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<p>This is untrue, and I wish people would stop saying this. No, psychology and biology are not pre-professional degrees like, say, computer science and engineering. And yes, your job prospects (at least right now) are probably better with a computer science or engineering major. But it is simply untrue to say that it is unrealistic to expect to be employed at all with an undergraduate major in one of those fields. In fact, the unemployment rate for recent college grads who were psychology majors (7.6%) or biology majors (7.7%) is about the same, or slightly lower than, engineering majors (7.3-8.3%, depending on the type) and computer science majors (7.8%).</p>
<p>The difference comes in at salaries, not unemployment rates. It is simply a myth that only computer science, engineering, and business majors get jobs - otherwise the unemployment rate would be a whole lot higher than it is.</p>
<p>I came here just to say that Minnesota actually has a top 10 psychology program - it’s a very well-recognized school for psychology, at least at the graduate level.</p>
<p>OP, tuition reciprocity means that you pay in-state tuition at another state’s school. In this case, if you live in Minnesota, you can pay in-state tuition to go to University of Wisconsin public schools, including Madison. U of W-Madison is stronger academically, this is a great deal for MN students (I live in the Twin Cities, so I know).</p>
<p>You probably don’t want to take on a lot of debt given your proposed majors. While you may be employed, your ability to pay off a lot of debt may not be terrific. Also, you can only borrow $27,000 total over 4 years yourself, any other loans would likely have to be taken on by your parents.</p>
<p>I don’t think you have told us your stats. Do you even have a shot at top schools? Although with some parents it is just easier to apply… and then when you are turned down, the decision is made for you. Just be sure you apply to U of MN - TC and U of Wisc - Madison, and wherever else he wants you to… If you do get in someplace else, make sure there is a plan to pay for all four years before you send in your acceptance.</p>
<p>Also, if you want to work in the Twin Cities or Chicago or Milwaukee or someplace like that, you will do fine from either of those schools.</p>
<p>Your father is absolutely correct. Listen to him and follow his wise advice.</p>
<p>It isn’t wise advice if the father can’t pay the bill. And if the OP has to go into debt to meet his/her father’s goals and not her own. Also, the OP has posted no stats for us, so there is no telling if the father is delusional about what it takes to get into a top college these days.</p>
<p>UW-Madison is seen as stronger overall, but my impression is that Carlson enjoys a fine reputation in the TC, and being there makes it easier to hunt for job, interships, network, etc.</p>
<p>Something to keep in mind if a business major.</p>
<p>@juillet:
CS actually isn’t preprofessional as originally conceived (and still isn’t in many places, though in some schools, it has moved that way). It is closer to math and analytic philosophy than most other lib arts subjects.
It’s just that the skills and concepts you learn in a good CS program will make you very viable in the workplace right now. If lab techs suddenly become immensely in demand, we might see people consider bio a preprofessional major as well.</p>
<p>The reason CS is more employable because the degree comes with experience. My kid has to churn out a program every week whether or not she likes it. Not the same with engineering, I studied a lot of theories when I was in engineering. There were labs but I was never under the pressure of getting it done or you get a zero like some of her classes.</p>
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<p>Biology is often chosen for pre-professional reasons – often because it is (incorrectly) viewed as being necessary to do pre-med or other pre-health. Also, some students are interested in working in biology-type jobs, not realizing that how competitive getting those jobs is.</p>
<p>Other liberal arts majors are also often chosen for pre-professional reasons. Examples include applied math or statistics for actuarial or finance preparation, or political science as a pre-law major.</p>
<p>@DrGoogle:</p>
<p>Good point. CS majors are in demand here because of how we evaluate in CS programs in the US. In the UK, CS grads actually have the highest unemployment rate of all majors because (like, evidently all majors in the UK), your grades mostly come down to a big test at the end of the year. Also, their CS programs may not be as rigorous.</p>
<p>Op,
It’s good to gather facts before you start your application process, so I’m glad that you are starting this discussion now. By “good school” shall I assume that your dad means basically top 20 in USNWR?
