Music School Visits

<p>I'd like to propose something. I know there's a "college visit" section on CC and it's pretty useful in learning what to expect about the general atmosphere of a campus, but for music majors there are a lot of details that aren't necessarily going to be reported there. This is especially true of a place like Peabody that is, officially part of JMU, but very different from the parent school.</p>

<p>Since we're getting into "shopping season", I think we could help each other by posting what we see specifically in regard to music departments on this forum. I envision doing that in addition to whatever we want to add to the regular College Visit section.</p>

<p>Is that a kosher thing to do here? Are we all down with that idea?</p>

<p>Don, I think it's a great idea. I've been combing old posts of mine (here and elsewhere) looking for things I wrote about my D's application process. Problem I'm having is that D applied NOT as a music major, and only changed her major after admission (she auditioned for scholarships, and was convinced to switch to a major after they offered more money to do so.) So my reports aren't entirely pertinent - plus they're two years old. And S2's auditions took place 5 years ago! (Can it be?) So they might not be accurate anymore. But I still think it's a great idea, and I'll contribute if I can.</p>

<p>don, just wanted to point out that I know you meant to type "JHU" rather than "JMU." I have corresponded with you about JMU so just let me know if you have any more questions. D started classes as a freshman there this week.With regard to Peabody, I know it pretty well since I live near there. My D sang with the Children's Chorus there for years so I am familiar with the facilities and the area too - but not the dorms. One of her best friends is a freshman at Peabody this year. We also visited the following - </p>

<p>Westminster Choir
West Chester
North Carolina School of the Arts
Susquehanna
Towson University
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Otterbein
Delaware
Carnegie Mellon - just a quick tour</p>

<p>I noticed when I was reading the MT forum that they have a place at the top for each of the most discussed schools. Maybe something like that could be done here so visits, impressions, current info and school specific discussions could be passed along there.</p>

<p>Yup, my bad on JMU/JHU. </p>

<p>Can we get this thread made sticky so we can find it easily?</p>

<p>don, if you email one of the moderators listed at at the bottom of the music forum main page with your request, the thread should get "pinned".</p>

<p>operasinger2000 began a similar type thread based on audition experiences, but unfortunately it died. The link to that thread is here. Some good info for a few specific schools. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/474143-audition-reflections.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/474143-audition-reflections.html&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

1 Like

<p>I have a hunch the thread won't get "stuck" till there is something on it! :)</p>

<p>I too have nothing but "old news" in the undergrad department. But I will contribute one thing...if you want information about the music program, contact the music department. The general admissions departments (except at conservatories) know precious little about the music programs. We found that each university music program we looked into had a music admissions person who was most helpful. DS (and DD, the non-major who wanted to continue playing) also both had correspondences with the ensemble directors, and private teachers they met during our college visits.</p>

<p>Peabody Institute - November 2007</p>

<p>Peabody has the reputation of being a stellar music school and its alumni that I know hold up that standard well. Baltimore is a reasonable distance from home and the school's Web site is one of the most readable of any of the major schools. The picture I had was that it would be in one of those reclaimed neighborhoods with trees and lawns.</p>

<p>That picture was shattered as soon as we arrived. The neighborhood features much more concrete grey than green.</p>

<p>Peabody's campus is not a campus in the traditional sense, rather it consists of an entire city block of buildings joined together through a warren of hallways and staircases. Indeed, the only green space in the school is a courtyard in the middle. After our tour I remarked to my D that one could easily enter the school in September and not set foot outdoors until heading home for Thanksgiving.</p>

<p>I'm not sure how long it takes to learn one's way around in the "campus", but I can say for a fact that one day isn't nearly enough.</p>

<p>We were able to see about three performance venues, all of which were quite elegant and probably have splendid acoustics. Also the dorm rooms we saw were fairly large and appeared quite livable.</p>

<p>The rest of the physical plant appear to be quite worn and, in some places, almost industrial. </p>

<p>The bottom line with my D was that, as formidable a music as it is, she's quite sure she'd find the experience to be claustrophobic and it just wasn't for her.</p>

