Music theory question

Ok so my D is a rising junior. We are just beginning to make a college list of schools for MT. Recently a music director (church) who was listening to my D sing was very critical of her limited knowledge of reading music/sight singing/ m theory. He made out like my D has no future in theater if she is not proficient at it. I am curious to know how many of your children have a lot of m theory in high school and your opinions on this statement. My D gets done theory instruction in school but not a lot. She can read music a bit but is not adept. He made my D feel awful about it & I need some opinions from others!! TIA

MT programs usually teach a couple of semesters of theory. My daughter struggled this year (it’s the math of music so she felt doomed-lol). It may be helpful to have her take lessons or maybe somehow get some theory under her belt so that she has some knowledge of it. I was kicking myself for letting The D give up on piano lessons all those years ago

Omg us too! She had piano and something had to go and that was it. Plus she attends an arts h school but not vocal dept, she’s MT student so only gets tiny bit of theory. Oh no she hates math so that’s why she doesn’t do well in the bit of theory she does get. Ugh. Any thought from others on this?

The more you know in each of these areas before arriving, the better. It is hard and the downfall of many. So if it’s possible to get more theory training before college, I would. Not only is it good to know now, it will benefit you in the professional world. Kelli o’hara has discussed musicality and the ability to sight sing as being very instrumental in helping her at the start of her career. It set her apart and allowed her to tackle new works and projects others found more difficult.

My parents are both musicians so they’ve always been on me to learn music theory. And I’ve heard from people I’ve done workshops with that it’s important to be able to sight read/learn music quickly when auditioning professionally. I took AP music theory this year, and I’ve improved a LOT even though it’s a wicked hard class (and I like math!). Before I could read music decently, and I have perfect pitch which helps, but now I understand it so much better. I just had my first music rehearsal with a theatre company I haven’t been involved with in a couple of years, and the difference is huge. That said, AP music theory was a miserable time and I’m pretty sure no one in the class has above a B-. HA HA.

Sightsinging is a great skill to have! What I realized this school year is that the classes that The D struggled in the most were slightly different versions of the same thing–sightsinging, theory and piano. These classes are part of the curriculum in many many MT programs. As much as you can expose your daughter to reading music and understanding it, the better for her.

Btw I am very much an actor first as I was not blessed with a naturally beautiful voice, and I resisted like crazy when my parents tried to teach me theory. I was like “but ACTING is the core of MT, music is a tool to help tell the story!” Which I still think it is, but any music skill you have makes telling the story so much easier. And I don’t play an instrument either…especially piano! I had to learn to read bass clef this year.

D took Music Theory senior year. in high school It was not as accelerated as the AP class offered in her school. But by the time she had to audition for some programs/ scholarships in the late fall/ early spring of senior year, she saw a real difference in her skill level. By the time she took the placement exam at NYU in music therapy during freshman orientation, she was able to skip the first level music theory class which opened up space for another elective class. D was by no means a music theory genius. But taking even a non-AP version of theory paid off.

Some schools focus more on theory than others. I imagine schools where the degree is BM (like BW, OCU etc) will have larger focus there- and if any of those are on your list you might want to get a start now. D had a friend accepted to a BM school who could barely read music (but has a crazy great voice) …and they REALLY struggled their 1st year

I can’t emphasize enough how important it is to be able to sight read music and understand music theory if planning a career in MT. Yes, BFA or BM students will get this training in their college program, but just like any other area (voice, dance, acting), the more training you have prior to college, the better.

My MT daughter had/has a thorough understanding of music theory and has since a young age. This was never with a MT career in mind. Simply, both my kids studied two instruments each, one being piano, from a young age. Their piano teacher was very big on theory and gave the kids homework in it. As well, sight reading music was part of that training and part of a national evaluation they had each year on piano. Both of them also were in band and jazz band. My MT daughter did not take Music Theory in high school. Whatever she knows is simply from studying instrumental music, namely piano the most. I suppose in Chorus class in HS, there was some music theory, but by then, my D knew it from her piano teacher anyway. Skip ahead to entering her BFA in MT program at Tisch when she was 16, and on the first day, she placed out of the two full years (four semesters) requirement of Music Theory, and so she never took it in college, but most of her classmates had to.

I also recall my D’s first professional audition in NYC right before she turned 11. The audition required her to sight read difficult music right on the spot. The composer was the auditor and remarked how quickly she picked it up. She was cast.

In college and beyond, she easily sight reads new music and this also comes in handy for auditions when you may be given music you have never seen before with less than 24 hours to go to your audition appointment.

Further, being so competent at reading and understanding music, and being able to play piano in particular, came in handy in college for accompanying herself, others, musical productions, and musical directing. She had many paid jobs doing those things for youth programs, high school MT programs and BFA programs, though she on longer does those survival jobs. While she never studied music composition, all her instrumental lessons over the years growing up gave her such a good understanding of music that she is now a professional songwriter and also a MT composer/lyricist, in addition to being a MT performer. Further, she has now been in quite a number of professional musicals that have required her to play an instrument (she plays piano and accordion in several musicals as an actor/singer, and can play some guitar too as she took guitar lessons in high school too). So, being able to play an instrument has been instrumental (LOL) in being cast lately in quite a number of Equity productions.