- Cost of attendance: Make sure that he knows that the COA will run around $250K for 4 years of college at those types of schools
- Although there is usually not merit aid, you may be surprised that some of the colleges will offer financial aid with incomes of up to $200K per year. Have him run a Net Price Calculator on a few of the college websites
- Have him (and you) take a look at threads on cc which shows stats of accepted students to some of these colleges to have him see if you are in the ballpark stats wise
<a href=“***Official Northwestern Class of 2018 RD Results ONLY**** - Northwestern University - College Confidential Forums”>***Official Northwestern Class of 2018 RD Results ONLY**** - Northwestern University - College Confidential Forums;
<a href=“***Official Harvard University 2018 SCEA Decisions ONLY*** - Harvard University - College Confidential Forums”>***Official Harvard University 2018 SCEA Decisions ONLY*** - Harvard University - College Confidential Forums;
- Have him and you look on your HS naviance program (if they use Naviance) to see if your stats are in the ballpark</p>
<p>If your stats are in the ballpark, you could apply to a few schools that he wants, plus all of the schools that you are interested in. Maybe he is interested in pulling a lottery ticket to see if you will win? (which is reasonable…you never know unless you take a shot). Maybe you don’t want to deal with the stress of extra applications and likely rejection? (which is reasonable). If your stats are out of line, then hopefully he will see this when he actually looks at the data and then just drop his pressure to apply to the lottery schools.</p>
<p>lots of great advice. As Psychology Today states in recent article, parents often exaggerate how smart their snowflake is and underestimate the weight of their heavy snowball. (terms of snowflake /ball absolutely not used in article).</p>
<p>Showing your father naviance, especially if can do with a GC, or the admitted/denied stats listed under each college on CC, will help FA set reasonable targets.</p>
<p>Your dad just wants you to go to a school the general public has heard of out of state. All big ten schools are famous so Minnesota is fine. Don’t go to a school no one has heard of, unless you get a lot of financial aid or cost isn’t an issue. As far as brand name recognition, imagine you are far from Minnesota and ask yourself if you would recognize the name of a college. In today’s world, you’ll likely end up living out of state so think nationally.</p>
<p>Are you competitive academically for colleges like Harvard? If so, you should apply, by all means. The most prestigious colleges are usually the wealthiest and likeliest to meet financial needs. I hope your father does not have fanciful notions about admissions, though. Many parents lack a realistic concept of how difficult it is to get into the most elite private colleges, and how expensive it is to attend. Unless your grades, test scores, and extracurricular activities are truly exceptional, Harvard is not a plausible option for you.</p>
<p>This is ironic because usually the discussion is the other way around. Previous posters were absolutely correct when they said that the name of a school will not get you into a job position, but it may get your “foot in the door.” And honestly if you can save thousands of dollars in debt and go to a school you are more passionate about, than do that. There’s no harm in applying to some of the schools your dad mentioned if you are competitive, but when it comes down to it, you need to put your foot down and explain why you are passionate about the schools you are.</p>
<p>If your dad is realistic at all, after your (presumed) acceptance at some of these other schools, he can compare costs, and probably realize that the state school is the best deal anyway. If he has only saved up 2 years of tuition for a school like Harvard, that does not sound like a realistic plan and the difference would probably be obvious enough that you could attend your state flagship anyway. The open discussion is important. I had the same discussions with my parents during the application process, and it resulted in a better relationship because of it</p>
<p>edit: If your dad doubts some of the wisdom that has been given on here regarding job hiring, ask him to talk to a potential employer and how they hire workers. Most will say the college name is only one part of the application, and the name means nothing if they are not a capable worker</p>
<p>Ok,. as far as I understand the OP is NOT interested in CS or engineering. If in fact OP was interested, then UG is absolutely does not matter, zilch none. Engineering firms hire mostly locally and so do most (vast majority) of IT deparments. And, yes, how in a world I am so sure. It jsut happened that my H. is an engineer with about 40 years of experience and most of our friends are engineers, and I happened to be in CS with about 35 years of experience and was employed at 9 different places all accross different industires, retail, medical, medical insurance, small manufacturing, specialty retail, huge international automotive and buiding product supplier, energy (one of the Edisons). All of our places and our firends employers hire locally. We have a decent compensation also while living in very cheap place. Also, based on D’s experience, Medical Schools do not care about the name of your UG, yes, getting acceoptances at the top Med. Schools is not unusual for graduates from in-state public college (D. and her friends are good examples of it).<br>
On the other hand, whatever one does with the pshycology and Bio UG degrees might be affected by the college name, I am just nor familiar with that (outside of Med. School).</p>
<p>…to add "CS grads actually have the highest unemployment rate of all majors " - because they change jobs more frequently than others…they might take packages offerred and start looking for other place. I have changed my job 9 times, departments just get dismissed and re-opened at another location, but I could not relocate, it happens more often with IT than others.</p>
<p>I went to a top-school for CS, and it definitely mattered for me. Different people have different goals, and not everyone who majors in CS wants to work as a programmer after graduation.</p>
<p>Also I find it really weird that people are talking about not being able to go to Harvard without financial aid. You have to be pretty well off to not get financial aid at Harvard.</p>
<p>Judging by what the OP has said about himself on other threads, he is not going to be a top candidate for Yale, which is where he has legacy. Unless things have changed since last year, anyway.</p>
<p>“In fact, the unemployment rate for recent college grads who were psychology majors (7.6%) or biology majors (7.7%) is about the same, or slightly lower than, engineering majors (7.3-8.3%, depending on the type) and computer science majors (7.8%).”</p>
<p>I am interested in knowing where this information came from. </p>
<p>Psychology major unemployment rate is 19.5% in 2011 compare to other majors at below 10% (Though this isn’t the most recent data, at least it gives a reason to be cautious.)
<a href=“http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/NILF1111/#term=”>http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/NILF1111/#term=</a> </p>
<p>If job after graduation is a goal for OP, Psychology isn’t something to go for. But the university itself is a good one.</p>
<p>I know there’s a fact out there somewhere - I cn find the evidence, but your GPA is more highly correlated with higher salaries than a “bigger name” school.</p>
<p>OP</p>
<p>If you are concerned about getting work after college, in general the major you choose is more important than the college you go to. Your dad is not wrong, brand does matter too, but major matters more. Minnesota is a good college and very reputable. It is a Big 10 school and I think that the Big 10 is probably the conference that has the best overall academic reputation after the Ivy League. With a well chosen major, you should have no problem finding work. </p>
<p>Your school counselor is correct about Ivies. Actually, I am pretty sure that less than 1% of college graduates come from Ivies. Few students are admitted, and as others have said, it is more difficult than most students or parents know to get in.</p>
<p>Additionally, I think that it is very important to find a school that the student likes. Making a student attend a school where they do not wish to be is a recipe for disaster.</p>
<p>Finally, having said all of that, if you are in fact a good candidate for an Ivy or similar quality school, I would tell you that there are definite advantages to attending one and I would recommend that you at least visit a few before you write them all off. </p>
<p>Top private colleges often have access to a resources that a state college does not. The reason is that they have more money. You may find that you like them better than you think. You just do not know until you investigate. </p>