<p>My son will be a senior in high school in the fall. He has been studying cello since the age of 8. He has worked had and had some successes–first chair in his All State Orchestra for two years, first chair in his youth orchestra, first chair in the World Youth Symphony at Interlochen, and the recipient of the merit based Emerson Scholarship this summer at Interlochen. In addition, he has a good academic record and is a member of the NHS with a GPA over 3.9. He can’t imagine pursuing anything in life other than cello and will be applying to music schools this fall (ones that he has a decent chance of getting into with strong programs). He is developing his list of potential colleges and is struggling with finding good middle level music schools. He has one safety–our state university, which has a good cello professor. He is also deciding whether he would like to attend a conservatory or a music school within a university–like Eastman. Any advice from veterans would be greatly appreciated!</p>
<p>Welcome, 2015. You will get great advice from the experts on this forum. They helped me a lot over my D’s college career.</p>
<p>Welcome! Do know that Eastman is considered a stand alone conservatory and not a music school within a university. Bienen, Shepard, Jacobs, Thornton for instance, are examples of a music school within a university. There is usually easier and fuller access to the full range of academics in those settings, as opposed to a conservatory.</p>
<p>Thank you! This is our first time navigating the college admissions process for music. My oldest son went into engineering.</p>
<p>Hello, everyone! I am a rising senior in high school and will be applying to dual-degree programs (or as a double major, whichever is applicable) in the fall. I play the clarinet at a pretty high level - currently studying with a professor at the University of Michigan - but I also have great grades + scores, and my parents want me to continue expanding my base of general knowledge, as well as get a full college (as opposed to conservatory) experience, so that’s why I won’t be just majoring in music. I’ll be applying to the University of Michigan (LSA + School of Music), Harvard-NEC, Columbia-Juilliard, Yale, and Princeton (I’d do a certificate in performance there). If anyone has any advice about applying or actually being a double major/degree student, I would appreciate it!</p>
<p>Hi clarinetkid. My S applied dual-degree last year. You’ll get lots of good advice from the many experienced students and parents on this forum, and I only know the application process at this point, but I will start the conversation. One caveat I would make about the Harvard-NEC and the Columbia-Juilliard plan would be to investigate the difficulty of even getting into a program like that. We considered those possibilities and quickly ruled them out. For each, one must first get into highly selective institutions independently (nothing to sneeze at!) and then get admitted to the joint program. Seemed like far too much work, applications, and cost for far too slim a chance. I would recommend a visit and a long chat with admissions of all joint programs. The two big questions to ask are 1) how hard is it to get in and 2) how much help will you get from the institutions if you get in. The H-NEC and C-J,Y,P programs rely upon you, the student, to make two institutions work. I would recommend you add Peabody-Johns Hopkins, University of Rochester and Eastman, Oberlin, and Bard to your list, as they are schools that have a tangible commitment to dual-degree students. Best of luck!</p>
<p>dec51995- thank you for the information. I understand the difficulty of getting into those programs, but with Michigan - a top school both academically and musically - as my backup (in-state, already studying with a professor), it seems that those are the only ones “worth” it for the boost in academics. After all, the reason my parents want me to dual-degree is so that I’m not just practicing all day. I’ve considered the schools you suggested (especially Peabody + Johns Hopkins and Oberlin), but my parents think that I wouldn’t be academically challenged enough / it wouldn’t be worth the extra tuition over Michigan.</p>
<p>The part about making two institutions work is very interesting. Perhaps it will be better to choose a place like Yale, where the music culture at the school itself is very much alive. I have to get first, of course :P</p>
<p>Thanks again for your advice! If anyone else has anything to add I would really appreciate it.</p>
<p>Clarinetkid: Glad to help. You might check out similar threads on this question or start a new one to get more advice. Read this oft-cited, informative article to get a handle on the terms (dual-degree versus double major) and the requirements of a music major:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html</a></p>
