My Chances At Harvard University (excluding standardized test scores) - PLEASE READ!

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>Name: Chinwe
Sex: Female
Age: barely 15</p>

<p>So, I've only just completed my first year of high school. My current cumulative GPA is 3.50 UW. By Ivy standards, that's subpar. I'm fully aware of that. What I'm asking is what are my chances, given my current situation, of being accepted into Harvard University for my undergraduate education?</p>

<p>Some things you should know about my prospective sophomore year (keep in mind that I do go to a public high school, so there aren't as many opportunities to excel):
Classes:
- Advanced Journalism
- Accelerated Sophomore English
- AP European History
- Honors Chemistry
- Geometry (mathematics is my Kryptonite. I took Algebra I twice.)
- Leadership/Student Council (I'm 10th Grade Treasurer)
- Spanish 1-2</p>

<p>Junior Year
- Honors English
- AP United States History
- Honors Biology
- Algebra II w/Trig or Honors Precalculus
- Leadership/Student Council
- Spanish 3-4 or Spanish 5-6</p>

<p>Senior Year
- AP English Literature
- AP Economics/Government
- AP Calculus B/C or AP Statistics
- Leadership/Student Council (hopefully Student Body President)
- AP Spanish
- AP Biology or AP Chemistry</p>

<p>Co-Curriculars/Clubs:
Interact
Key Club
Journalism Club
NAHS
NHS (though I'm not sure when I can apply)</p>

<p>Community Service Hours: 2-4 hours a week for a year
Types of Service:
- Community Service Expedition to Nicaragua or India (Junior Year)
- Tutoring
- Helping teachers after school
- (any suggestions???)</p>

<p>Sports:
Track & Field
Basketball
Volleyball</p>

<p>Hopeful Honors/Awards:
Presidential Service Award (Gold)
Jefferson Award
Academic Department Award</p>

<p>Other Activities:
Academic Decathlon (maybe)</p>

<p>As far as my hook goes, I have several:
- I have a low SES (I'm African-American and come from a low-to-moderate income family)
- I have a profound interest in literature (I've been writing short stories since I was 3 or 4)
- I am the only U.S. citizen in my entire family
- I've research the disciplines of sociology and Western philosophy during my spare time
- I have a heavy appreciation of my Nigerian heritage
- I had tough domestic situation from early childhood (won't go into detail)
- I'm a self-starter</p>

<p>It's been my DREAM to go to Harvard University for my undergraduate and graduate education for about two years now. I will do whatever it takes from this point onward to make sure I have a well-rounded application by senior year. I am fully aware that I cannot afford making the same mistakes I made freshman year ever again. I really need some advice. If you have any suggestions on classes I should take or extracurriculars, I would appreciate it immensely. Thank you!</p>

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<p>Here’s some advice- rather than dreaming about about a particular school, have a strong reason that you want to attend the school. In this case, what is it about Harvard, other than the obvious prestige factor, that interests you? </p>

<p>There is no way anyone can even give you a reasonable idea of your chances at any school at such an early stage of your life. You still have a lot to finish (sophomore , junior year, test scores) before you can get to your goal, but I wish you the best.</p>

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<p>Read these:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1420290-chance-threads-please-read-before-posting-one.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1420290-chance-threads-please-read-before-posting-one.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[Applying</a> Sideways | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways]Applying”>Applying Sideways | MIT Admissions)</p>

<p>The second is particularly important.</p>

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<p>

This really isn’t a great excuse. Admissions officers consider whether you have made the best use of your resources at the high school level. FYI, many Harvard undergrads graduated from public high schools.</p>

<p>PsychoDad10 asked you to articulate why you want to matriculate at Harvard. You didn’t answer his question. Why is this particular school your “DREAM” school for your undergraduate and graduate education?</p>

<p>Probably the best advice I could give you is to pursue your passion(s)…with little thought of the impact on college admissions. You’ll be happier and more fulfilled in the long run if you do this.</p>

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<p>^^ About 70% of Harvard students attended public high school. So, going to public school isn’t an excuse for “lacking opportunities.”</p>

<p>OP, PsychoDad asked a very good question which you haven’t answered: What is it about Harvard, other than the obvious prestige factor, that interests you?</p>

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<p>Well, to answer all of your questions at once:
PsychoDad10 and gibby: One of the things that sort of bothers me about this forum is how everyone automatically assumes that the only reason I’m interested in Harvard College is because it’s at the apex of the collegiate pyramid. It’s as insulting as accusing me of only liking the school because crimson is a pretty color. I am interested in the school’s diversity, how the congregation of brilliant ideas in this school have led to changes in this country that directly affect me, and how the people seem to truly love what they’re doing. Meaning, their efforts are not ephermal and superficial. The idea of being surrounded by people who seem to be attracted to the school more because of the enriching aspect of Harvard than by the prestige excites me. I want to make difference in this world. I’m looking at other schools, of course. I’m not going to be naive and say my chances of going to this school are even like .0000001%.
Bartleby007: Haha, yeah. I sort of bit my tongue at my little jab at public schools. I admit it was rather unnecessary and untrue.</p>

