case student might expect to play over a 4 year period. </p>
<p>Again, sorry if anything I wrote was offensive. I'm glad your D had a great audition. I have known students BA & Master in Music Ed who have attended Case and thought well of their experience. I have also heard that the Case music faculty is very supportive of auditioners - always a good sign!</p>
<p>The weather has been abnormally warm also in New England. Yesterday we had windows and doors open, and the temp hit a high of about 64 degrees, but with very high humidity. This was very flukey weather for this time of year, so please don't read anything into it as being normal!</p>
<p>Regarding Cleveland, my experience is that like Chicago, the winds can come off of the lake with some force, so especially in the winter, there is quite a breeze and thus a serious wind-chill factor.</p>
<p>Thanks Cartera, stringfollies, Allmusic, and thumper, for giving me more of a picture of Peabody. I should give as my background that I went to college in Boston and taught in LA and NYC (esp. NYC) for years, so I am used to urban settings of all kinds. I think the thing that bothered me about Peabody was that it was on top of a hill with a huge monument so it felt cut off somehow, and although there were some shops and streets, there wasn't a whole lot of activity. We couldn't find any parking so DS never went inside, and we were on our way south so pressed for time. I think maybe another visit is in order when DS can have a sample lesson and get together with his friends.</p>
<p>Parking is a problem at Peabody - I have circled many a block there. I agree that the location is not for everyone. My D wanted more of a classic campus herself - with grass and trees. She wanted mountains too for some reason. Growing up in an urban area led her to a more pastoral setting.</p>
<p>My d is a junior there, and is a biology major (not music). Case is a wonderful school but if your d does not like cold, she should consider another school. Freshman dorms are not near the main part of campus and while there is bus service linking the the campus, winter months can be be very cold and snowy. If you would like more general info on Case PM me and I will be happy to talk to you about campus life etc.</p>
<p>My D is a freshman at CIM. She wasn't sure about the school during a quick look last October but feel in love with it during her audition weekend in January. It truly was the best organized audition day we experienced out of 7 schools. D participates in the joint wind ensemble with both Case and CIM students. All of her classes this semester have been located either at CIM or closeby. So far she loves her classes and instructors.</p>
<p>I think that the discussion about Peabody here is the best example of why one needs to visit a campus. When I went there with my D last year, she declared that she didn't care how good the school was, she just felt too claustrophobic there. I ended up referring to it as "Hogwarts".</p>
<p>You'll notice after my first post on the subject that a lot of folks said that the very things that put us off about the place were the reasons it appealed to them. I guess that's why there a lot of schools to choose from. In the immortal words of Sly Stone: "Different strokes for different folks."</p>
<p>I second Don9992's comments. For example, my son has been at a boarding school with about 240 students in Southern VT, on top of a hill and with a dairy farm to boot. Oberlin looks just fine to him. NYC is possibly a more formidable environment -- fun to visit but maybe not the spot for the next four years. DS is also probably more willing to put up with an isolated situation like Eastman -- dorm and school close together and you never venture far from that. Everyone has to find the right mix of the school offerings with the local environment.s</p>
<p>That reminds me - I think some on the board are considering James Madison University. Please don't judge the campus by driving through on I81 and deciding not to get off the highway. We did that the first time we drove through the area. We decided to go back fortunately and both D and I loved the campus and interstate disappeared. And she got her mountains.</p>
<p>It may have been said in this discusion thread already but I and more imporantly, my D love Princeton where Westminster is located. If you visit you see. To me it is the perfect mix of college town, suburban yet in close proximity to major cities. The campus is very warm and inviting. See for yourself if you get the oppportunity.</p>
<p>I grew up in DC and lived in Manhattan for a while, but Peabody still felt a little uncomfortable--kind of a walled city. Baltimore is a great location--an hour from DC, on the train line to Philadelphia and NY. And you really feel the history at Peabody; for me, it had a more Old South feel than any conservatory or music setting I've ever visited. But son and I didn't love it and he didn't get in, so we didn't have to angst about it.</p>
<p>JugglingMom--S is a freshman-without a car- at Eastman. He is definitely experiencing "cabin fever". He takes a class at River Campus (URoch) 2x a week and a fun (not for credit) ballroom/salsa dance class 1 night a week just for a change of scenery. He does find the shuttle service very cumbersome. He will be taking his car back after Christmas. Also, for the record, only seniors are allowed to live off-campus.</p>
<p>Juggling Mom - We were told that Eastman students can use the parking structure on the back side of The School. I'm not positive about the price but I remember being surprised at it being lower than I expected.</p>
<p>Juggling Mom-- students can park at he East End garage for $40/month. That is the covered garage directly behind the school. Freshmen residents are not allowed to have cars at URochester. S plans to avoid the shuttle once he gets his car so I guess we will have to pay parking at both schools.
thumper1 -- it is my understanding that students with relatives, etc. can apply to live off campus; however, the "rules" are that freshmen thru junior years live on campus.</p>
<p>Juniors can apply to live off campus. If the dorm looks to be full, then some are granted the opportunity to live off. It depends on how many seniors and grad students choose to live in the dorm. They will not grant juniors off campus living if it will leave vacancies in the dorm.</p>