<p>I’d also recommend that you use this summer to visit as many schools as possible. You will want to get in sample lessons with faculty at the conservatories you are applying to, and many teachers are away at festivals for the summer. S did sample lessons junior year and at the end of August before his senior year. I’d also recommend this fabulous thread from CC to get an idea of all that is involved in conservatory applications and auditions:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-to-be-music-major-one-family-s-experience.html”>http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-to-be-music-major-one-family-s-experience.html</a></p>
<p>Finally, what is your present teacher advising? He/she could be your best resource. S’s teacher was invaluable for knowing college programs, making faculty recommendations, etc.</p>
<p>@ClarinetKid - also note that the Harvard program is a BA/MM which is quite different. Three years at Harvard with a private lesson at NEC then you leave Harvard early and finish the final two years at NEC. This limits you in your choice of grad programs. You should also look into Tufts/NEC which is a more traditional double-degree program: BA/BM.</p>
<p>@SpiritManager - is doing a BA/MM limiting to the point that just doing a double major/concentration (one BA degree) and taking private lessons on the side would be better? I haven’t done much research beyond the undergraduate level, so I never really though about what would come after the 5-year program.</p>
<p>clarinetkid, Double majors or double degree programs are undergraduate degrees. With a BA/MM setup you end up with both an undergraduate AND a graduate degree at the end of the 5 years. I think SpiritManager means “limiting” in that your grad school choice is already made by the time you start your freshman year (i.e. Harvard-NEC). For some people this works great. Others prefer a change of teacher and institution for grad school programs. </p>
<p>dec51995 makes a good point–have you had lessons with the clarinet teachers at each school? Have you visited the schools? I think it’s very important to find schools that would be the best fit for you, rather than just coming up with a list of schools that you think are more academically challenging. If you’re going to double major, what would be your second major? Do you have other interests/passions besides music? That’s also something to keep in mind when deciding where to apply. There are many more schools that would provide you with academically and musically challenging programs than just the Ivies.</p>
<p>You sound like you’re absolutely certain of gaining admission to Michigan. That’s good, because you need to have safety schools on your list. But everything else you list are “reach” schools–I think it would be wise to have a few in the middle as well–unless you’re sure Michigan is the place for you and would be fine with only that one choice, if that’s the way it works out.</p>
<p>@ClarinetKid - I agree with @Clarimom - there are many many more schools than just the Ivies which would be challenging academically and musically. Bard and Oberlin, for example, despite having higher admit rates than a Yale or Princeton, will challenge you just as much - unless the field you’re looking into for a second degree is one which benefits from being part of a large research institution - such as for one poster on here this year who chose Michigan over other great options for its Korean Studies department. My son, who did attend Bard, had the grades, resume, and scores to get in anywhere (and the folks on here know I’m not bragging at this point), and he had a terrific experience at Bard - both from his professors and his peers. I’m sure he would have had an equally great experience at Oberlin. As for admission to grad school - he only applied to one school (Yale) and he was admitted. So going to Bard did not negatively impact his future path!</p>
<p>@Clarimom and @SpiritManager, I apologize if it seems like I am shooting down the “in-between” schools you guys are suggesting. Allow me to clarify my situation. I want to just major in clarinet performance, but my parents think that would close too many doors, especially because I am a good student. Because my non-music degree is serving as a “backup,” they feel that any dual programs I am considering should be at least as strong as Michigan academically. Given the relatively high cost of the “in-between” programs like JHU + Peabody vs. in-state tuition for Michigan, it seems that the only programs “worth it” are the Ivy ones that also give great financial aid (and Michigan! I love U-M, by the way; I would be totally fine going there) - please correct me if I’m wrong about any of this!</p>
<p>Regarding the actual Ivy League programs, I would appreciate any advice about handling the whole double-major vs dual degree thing: for example, Yale BA double major (taking lessons on the side) vs. Yale BA/MM vs Princeton certificate program, etc. I am interested in economics, statistics, or something related to public policy for my non-music major/degree.</p>