<p>It also took us about 20 minutes to get to the JHU campus which is a long way if your student wants the university experience. It isn't the right space for my S, but I thought the campus seemed like a charming place to immerse oneself in music. On our way up to the JHU campus, we did see many restaurants,bars, shops and art galleries that students enjoy.</p>

<p>I'd like to offer an alternate view of Peabody...because MY kid loved it. The campus is quite compact and all of the music facilities, dorms, dining, etc are in very close proximity. My son loved that because he knew that was where he would be spending most of his time. Also, since he wasn't planning on taking any courses at JHU, the proximity to that campus didn't matter to him. We were there in the middle of a blizzard and the construction was taking place on new parts of the facility. The people were wonderful despite some "obstacles". DS was able to look beyond the facilities (hey he went to BU where the facilities are...well...worn out...as they are at NU, NEC and many other great music programs due to limited funds). The draw was the faculty on his instrument. Ultimately he decided not to go there, but it had nothing to do with the physical plant. And he thought the people were most helpful and the programs excellent.</p>

<p>I must agree that shabby facilities were seen almost everywhere, and should not affect one's opinion of the education being offered. New School, NEC and Purchase are pretty beat-up physically, though Jordan Hall has tremedous history and charm, despite its peeling paint! But amazing music is coming out of those banged-up practice rooms. MSM has had a recent amazing face-lift with its new residence hall, and it's kind of the country club of living space. I never saw a Hartt dorm, but the music building was decent, not spectacular. I have heard that Oberlin has many old lovely practice spaces.</p>

<p>I also loved Peabody, because of the cobblestone and brick, the charm of the park right across the way, the architecture, museums and restaurants that all were within walking distance. We spent the night a few blocks away on the waterfront, where there was lots going on (street festival, people eating outside, etc).</p>

<p>My son didn't really like it, so never applied. But <em>I</em> thought it was charming.</p>

<p>NEC's facilities are appalling (I have attended many concerts in dungeon-like basements with peagreen walls and semi-poor acoustics!), but Jazzzmomm is right about the amazing, amazing music coming from those beat-up rooms.</p>

<p>U/Hartford (Hartt) has recently undergone some facelifting.</p>

<p>Freshman dorms (The Complexes) were almost all redone in summer '06. A new residence hall (Hawk Hall) was opened in September of '07. I believe the Park River suites underwent a renovation this past summer, but it may have been an exterior upgrade only. Info is on the U/Hartford site.</p>

<p>The Handel Performing Arts Center (slightly off campus) is brand new and will put in service for September. The facility will benefit the dance, theater, and music theater programs, not the instrumental program (not sure about vocal), but should free up some space in the main Hartt (Fuller) building.</p>

<p>I've commented previously on the Lincoln Theater, Millard and Berkman performance venues, but a posting by HarttAdmissions indicated that Berkman (a black box, used for small ensemble, recital, 20/20 performances has been redone over the summer.</p>

<p>I haven't been inside any of the renovated facilities. If son returns to Hartt for a performance or visit, I'll ask his impressions.</p>

<p>I have stuck the thread for now as it is that time of year when students are selecting schools and making visits. Please add more musc school visits to the thread.</p>

<p>Interesting read on people's perspectives...</p>

<p>Being that Peabody is in a major city and the safety of my D was paramount in my mind, the fact that "that one could easily enter the school in September and not set foot outdoors until heading home for Thanksgiving" was a definite positive for the paranoid parents that we are. We saw this as a major advantage to let's say Eastman where the dorm was separated from the academic buildings by a short walk, but past the YMCA. At least we knew that at Peabody, late night practice sessions didn't necessitate finding an escort to get back to the dorm. And, from a student perspective, being able to run to those 8:00 AM classes in one's jammies even in the winter has definite advantages</p>

<p>D is now in her Junior year there and continues to love it and thrive there. The key to our decision was that the school provided the correct educational and performance enivronment for her, which it has. The safety perspective was just that little extra icing on the cake for the parental units.</p>

<p>As this thread got pinned, the Master List of '08 acceptances got unpinned. </p>

<p>Makes sense to keep the most overall info current.</p>

<p>On the same token, the Master Lists of Final Decisions can be a great resource for direct contact of a student (or parent of) about actual school/program specific experience.</p>

