<p>When I started looking at colleges in the beginning of my sophomore year, my dad always told me to go where I wanted to. Now that I'm going to be a senior and apply to colleges this fall, he's starting to care a lot more about where I want to go, and the ability of that college's name to be recognized by future employers. He has told me that the name of the college is what carries you into a good job. I'm not sure how true this is, and when I told this to my school's college counselor, he gave me a statistic to tell my dad: about 1% of college grads are from Ivy League schools. I'm also not sure if that's true, but when I told my dad, he said that "didn't mean anything." Now we're kind of butting heads on this issue, as I'd like to go to a state school, especially since I've been told I could get some decent merit aid there, but he wants me to go somewhere with more of a name that'll be recognized outside of state. Parents, do you have any advice on what I can say to him to at least convince him that just because this school (University of Minnesota - Twin Cities) might not be the best school I can get into, that doesn't mean I won't be able to get a decent job if I go there? I'd really appreciate it. Thank you! </p>
<p>Would he pay for the “name” school, or does he want to you take extra debt to pay for it?</p>
<p>The effect of the school’s name on employment depends on the area of employment. Some areas, like Wall Street or elite managment consulting, are highly school-prestige-conscious. Others, like engineering and CS, are much less so (although campus recruiting will favor local schools, larger schools, and those known for good engineering and CS – not necessarily the schools with the highest general prestige).</p>
<p>You will do just fine attending a “big 10” university. I know many, many students who attend or recently graduated from U of M and have done quite well. My husband is a manager for a large employer in MN and he has said that sometimes the higher level managers won’t hire graduates from the smaller regional universities-- but U of M is considered quite respectable in their eyes.</p>
<p>Apply to UW-Madison as well. National reputation with alumni all over the country. Plus tuition reciprocity (although this could have been dropped). Many top 5, 10, 20 grad schools in STEM fields- this does filter down to the undergrad level.</p>
<p>Your father should have a discussion with your HS guidance counselor about what he expects you to be doing. I would think your GC has statistics on jobs available to grads of schools most of the best students from your HS attend. btw- Harvard is a poor choice compared to many others for computer science. Your father should learn that some schools have excellent national reputations and are heavily recruited from in some fields. Famous schools do not always have the best programs in many fields.</p>
<p>You can look at various college websites to find where their grads get jobs. Where does your father expect you to find work? Only in New York City? The Midwest? The West Coast? Chicago? Seattle? Silicon Valley? Minneapolis? </p>
<p>Where do YOU think you want to live eventually? If you are thinking of the east coast it might be helpful to be educated there. But different regions know their local grads more than some LAC from outside the area. </p>
<p>Perhaps you are interested in grad school. State flagships professors are known in their fields. Finances dictate where many elite students go to college.</p>
<p>Tell him that U MN is one of the best universities in the entire world. Period. End of story. It is world class. People outside of MN respect any school in the Big Ten.</p>
<h1>47 in the world</h1>
<p><a href=“University of Minnesota | World University Rankings | THE”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/world-ranking/institution/university-of-minnesota</a></p>
<h1>29</h1>
<p><a href=“http://www.shanghairanking.com/World-University-Rankings/University-of-Minnesota-Twin-Cities.html”>http://www.shanghairanking.com/World-University-Rankings/University-of-Minnesota-Twin-Cities.html</a></p>
<p>The name of the school isn’t going to get you a job. Period.</p>
<p>However, it <em>might</em> get you a job interview that a unrecognized (or less respected) school would not get you. It would still be up to you to win the job offer in the interview, and you cannot do that by name dropping your school. No guarantee that it would get you even an interview in this economy, though.</p>
<p>And it <em>can</em> certainly make a difference on getting you into grad school, if you choose that path. But again, it’s not guaranteed.</p>
<p>Minnesota is a solid school and will not in any way undermine your job prospects.</p>
<p>Here’s a little secret: No one hires because of who you are or where you went to school or what you studied; they will hire you based on what you can DO for their business. And the number one best indicator of what work you can do is what work you’ve done before. So the best way to prove you can handle a particular job upon graduation is to have worked in that field in college. Part-time, internships, even volunteering for professors on large projects or research, what matters is that the employer has evidence of what you can do for him.</p>
<p>He’s offered to pay for it, however he only has enough saved up for a year, maybe two, at a school like Harvard (since that’s come up). I’d want to major in Psychology, maybe also in Biology, not CS or engineering. He’s also said not to expect any need based aid, but I’m still going to apply and fill out the FAFSA because I feel like I should at least try. For work, I’d probably stay in the midwest, and I’d probably stay close to the college I graduate from.</p>
