My Blues About Medical School, Opinions Please!!!

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Wow, so this place is fantastic and is filled with wonderful information! Just wanted to say that...so on to my vent/rant/call for help.</p>

<p>I have tons of questions and I'm praying someone here will help me out!</p>

<p>I'm 21, not sure what year of college I'm in, mostly due to changing my major twice and taking 2 semesters off. I like medicine and I love helping people. I have no idea if I would love waking-up everyday and working as a doctor, but I want to say that's because I've never experienced it. I know I would be okay getting into medical school with the volunteering aspect, because, well, I love volunteering. Any kind actually! </p>

<p>But I have major odds against me because I don't like math. I do well in it, A's and B's throughout high school and now college(although I struggle sometimes and work hard for it!!), but I wouldn't shed a single tear if I didn't have to do math again for the rest of my life. What's your opinion on that and me fitting with medical school? I feel like, someone who's looking to pursue an MD should be great at math and it should come easy to them. That's definitely not me.</p>

<p>Second question is, how do you go about shadowing doctors in a hospital? I thought you'd have to have some sort of degree to do that, but then again that doesn't seem right. What exactly would I be allowed to do with the doctor?</p>

<p>Third question, lets say I major in something completely left field of Biology or anything to do with medicine but do the Pre-Med track. What are my chances of getting into medical school?</p>

<p>Fourth, like I said I'm not sure what year I am in college, but I'm 21 and I started college when I was 18. Will this majorly affect my chances of getting into medical school, even if I have logical explanations as to why?</p>

<p>Lastly, this really isn't a question, more of a poll. How many hours do you all take each semester? My hours fluctuate so much that I've gone below full time a couple of times. The highest I've gone is 15 hours and only one or two were Science classes, and it was SO stressful!</p>

<p>I know whoever pursues medical school should be 100% for it, but I don't know that I am? I'd hate to say I'm not, because I've always had this interest in medicine, just never really pursued it. But I have my second guesses on majoring in Biology quite frequently.</p>

<p>Ok, I'm sorry this is so long, but I feel like everyone here can give me some valuable advice. Thanks.</p>

2

<p>As for your first question, you only need math through Calculus for med school. As long as you can get through that (and whatever math you need to pass your science courses), you're golden.</p>

<p>Next, you asked about shadowing. You don't need a degree to do this; I'm sure many physicians would be more than happy to accommodate you if you asked. It's a very important part of deciding if medicine is right for you, and should probably be one of your first steps.</p>

<p>About major, you can major in anything without hurting you chances at med school. Read some of the stickied threads at the top of the forum for more info.</p>

<p>About your age, keep in mind that the average age of first year med students is something like 24yrs old (I think). If you have a logical explanation for why you are going through college slowly, you should be OK.</p>

<p>As for your last question... it really should depend on what the "normal" amount is at your school. What is the average course load there? Are you doing at least that much?</p>

<p>Other members of this forum will likely be far more helpful than me, wait and see what kinds of other replies you get. Good luck!</p>

3

<p>After reading your post again, I just want to reiterate a few things:</p>

<p>1.) You don't have to be in love with math to become a doctor.
2.) You don't have to major in biology or go with a "traditional" pre-med route.
3.) You need to experience medicine first hand through shadowing, internships, volunteering, etc. before you can know if it really is right for you. Of course you're not 100% committed to something you've never experienced; that would be crazy!</p>

4

<p>1) Math, especially advanced level math is not a required skill. If you can do some mental math - add, subtract, multiply and divide - that's about all you need to know. A lot of drug dosing is in micrograms/kilogram, and this calculation is the most common math I do on a given day - take patient's weight in pounds, convert it to kilograms, multiply that by the given dose and figure out what tablet (if it's a pill) best fits our needs. There are plenty of other things that require math, but nothing that is much more difficult than what I've just outlined. The most mathematically challenging field is nephrology - there's all sorts of math involved with the kidneys (my ex-gf loves math and as such wants to be a nephrologist).</p>

<p>2) It's usually easier to shadow doctors in their offices, and then volunteer in a hospital.</p>

<p>3) I majored in sociology (and did so from my first day of college onwards). That's certainly not bio. There are definitely things I learned in Soc that have helped make me a better medical student and will make me a better physician in the end. Major doesn't matter and the stats from the AAMC back this up.</p>