<p>The last two years final decision threads:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/424909-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2008-a.html?highlight=master+list%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/424909-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2008-a.html?highlight=master+list&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/310197-master-list-music-school-acceptances.html?highlight=master+list%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/310197-master-list-music-school-acceptances.html?highlight=master+list&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I’m contributing to this thread for two main reasons – 1) to say thank you to the cc music major contributors for the great advice provided over the last year and 2) to offer some observations of my own about that same year for prospective music majors and their nervous parents.</p>

<p>My D is now a freshman viola performance major. I won’t say where just now because it’s not important although it is easy to find in the various threads.</p>

<p>We dropped her off last week and said our tearful goodbyes. This Monday was her first day of classes - music theory at 8AM, ouch! We pray that parents’ weekend will arrive quickly.</p>

<p>As a family, we searched long and hard for the RIGHT music school with the RIGHT viola professor. It had to be the right school/professor for HER and no one else. Yes, we were paying the bills, but because the prof/student relationship seemed so personal, especially for a music performance major, the fit had to be perfect. Fortunately, we knew a symphony violist/university professor who helped us with an initial list, and we took it from there.</p>

<p>I was a novice when the process started, and I still consider myself a novice. Only now, I know enough to be dangerous by giving advice and opinions. I expect and hope that the many experienced contributors to the music major threads will correct my errors.</p>

<p>My advice and observations (in no particular order) – </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Start off with a plan - wandering around aimlessly from university after university is very expensive and not overly productive.</p></li>
<li><p>Read the posts on the cc music threads.</p></li>
<li><p>When reading the threads, look for firsthand knowledge about specific schools and teachers. Hearsay isn’t always helpful or accurate.</p></li>
<li><p>Buy Peterson’s College Guide for Performing Arts Majors.</p></li>
<li><p>Read BassDad’s “One Family’s Experience”. You can find it in these threads. You will find it has strange similarities with your upcoming journey.</p></li>
<li><p>Ignore, I repeat, ignore the old USNWR rankings of music schools. They are outdated and irrelevant and have nothing to do with whether or not a school is right for your child. BTW – my D attends a school that is highly ranked on that same list. Still, the list is irrelevant. </p></li>
<li><p>Make an initial list of what is important to your child – not to you, but your child – about the music school he/she attends and the teacher he/she studies with.</p></li>
<li><p>There are good arguments for conservatories and good arguments for non-conservatory music schools. If your child wants all music and only music all of the time, perhaps a conservatory is the solution. My impression is that a very intense music performance education is also available in a large university setting, but the student also gets the complete university experience as well. Again, that may or may not be important to your child. This was the choice my D went with.</p></li>
<li><p>Understand that just because your child is the best violinist, violist, cellist or whatever in the school, district or regional orchestra, it doesn’t mean music school admission is a slam dunk. At the top schools, the competition is extremely tough. On audition day, it will be very, very clear that your child is just one top dog in a group of many, many top dogs. I remember sitting in the practice room at one audition (a big mistake) while my D warmed up. I could hear the violists in the neighboring practice rooms. My D was good, but so were they. I remember thinking - this is a crap shoot!</p></li>
<li><p>If your child doesn’t currently have a private teacher or someone to help prepare audition pieces, get some help now. Preparing for audition day is not a casual process. Work with someone who knows what they are doing.</p></li>
<li><p>My D is a violist. At most of the schools, audition day required that she play two contrasting pieces of her choice and sometimes a specific required piece. She was also asked occasionally to play scales/arpeggios right at the beginning of the audition. He/she should know most major and minor (N, H, M) scales. The audition material almost always indicated she should be prepared to sight read. She was never asked to do so. At some schools, there was time for some back-and-forth with the professors. At other schools, there was none. I believe the longest audition was 20 minutes.</p></li>
<li><p>So there you have it – your child has twenty minutes to show very experienced musicians/teachers what they have to offer. YOUR CHILD SHOULD BE PREPARED AND WELL-REHEARSED. The advice I’ve seen on the various threads about having one November audition for early decision is good advice. Even if the school is not your child’s first school, the early audition helps build confidence.</p></li>
<li><p>VISIT THE SCHOOLS AND HAVE “LESSONS” WITH THE APPROPRIATE PROFESSOR. In my view, this was the most important thing we did for my D. First, my D was much more comfortable on audition day when the viola professor knew her and had heard her play before. Whether it was true or not, she felt like she had an advocate in the room. Secondly, however, within a few minutes during that initial lesson with the professor, your child can normally tell if the prof is a yes, a maybe or a no way in terms of someone he/she wants to work with for four years.</p></li>
<li><p>The tour of both the campus and the music college/building is extremely important. Again, your child can quickly tell you if this is the place where he/she wants to spend four years practicing and performing.</p></li>
<li><p>I’ve read lots of contributors talk about double majors/double degrees. Make no mistake about it - music performance is not an easy major. My D takes 17 required credits this semester. Eighteen is the max the school will permit. That workload does not include the expectation that music performance majors will practice four hours each day. Even if your child is Einstein and Madori all wrapped into one, evaluate the requirements of a double major carefully before jumping in. BTW – several schools required that if she accepted a BM scholarship, she also agreed to waive the right to pursue a double major. They know how difficult music performance is along with another major.</p></li>
<li><p>BA in Music and BM in Music Performance is not the same degree at all. This may be obvious to some contributors, but it’s not always obvious to the novice. An LAC with a BA in Music may not be what your child is looking for if he/she is after a performance degree, but some LACs may have just the right prof and program, so you never know.</p></li>
<li><p>In a high profile or large music school, the ratio of undergrad/grad is important as is the number of students in each studio and for each instrument. In many schools we visited, the university orchestra was an audition only group. In other words, there is no guarantee your music major, even your music major on scholarship, will be seated in the orchestra.</p></li>
<li><p>The undergrad/grad ratio is also important in understanding whether or not your freshman music major with be studying weekly with the famous professor or spending more time working etudes with the DMA candidates.</p></li>
<li><p>Don’t make any assumptions about music scholarships. You are often competing for acceptance/placement in a studio based on the others auditioning for the same instrument, but you may be competing with all music majors for scholarship money. At some schools, we were told that right up front. If the school has just graduated all of its oboes and bassoons and has a surplus of violins, guess which freshman will be offered the scholarships? Find the right school, the right professor, audition well and keep your fingers crossed about the money, but don’t assume it will be offered.</p></li>
<li><p>At many of the non-conservatory schools, the music admissions department DID have some sort of input to university admissions. I know this is not the case at all schools, but the music school/college/department website will normally say so one way or the other.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>There is much more that I can’t think of just now, but I expect others will correct and add to this. Please been gentile. I am still an novice, but a seasoned novice if there’s such a thing.</p>