<p>@wis75 what do you mean by tuition reciprocity? </p>
<p>No, you do not go to any school just because your parents pay for it. dhard18 has another thread going and his advice is that of a recent HS grad with problems with his parents ways. You teach your father about the schools that interest you. You get your HS professionals to back up your chosen colleges’ reputations. </p>
<p>Your father also has a learning curve regarding the college admission process. He wanted you to choose, now he is concerned those choices may not be good enough. Now he needs to learn there are many schools that have good names aside from those he currently knows of. </p>
<p>Add schools on his current list IF they also have what you want. Perhaps an agreement at this stage of the process to allow you and he to each pick schools for you to apply to. By the time you actually file those applications you both will have had time to learn more. Then, when you have your spring options and finances known you can choose the best fit school. </p>
<p>A lot will change in the next few months. Instead of butting heads you and your father can both come up with lists. You can analyze his list and show him why your picks fit you best. Thjere may be some overlap. </p>
<p>Yes, do apply to U of M and UW- who knows which of the two you will get accepted to. You can also apply to several other schools. Do not settle on only the known, close to home options at this time.</p>
<p>If your father only has enough money to finance Harvard for a year, or possibly two, and he is sure you won’t qualify for financial aid, how does he think you will be able to afford to finish your degree? A half finished degree is worthless however prestigious the college you attended.</p>
<p>Name of school isn’t the only factor to get you your first job. Your GPA and work experience will also come into play, as well as your ability to interview. </p>
<p>Your dad doesn’t expect you to come up with the money for the next two-three years, does he? </p>
<p>Also tell your dad about the capriciousness of admissions to the top schools. I am sure you are a great candidate, but there are many great candidates. Your state school may be the best school you get into. </p>
<p>@Lizardly - No, he doesn’t expect me to pay, but I’m not sure where that money is going to come from if it isn’t saved up. I also have 2 younger brothers, one is three years younger than me and the other is six years younger than me, so that’ll add another expense when they start. I just don’t think he understands the ways in which college is different nowadays. Just because he went to an Ivy League school doesn’t mean I can get accepted too.</p>
<p>On reciprocity – if you are in state at U MN then you are in a middle category tuition wise at UW – not quite as low as instate but not quite as high as out of state. My kid is at UW, and I believe that roughly 60% of the students are instate, about roughly another 20% are from MN and another 20% out of state. Other than WI and MN residents, his experience is that Illinois, CA, and NY/NJ are biggest feeder states to UW. </p>
<p>I went to Case Western Reserve University. Many people have not heard of it. But Engineering Firms hiring Engineeers have heard of it. So the real thing is have the firms/industry that you are thinking of going into know about your school. Also a school may be known in a region of a country…where do you think you want to end up? Is it near the college of your choice?</p>
<p>This is a problem that may resolve itself. You apply to the schools you’re interested in, plus a few your dad is interested in, then you choose from among the ones that accept you. </p>
<p>OK, " major in Psychology, maybe also in Biology" - what is your goal as for employment? It is NOT practical to expect to be employed with either of these. I do not know if school name will help or not at all. Very rough market, people who are anyhow connected to these, do not send their kids for these majors. On the other hand, if you are thinking about Med. School, then the name of the UG is absolutely irrelevant, the best is to go to the one that you personally like and gave you the most in Merit awards. Filing FASFA is a great idea. Some UGs are giving full range of Merit awards based on the fact if FASFA is filed or not. Nope, I am not talking about need based, I am talking about Merits. That was the way at D’s UG. She was on full tuition Merit and one reason was that we have followed school advice and filed FASFA every year, while being very far from qualifiying for needs based.<br>
I see advice for Case. Great, great school for both engineering and any pre-med related major, so it will be right in your range of interest. I do not know how engineering companies do not hear about Case if it is considered good specifically for engineers and pre-meds. But you are not concerned with engineering anyway. However, there is no campus, so to speak, so you have to visit to see how you feel. And it is very very Ohio, but if you are from Minnesota, than you are used to driving in snow. Case is very well known for absolutely great Merit awards for top kids and a great Medical School. My D. recieved about $27k / year there in Merit award, but she went to a different UG. Case is private and OS pay the same tuition as IS.</p>
<p>Is there a reason you dislike the schools your dad wants you to go to besides cost? Have a frank cost discussion with him and just ask. It’s possible they may have resources that you aren’t aware of, and your parents may be able to afford it or may consider this an investment into your future.</p>