<p>4) Your class standing isn't that much of an issue as you have a reason for being "behind" due to switching your major. Medical schools can certainly understand that not everyone has it all figured out from the beginning (you're like the anti-me). There shouldn't be a penalty against you for not having your life planned out. As entadus mentioned, the average age of M1's is not 22. It changes from year to year but is always 24 or 25, so getting in at that point in your life means you aren't behind.</p>

<p>5) Credit hours are a touchy thing, and they likely don't matter as much as we make them out to mean, but the best rule of thumb is to do the average at your school. However, given that you've been changing majors and may be behind in fulfilling your graduation requirements, your major requirements, and your pre-med requirements, it's probably a good idea to bump your course load so that you're not stuck there forever. What's average at your school should become your minimum course load.</p>

<p>6) Keep in mind other options that are medically related - Physician's Assistant is a great career choice that has better hours, shorter education requirements and no residency when you're finished. They have to practice under the supervision of an MD, but a lot of them are very autonomous. While they generally go into primary care fields (general internists, pediatricians, etc) I have friends who are PA's in Anesthesiology, ENT, Peds Ortho, Gen Surgery, and Urology, so if you have an interest in a particular field you can certainly explore that specialty.</p>

5

<p>I hated Math. I was good at it, but never really liked having to take math. I took it in the days where one did not have a graphing calculator in college, let alone high school. But I doubt that would have changed it for me. You won't need math above Calculus. Stats is good to have a basic understanding of, but its not really "math." From a math standpoint you will be fine.</p>

<p>For shadowing, start by calling the medical staff office at your local hospital, and ask if they have a formal program. If not, ask who the doctors are that take a student along. Most hospital medical staff offices will know that, because the docs have to get permissions, etc. If you are at a location with a med school, call dean of students and ask about it. If you are not, call your own dean of students, or similar office. Your college has probably helped place a student with a physician for a day, a week, an afternoon a month. Or call the doctors that treat your family about doing it for a week over the summer if you will be home.</p>

6

<p>You need good grades in math to get INTO medical school. You need no math past the junior high level to PRACTICE medicine. If you can fill out a tax return, you have all the math you need. It is helpful if someone wanted to invoke elementary (8th grade) algebra or (7th grade) geometry to explain something that you would understand it. But not necessary. Look through some top medical journals, like the New England Journal. No equations to be found.</p>

<p>I am in a mathy niche of medicine, and I learned long ago not to offer a mathematical explanation to a physician. They not only will not understand, they get mad. And I am talking about high school math here. Most doctors cannot help their 11th grade children with their math homework. </p>

<p>So don't worry. If you do reasonably well in your one year of calculus, you are fine for med school admissions. You passed what you actually need for medicine years ago.</p>

<p>Your college premed advisor should be able to help with finding opportunities to learn more about medicine. From what you have said, and assuming your grades are in range, this is by far the most important thing. Do not apply to medical school unless you are sure you want to go. Med schools prefer students who are sure, and they understand that lots of people take some time to decide.</p>

7

<p>Oh my goodness, I am so thankful for this discussion forum! I appreciate everyones advice :) I have a few replies though, not to anyone in particular, so please feel free to reply!</p>

<p>I'm taking Pre-Calculus right now and plan on taking Calculus during the summer, assuming I pass Pre-Cal! But what I'm hearing from everyone here that Calculus is the most important math class. That scares me! Pre-Cal is already scaring me and I'm only a few weeks into the class. So should I base my attending medical school on if I fail (I doubt I will, but I never say never) or pass Pre-Cal? What if I get a C in both Pre-Cal and Calculus?</p>

<p>I know everyone said that doing the Pre-Med track, instead of actually majoring in some sort of science, will not hurt my chances to get into medical school, but somehow that still worries me. My career choice, aside from medicine, would be fashion (I know, they are complete opposites! Don't laugh!). So if I majored in a fashion field and took my pre-med track courses, do you still think I would be ok getting into medical school? I feel like that wouldn't be the best idea, but that's my only other career choice, and I'd hate to do science and then decide against medical school and have nothing to fall back on.</p>

<p>I knew mental math was important in medicine, but wasn't sure of the difficulty. I'm ok with easy mental math, meaning: 10-5= 5 or 9x4= 36 or 48/4= 12 but if I have to do anything more difficult than that, then I like to have a calculator handy. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'm somewhat of a perfectionist and I want to know 100% I am right. And I have no idea how to convert pounds over to kilograms. I guess I better learn!</p>