<p>Finally and with all due respect to the many contributors on the music major threads, there really are great music school in the west and on the west coast – both large university based music colleges and high profile music conservatories. Many of the prestigious schools in the east should certainly be on anyone’s list, but don’t forget the schools out west. By doing so, you may miss out on the perfect school and the perfect professor for your child.</p>

<p>per othermusicdad:

[quote]
there really are great music school in the west

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes there are. San Francisco Conservatory, Colburn, USC/Thorton, U of the Redlands, U of the Pacific, U/Colorado/Boulder, U/Denver, Colorado College , ASU to name but a few. Unfortunately, they are not often discussed here in detail, but include some excellent faculty, facilities, programs and peers. They can be just the right program depending on instrument or discipline.</p>

<p>Do not exclude them just for name recognition of comparable east coast/midwest options.</p>

<p>othermusicdad, an excellent post. Thank you.</p>

<p>Thank you. </p>

<p>For anyone from California, California schools can be very nicely priced. Several of the Cal State schools - Northridge, Long Beach, LA, Sacramento and SDSU -offer both a BM and an MM. UC schools offering these degrees include UCI and UCSB. UCLA has a rather large music school and a new gift from Herb Albert, but they do not offer a BM only a BA. </p>

<p>For all three UC schools, you are in if the music department wants you and you meet the UC eligibility requirements.</p>

<p>Sorry about the typos in the last post! I guess I depend on MS Word a little too much.</p>