<p>Are you just concerned that you may not get into the schools that your dad wants you to go to? If so, that doesn’t seem like a huge problem. Apply to some of the top schools that your dad wants you to (that you would also be willing to attend) and apply to other schools that you are more likely to be accepted to and would like to go to. There’s no real reason to pick this fight at the application stage, although you should both be honest about where you stand in terms of finances and favorite schools.</p>
<p>Is it because you don’t want to move? You could find top schools in your area, or tell your father that it can often be easier to get a job in particular regions if you go to school in that area. You may be able to find internships at local companies or make other connections with companies that you would like to work with in the future.</p>
<p>Are you considering graduate school or professional school? That might be another reason to save money now, and focus more on going to a good school where you can get a good GPA and good experience to help with potential future applications.</p>
<p>He might want to see this article.</p>
<p><a href=“http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023920010_internhousingperksxml.html”>http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023920010_internhousingperksxml.html</a></p>
<p>Here is a good suggestion for your Dad to get an eye opener and some education about the competition level now.: You can get a copy cheaply on amazon of The Gatekeepers: Inside the Admissions process at a Premier College by Jacques Steinberg the former NYT education reporter. In the very first few chapters it goes over the numbers and admissions rates and why it is so much more difficult than his day–actually it is even more difficult than when this book was written. When the book was first out and my daughter went to Brown the admit rate was 14%, now it is 8%… It is also a really interesting read past that as it tracks an admissions officer at Wesleyan University for a year and you get an inside look at the admission meetings. It also follows a selection of students applying to Wes as well as Ivies and other colleges, from varying backgrounds.</p>
<p>Did your Dad actually run a Net Price Calculator to see if there would be any aid available. You should get a legacy tip in admissions at his alma mater. depending on which it is. But the cost thing is puzzling especially the sensible points you make about having more kids to pay for. </p>
<p>You can get opportunities and pipelines to certain employers at Ivies. But your father is really off base with UMN not having the name to carry you to a good job. It is a R1 National Research Uni, not some podunk U. Anyway if you are planning for grad school you just need a place good enough which it is, and it is going to be the grad school name that will carry you. I do know psych majors who don’t go on and just get regular business jobs. Now if you are a psych major that wants to go to wall street then Ivy may be better. But the GC is right that Ivies are just a miniscule fraction of grads, they are not the only ones getting the good jobs. It’s a great luxury if you can afford it, sure.</p>
<p>So get The Gatekeepers for him. Maybe apply to UMN and UW is also a great suggestion.(27k/year COA for MN residents.) Maybe throw one or two apps in for your Dad. Maybe there is a private where you can get merit aid-- you might want to look into that just for variety.</p>
<p>Just a minor point, Harvard is not a poor choice for a undergraduate CS major. It is an excellent choice even though it is not a tech school and you can get into the very best CS grad schools from there.</p>
<p>I’d like to echo @MiamiDAP here in saying it really depends on what your endgame is.
Getting employed with a BS in Biology of Psychology is not easy so any advantage will help (and yes going to a name brand school is an advantage since it will at least give you a leg up in getting job interviews/recruited). However if you’re planning on going to grad/med school we enter a whole different debate. The effect of your UG’s “name” on med/grad school admissions has been debated a lot on CC and while name brand schools may have more opportunities for UGs looking to grad/med school (research, internships, study abroad/volunteering options, etc) not everyone takes advantage of these opportunities.
By the way everything so far is made on the assumption that you will GET INTO a “name brand” school. Don’t not apply because you’re arguing with your dad over prices and merit aid. It’s better to have the opportunity too turn them down than to wonder what might have been. </p>
<p>Why don’t you give us some idea of your stats and we can make some suggestions. There are many excellent schools out there besides Harvard and your state flagship.</p>
<p>BTW, why everyone immediately assumed that you were planning to study CS or engineering I do not know. I would suggest that you ignore people who tel you that you can’t get a job with this major or that. You can get a job with ANY major, and moreover, one that suits your interests and makes you happy. Your real interests will emerge while you are in college and are able to take courses in things not available to HS students. Just make sure that you go to a solid school that is reasonably strong in broad areas of potential interest.</p>
<p>And yes, the name and reputation of your school CAN help you get a job in that it can get you an interview, especially if you end up majoring in something like psych. Combined with good internships–which a name school can also help you get–it can open doors. But the Ivies are far from the only schools with the ability to do that for you.</p>