<p>I looked in being a PA, because I'm not so into the 12 years of schooling with medical school. I basically found out that the years practically even out. To get into PA school, you've had to have at least 4-5 years experience in the health field (most people who apply are nurses). I have no interest in nursing or research (I'm not exactly sure what this entails, but it didn't sound enticing). Then you have 2-1/2 years of PA school. That's almost 8 years. So I figured why not just continue on the path to medical school?</p>

<p>I'm at a community college right now, until I can get in-state tuition to attend NC State. So I doubt they have a Pre-Med counselor, actually I'm pretty positive they don't. So do you suggest I contact NC State's Pre-Med people even though I don't attend there yet? I'm not sure if I should go through a school to get a shadowing opportunity or just to contact a hospital or an office myself? There are so many hospitals around here (Duke, UNC, Wake Med), how do you even decide which place to shadow at?!</p>

<p>Well thanks to everyone here I have basically found out that I have a chance of getting into medical school and I'm just being a big baby about it haha!</p>

<p>AFAN, this: "I am in a mathy niche of medicine, and I learned long ago not to offer a mathematical explanation to a physician. They not only will not understand, they get mad. And I am talking about high school math here. Most doctors cannot help their 11th grade children with their math homework" made me laugh and made me feel better haha!</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
I looked in being a PA, because I'm not so into the 12 years of schooling with medical school. I basically found out that the years practically even out. To get into PA school, you've had to have at least 4-5 years experience in the health field (most people who apply are nurses). I have no interest in nursing or research (I'm not exactly sure what this entails, but it didn't sound enticing). Then you have 2-1/2 years of PA school. That's almost 8 years. So I figured why not just continue on the path to medical school?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is plainly incorrect. I personally know of dozens of people who were admitted directly after completing their undergraduate degrees. Make sure that you're distinguishing between PA and Nurse Practioners/Nurse Anesthetists (in which case they do usually have several years experience prior to starting more schooling - CRNA requires 3 years of ICU nursing experience).</p>

9

<p>Really? That's interesting! Everywhere I went for information they all said most people who are admitted and apply to PA school have had 4-5 years experience. Well that changes a few things. I may have to look into PA school more seriously.</p>

<p>Well, from that, do you (or anyone) know anything about PA school? What undergrads usually major in to get into PA school? I've never heard of a PA-track, like the pre-med track. </p>

<p>I'm going to be annoying everyone here for awhile with all of my questions, I'm sorry! I appreciate your help so much though!</p>

10

<p>AAPA</a> Home</p>

<p><a href="http://www.aapa.org/research/2006StudentCensusRegionalReport.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aapa.org/research/2006StudentCensusRegionalReport.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Says 48% were Bio majors, 10% were Psych, but 44% had some other major (doesn't add up to 100% b/c individuals could list more than one major).</p>

<p>You'll likely need to examine individual PA schools to check their entrance requirements. I'm not sure how uniform those requirements are, but the PA program at my medical school requires the following</p>

<p>4 hours Gen bio
4 hours Human Anatomy
4 hours Human Phys
4 hours Microbiology</p>

<p>8 hours General/Inorganic Chem
4 hours Organic Chem
4 hours Biochem</p>

<p>3 hours intro psych
3 hours abnormal psych
3 hours psych elective (school encourages lifespan/developmental psych)</p>

<p>3 hours Stats
Minimum of College Algebra highly encouraged</p>

<p>6 hours english composition</p>

11

<p>I found this for Duke's PA program...</p>

<p>A minimum of 1,000 hours of patient care experience is required with direct, "hands-on" patient contact (e.g., EMT or paramedic, health educator, RN, patient care attendant or nurse's aide, clinic assistant, Peace Corps volunteer or other cross-cultural health care experience, technologist, therapist, clinical research assistant, etc.). 1,000 hours of patient care experience must be completed no later than October 1, 2007.</p>

<p>The following types of experience are NOT accepted toward the 1,000 hours of patient care experience: PA or physician observer or shadow, non-clinical research assistant positions, student clinical experience (student nurse, student EMT, student athletic trainer, or other health care student), student "intern" experiences, candy striper or junior volunteer positions, CPR or ACLS instructor, wilderness medicine instructor, patient transporter, pharmaceutical representative, ski patroller, life guard, aerobics instructor, unit clerk, insurance clerk, medical secretary or other clerical positions.</p>