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<p>But I do appreciate your answer A LOT, of course :)</p>

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<p>chinnybuns: Truthfully, Harvard does not hold the patent on those things; they can also be found at Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT and a hundred other schools. If you had said “Because I like crimson better than blue or orange!” at least that that would have been a more detailed answer. Specifically, what is it about Harvard that interests you? For that answer, you need to dig deeper and look into the courses you want to take, the professors you want to study with, and the location where you want to spend the next 4 years. It’s kind of like ice cream – some people prefer vanilla, while others like chocolate or strawberry. PsychoDad10 asked you why you like chocolate, and you answered why you like ice cream.</p>

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<p>Chinnybuns- I am a parent who went through the admissions process with my son this past year. He also applied to Harvard, but he had a strong reason to want to be in the Boston area- he wanted to continue his work with a nonprofit organization and a Cardiologist at Harvard Medical School. In addition he is majoring in Classics and read extensively about the program. He didn’t get in and chose to attend WUSTL- he really liked the friendliness and realized that the students there attend WUSTL because they love the place for what it is. I agree with a previous poster- the diversity and intelligence you seek can be found at a myriad of schools. You may have assumed that I assumed about your intentions, but when you mention only Harvard in your initial post and your dream to attend the school without mentioning what it is that attracts you, then experience would suggest that you are looking at Harvard the same way many others view it- for the prestige. One of my son’s classmates will be attending an Ivy this fall even though he hated the place, but he made it clear he was attending for the prestige. I hope you and others don’t fall prey to this mentality.</p>

<p>And Gibby- thanks for the support.</p>

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<p>You can appreciate Harvard for various reasons and your perceptions about life there, but in a pool of 35,000 applicants, you have to show them the attributes they want in their teeny group of 2000 admits. Your competition will have undertaken (sometimes strenuous) challenges, have had some impact in/outside the high school comfort zone, among other qualities. Plus high stats, usually solid rigor in their courses, the respect of teachers who write their LoRs. That’s what it IS. That’s how it got to be the place you admire.</p>

<p>As in the advice about essays: it starts with what you “show, not tell.” And, in the end, H says they have 3x the number of great candidates as slots available. </p>

<p>PD, best wishes to your son.</p>

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<p>Huh, I never thought about it that way. One of the things I fear is that if I do all this deep-digging and come up short, it will have been for nothing. Sure, I’ll come out of the browsing process knowing what I want out of a university, but still…
Another thing is I’ve been interested in law since before my Harvard dream. I’m not even looking at that many Ivies. I have UCs I want to attend, too.
Once I do my research, I will definitely tell you WHY I want to go to Harvard University, of all schools.</p>

<p>One more thing–I hope you people are fully aware that I’m serious about this school and I’m not trying to just fill my time.</p>

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<p>^^ I understand, but as I said on another one of you chance threads, Harvard doesn’t offer an undergraduate program in pre-law, so Harvard may or may not be “your dream” school – and all of that is okay. You should be looking at colleges that offer what you are interested in studying, and the only way you can do that is by investigating each college’s offerings.</p>

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<p>

@gibby:
As you may know, obtaining an undergrad degree that directly relates to a future career path is…well…unnecessary. Among my undergrad classmates at Harvard (and many other colleges) who ended up pursuing a law degree, many received bachelor’s degrees in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math, Engineering, History of Science, Government, Social Studies, Economics, Political Science, East Asian Studies, Classics, Philosophy, Foreign language, Social Studies, English, etc. To be honest, majoring in “pre-law” sounds just as odd to me as majoring in “pre-medicine.” And, yes, I realize that different schools structure major/minor concentrations in various ways.</p>

<p>Unless things have changed recently, Harvard doesn’t offer a field of concentration known as “pre-law.” I would advise students who are interested in pursuing a law degree (or a medical degree) to get a great liberal arts education.</p>

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<p>Oh, Chinnybuns, it is never for nothing. If you are barely 15 and can identify and pursue an intellectual goal, you may not get to Harvard, but that’s all. As gibby said, there are so many intellectually vibrant campuses. Cast a wide net on CC (ie, lurk) and you will find some impressive input.</p>

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<p>I think that a lot of the advice here is just missing the point. First of all, the idea that you need to have a particular reason relating to classes, professors, location to pick a school is just wrong for the vast majority of students who come here. Undergraduate education here is built very tightly around allowing people to explore both their own interests and interests they never knew they had until some gen ed course they took or a friend they made or whatever. Sure, most can still find things they like more about Yale than Harvard and vice versa, but both schools are interested in fielding a full spectrum of options. Both universities have outstanding departments in almost all topics. Questions about particular faculty and professional goals come up more pressingly for graduate and professional school, and it takes a long saturation in your field to even develop well thought out preferences. Also, the absence of pre-law is absolutely irrelevant. A huge number of Harvard students go onto law school and even take law school courses as undergraduates. There is law-specific advising through the houses and the OCS, and Harvard Law is thought to show a bias towards Harvard undergrads based on how many they accept yearly.</p>