<p>Note: I don’t want to portray my parents as prestige-mongers. I think that the reason they want me to double major / dual degree is so that I am having as rich of a college experience as possible, not for the sake of getting two degrees, and they feel that this will best be achieved at the schools I mentioned (as do I in this aspect - to be honest, I am hesitant about attending a small school like Bard. SpiritManager, if you could elaborate on your son’s experience, that would be great; looking at Bard’s admissions profile it seems that a student with top scores in high school would still be at the top among their peers at that college).</p>
<p>Thank you guys so much for your help! Again, I’m really sorry if it seems like I’m being difficult - hopefully my clarifications made sense.</p>
<p>clarinetkid, sent you a PM.</p>
<p>ClarinetKid - please start a separate thread for this discussion. This particular thread is really just for introductions.</p>
<p>Hi, everybody. Just dropping in here to introduce myself. I’ve posted on these fora a few times this spring but just realized I’d never introduced myself. I’m the mother of a rising h.s. junior, a D who is a soprano. She also plays the piano, but voice is her first instrument. She sings in a unique ensemble with a demanding schedule and a fair amount of visibility and has just finished her first session at a summer music festival. The college search looms. Her dad and I are trying to get her to think about whether she wants to major in music (she is also interested in film, and maybe engineering) and if so, which flavor of degree and in what environment. To make matters more complicated, she is not a tip-top student overall (best subjects are math, music, and foreign language), and will also require a healthy amount of FA. I have found these boards to be very helpful thus far and suspect I will be posting more in the coming year as we navigate this complicated terrain. </p>
<p>Hi All, parent of rising junior violinist looking toward dual BM/BA degrees and thought I’d start panicking…er, preparing… early. We are familiar with many, though I’m sure not all, of the music-school-within-university programs, as well as places like Oberlin, and schools with close collaborations like Eastman/Rochester and JHU/Peabody. DV has read the Peabody’s excellent admissions website that discusses dual degrees, so we have a bit of an idea what we’re getting into. We’ve started to put an audition repertoire chart together, since it does not seem that much changes. DV started playing violin at age 8, and is thoroughly immersed. Currently at a 6-week chamber/orchestral program. DV is a tip-top student and does not want to give up pursuit of language study (particularly French). It seems there are many options, and it’s a little overwhelming. Perhaps most overwhelming of all is that, if one just “runs the numbers,” it seems virtually impossible to get into so many of the conservatories/music schools that are bruited about here. So, we will be lurking loads and picking brains where appropriate.</p>
<p>Welcome @listenmissy. My son just completed a double degree at Bard and I’ll be apply to share observations of what a double degree entails. Btw. he’s also chosen a grad school where he can continue his academics along with his music.</p>
<p>THank you @SpiritManager. I would love to hear more about it. I have been reading through the many, many CC threads from past years, but so many are old (5+ years) and I admit I find these boards sometimes hard to navigate. Well, not so much hard to navigate, as hard to sift through. I don’t yet have enough posts to PM but as soon as I do, I will! Bard is such an interesting place, and the idea of traveling through 5 years of dual-degree studies with students who are ALL doing the same thing (on the conservatory side) has tremendous appeal. OTOH, since it’s the only one, and since it’s SO small, we would not put all (or even most of) our eggs in the Bard basket.</p>
<p>Hello all!! I am the mom of a rising junior (daughter) who is primarily a soprano vocalist, but also is an instrumentalist (french horn, piano). She has been studying music since she was 4 and has found her musical passion in classical vocal performance. She is also a very strong student academically. We have started the college search / investigation project in earnest and have been lurking around here for a while. Thanks to all for the incredibly helpful information posted here!! There is so much to read that it is overwhelming at times, which is why I have decided to begin asking my own questions. My apologies if I start threads on topics that have already been discussed in detail – just point me to the appropriate places.</p>
<p>We live in southeastern PA and are primarily looking at east coast schools - would like her to be no more than about a 6-7 hour drive from home (of course so we can go see all those performances and recitals :-).</p>
<p>DD has participated in Ithaca College’s Summer Music Academy - Opera/Musical Theater track for the past two summers. The program is excellent and she LOVES Ithaca – she will definitely be auditioning for their program but we aren’t sure how strong it is for vocal performance as they are much more “known” as a top school for music education. Any comments about your experiences with Ithaca for performance majors would be welcome.</p>
<p>Thank you!!</p>