<p>This is what I'm talking about. I was planning on volunteering at a local hospital, possibly even Duke, but it said that "junior volunteer positions" aren't acceptable to meet requirements for the PA program. So, I'm not sure how I would get the 1,000 hours experience? Is there a section on this discussion forum for PA school?</p>

12

<p>I find that surprisingly exact. I think the easiest way around this is to get your Certified Nursing Assistant certification. Then you just have this as your job (you get paid), and it'll count towards those hours. You could work 20 hours a week for a year, and you'd be at 1000.</p>

13

<p>Well even though the discussion has sortof moved on I feel compelled to respond to the original post. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I do well in it, A's and B's throughout high school and now college(although I struggle sometimes and work hard for it!!), but I wouldn't shed a single tear if I didn't have to do math again for the rest of my life. What's your opinion on that and me fitting with medical school? I feel like, someone who's looking to pursue an MD should be great at math and it should come easy to them. That's definitely not me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>as has been mentioned you certainly don't need to know much math for medicine but leave it to the biomedical engineer (me) to tell you that there is a complex mathematical aspect to medicine and physiology and having the ability to understand that would make you a better doctor and would open many doors.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What exactly would I be allowed to do with the doctor?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>the short answer is nothing. you mostly watch....you technically aren't allowed to touch a patient without some sort of clinical training. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Fourth, like I said I'm not sure what year I am in college, but I'm 21 and I started college when I was 18. Will this majorly affect my chances of getting into medical school, even if I have logical explanations as to why?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>though your explanations may be logical are they must be valid.</p>

14

<p>Shraf, feel free to comment on anything! I could keep this topic going forever (which I might haha!).</p>

<p>Bigredmed, 1 out of the 4 PA schools in North Carolina does not require any clinical experience. And 1 recommends it, but does not require it. I will look into the Nursing Assistant, but I'd hate for that to interfere with my school work. I know you said you knew people who were accepted straight from undergrad without experience, would you be able to tell me where these PA programs were? I'm just curious! I'm looking out of state, also, but mostly in state. Thanks, you've been extremely helpful!</p>

15

<p>1000 hours of clinical experience is not that much. It's six months of full-time work. Go CNA, do a year and exceed their requirements, and then hit PA. Actually, I would not be surprised if it becomes helpful to think of it as volunteering.</p>

16

<p>I wish I could do full-time! That would be great to exceed the requirements. But I'm definitely not one of those people that can work full-time and go to school full-time.... I hate that about myself!</p>

<p>The CNA seems like a popular route, so I may do that. Thanks everyone!</p>

<p>I'm open to endless amounts of advice!</p>

17

<p>1.) It is helpful but not crucial to be good at math, and certainly nobody cares whether you can do calculus. See examples giving by BRM and afan. They are involved in the remainder of your premed coursework, however.</p>

<p>You will need to be able to do harder math than what you mentioned in post #7 -- but not hideously harder. If a drug needs to be given at .7 mg/kg, and your patient is 123 pounds, how much do you need to give her? (Well, divide 123 by 2.2, and then multiply by .7.)</p>

<p>2.) NC State is unlikely to have a premedical advising team at all, actually.</p>

<p>3.) So long as your major is academic, you should be fine for medical school. Fashion is NOT academic. That WOULD harm you.</p>

<p>4.) You need to get your courseload in order. You need to stay full-time and frankly a little above it.</p>

<p>5.) Try to avoid taking your premed prereqs at the community college. One student on these boards (also from NC) specifically mentioned that many medical schools will flat-out refuse to accept prereqs taken there. You can imagine that the remainder are not pleased about it.</p>

<p>6.) Of course, Entadus's comment is really the most important one:

[quote]
You need to experience medicine first hand through shadowing, internships, volunteering, etc. before you can know if it really is right for you. Of course you're not 100% committed to something you've never experienced; that would be crazy!

[/quote]
</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
I'm definitely not one of those people that can work full-time and go to school full-time....

[/quote]
Well, or you could just do it full-time for a year. Sure, it'll slow you down by one year, but that's hardly the end of the world.</p>

19

<p>Awesome, I'm really excited about shadowing actually. I love hospitals and being in them (I'm weird, I know) and the environment!</p>

<p>I could suck it up and do full-time for a year but I would be ****ed if it started interfering with my school! I've never had a full-time job in my life, or one longer than 5 months at that. You must be one of those people that has always had a job?</p>

20

<p>No, I mean -- graduate and work for a year. No need to balance work/school if you're not in an insane hurry.</p>