<p>The primary question of the post was about getting in. What it takes to get in to Harvard OR most other elite schools is quite similar. More specific questions about which school is best can wait until junior year or until you have some acceptances. Questions about how to make sure you have the resume to be competitive are urgent and you can do something about them every year of high school. While the advice that people should simply do what they love regardless of any other factors is appealing and therapeutic to many personality types, it also isn’t a law. You can do things you don’t enjoy for college and learn to love them. You might also never learn to love them, but may be successful in them nonetheless. The vast majority of your activities are never going to come up in your interview or in your essay and the sheer fact that you did them at all will be enough to fill out the extracurricular bubble. If you don’t know what you love–if your situation prevents you from investing fully in what you love–then by all means do what you can or what will help get you in. Do it and wait for the time when your situation will give you the opportunity to pursue what you love more fully. Chinny, if any of this sounds like it resonates to you, then I would suggest you take a look at Questbridge. Although it doesn’t tailor to Harvard specifically it gives a lot of valuable information about capitalizing on unusual circumstances and lack of opportunities for low income and minority students. </p>

<p>If you do know what you love, and it sounds like you have a good idea, then here is another way of trying to draw out an application that you can live. Think about what drives you and how you would spend your life for the next three years if you had every opportunity open to you. Imagine what that application would look like. Lets call it your ideal. Now consider your particular circumstance and the basic essentials of an application (good grades, hard classes, volunteer hours) and the stuff that everyone on here agrees are good things. Given that you need to get the essentials, look at the plan that you outlined earlier in this thread. Could someone who read that plan get the impression of what your ideal might look like just be seeing that plan? If not, what ways might you change your plan to give the spirit of the ideal while maintaining the essentials given your situation? This is really just a way of reorganizing on how you invest yourself, but in the process you make what drives you easier for people to see from the outside.</p>

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<p>For instance, if you would like to pursue writing, maybe you can look think about submitting some of your best short stories to local magazines or library competitions. If you have some you really like, think about submitting to state competitions of the Scholastic awards. If you want to explore your heritage further, maybe you would be interested in independent studying a historic language, or putting together a project for essay competitions dealing with topics of heritage. As the only US citizen in your family, you might have a very unique perspective on citizenship which you might submit to competitions dealing with what it means to be American. Maybe you can volunteer at a local citizenship office or volunteer to help recent immigrants get ready to take their citizenship test. Take a look at what kind of high school competitions are out there nationally and locally and see if any fit you well. Additionally, if you want to prove that you are a self-starter who isn’t going to be held back by the limitations of your high school, maybe you can browse the different AP exams and see if there are any topics your high school doesn’t offer but that you think you would enjoy enough to self study. Or maybe you can start a student group or community project. None of this is essential and you might have better ideas yourself, but they are ways of infusing your application with some of the things that make you unique.</p>

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<p>I think we should be cautious about throwing out specific ideas, not just on this thread. Many others may be doing the same, thinking it’s the trick, and some may be doing it at quite higher levels. Plus, you can’t anticipate that exactly this or that will convey to adcoms what they want to see.</p>

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<p>Thank you, greatthenate!
See, your suggestions are the kind of ones I’m looking for.
While I’m not entirely sure which things are minors and which are majors, I do know that sociology, literature, and law are three things that I am completely in love with.</p>

<p>Some of my pre-mature thoughts:
I do have genuine interests pertaining to these three fields of study. I’m in the process of writing an adolescent-friendly novel. I’ve been trying to understand ethics (to be honest, it’s a lot to wrap my head around). I also have empirical evidence that suggests ethics regulates areas of behavior out of the government’s control (which I think is why things like gay marriage and abortion are frowned upon by a majority of people because of things like religion and culture). I wanted to take my knowledge and better this country by putting an end to this seizure of basic human rights. I think that in the US there isn’t any real separation of church and state and that’s why a majority of the social reforms don’t make it through the House the first time they’re presented, like the current Immigration Reform. Do keep in mind that politics confuses the hell out of me and–not to hide behind my age or anything–I’m 15. So if some of what I’m saying doesn’t make sense, there’s probably a malpropism hiding in here.</p>

<p>Anyway, enough about my thoughts on politics and ethics. I just want you guys to have a good idea of who you’re dealing with. Lookingforward, I asked for suggestions in my post. I’ve been thinking of places where I can do community service and have it relate to what I hope to do in my future. So far, I like all of his suggestions.</p>

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<p>Also, it’s not just about what the admissions office wants to see (if that’s who “they” are); it’s also about what I want to see. I’m not going to mindlessly shove ECs on to my application like a famished child at an all-you-can-eat buffet. I want to do community service for other reasons besides pleasing the dean. I think that’s what they look for in an applicant, anyway. I’m genuinely interested in what I research, what I write, and what I read. The only question: Is Harvard?</p>

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<p>Harvard is interested in what works for Harvard.
As interpreted by it’s adcoms. Read the link above to a very solid thread gibby originated.</p>