I am sharing this anecdote because I can’t tell you how handy it has been that my D had such an understanding of music prior to college. So, I do suggest both piano lessons and studying of music theory as wonderful prep for not only a college MT program, but for a career in this field.

Well I guess that settles that lol, not sure what to do about it she gets so little at school. I don’t even foresee us fitting in piano lessons with show scheduled at school and rehearsals ugh…

All of the above is true, however it isn’t part of the audition process at most schools. At some there is a placement test at the time of the audition (D’s school had a piano placement test first week of school). Piano and music theory is part of the BFA curriculum. If your D has some prior training that is great, but please don’t allow her lack of proficiency in this area to add to the stress of this process!

Well thanks @austinmt for the boost as I am about a stress basket about all this to begin with ! LOL She is not totally ignorant of the theory stuff, just not proficient by any means. I try not to load her down with too much as her curriculum at her school is difficult enough & with shows and rehearsals there is little time for anything else after school. So…yikes @soozievt we are way behind you if your D started college at 16…lol my D is just turning 16 this summer & is in 11th grade…your post is making me think we need to pack it in and move onto a nursing career…lol

I view this as any of the skills a potential performer has in their arsenal - the more the better! That said, in my opinion, a weakness in one area won’t break a career if you truly shine in other areas. I bet there are plenty of successful performers who can’t sight read well, much as there are famous opera singers who don’t speak lines particularly well, succesful MTs who don’t dance well, etc. It’s a big profession, with many varied career paths aided by many different skill sets.

Our D happens to have a very solid background in music theory, and her ability to sight read has made her well suited to new works and endears her to music directors, but in other areas that some might deem critical she’s not as strong, It’s a diverse industry, so I wouldn’t view a weakness in any single skill as a deal breaker, particularly in high school.

If I am correct (remembering an interview) - Ramin Karimloo can’t read music…

My D had the little bit of theory that being in band provided (e.g. Not much). She is in a BM program = lots of theory Before her freshman year even started, BW sent a link to an online theory module. It was a series of timed exercises that basically taught recognizing notes/key signatures/intervals etc. by sight. Although she complained the entire time this module ate up part of her precious summer… She said the other day that it was incredibly helpful as a foundation for Starting her theory classes. So, I would look online for something similar. She has held her own in theory. She has strengths and weaknesses, but so far has done reasonably well.

Thanks @kategrizz I will look into an online thing also. That would be easier then trying to fit in piano, although she would love to take piano. Yes, I agree also that everyone has strengths in some things and not others. My D’s mainstrength is her voice. She is a great actress also and improves all the time. Dance is a bit weaker but still getting better all the time. Theory will just be another thing she will have to work at. She is not going to school for a BM or anything in strictly vocal performance so that is good I guess, so she definitely needs to know a lot but not as much as someone in that major.

You also might be able to find a piano teacher or a music grad student at local college conservatory who could do private lessons over the summer. Is there at teacher at her PA HS who would be willing to do that? A voice teacher may be able to work on some basic skills and sight singing. Online classes or iphone apps might help too. Like you and D don’t already have enough on your plates. . .

This might sound silly, but there are several APPS for learning to sightread available in the Apple APP store.

Freshmen at Viterbo have to take two semesters of music theory and one semester of piano proficiency. A dedicated sight-singing class is also recommended (though sight-singing is covered in our freshman theory classes). I recently auditioned for a new Toronto Fringe Festival musical and remarked to my parents how helpful my sight-singing skills were in getting through the audition/callback process. I ended up getting an offer (although I can’t accept it, unfortunately, because of the summer program I’m doing this year)–music theory pays off in a big way!

I’ve had theory training ever since I was young (I’ve played piano on and off for 9 years) and I truly think I would be lost without it. You have to think about how much it would cost (in dollars and in intangibles) you to be out in the world trying to make a living as a performer if you did not have music theory skills. If you can’t read music, you can’t teach yourself the material you have to prepare for your audition, which means hiring an accompanist to record the vocal line for you. If you’re updating your book frequently and going in for new projects consistently, that’s an expensive prospect. Furthermore, learning a song from the cast recording (if one exists) just doesn’t cut it–in an audition, you definitely want to sing what’s on the page (this often applies to reading rhythms) unless you’re told otherwise or unless it’s a very strong, justified acting choice.

Of course, there are always going to be those success stories (like Ramin Karimloo) who don’t know how to read music…but they’re the exception, not the rule.

I did not take AP Music Theory in high school, but I did try to brush up on theory prior to going to college (although frankly, if it had been allowed, I would have been able to test out of both semesters of theory, and I will test out of piano proficiency this fall). There are lots of dedicated theory workbooks that can be found at music stores. Although a more expensive option than apps, perhaps, they tend to be a little more comprehensive.