My Final (Rather Self-Indulgent) Thread

Applying to College
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<p>“But I’m curious what Northstarmom would say to those “overachievers planning bake sales” given her advocacy of a particular kind of leadership. Because I’m sure many would agree that there is a significant number of high school students that does early meticulous planning of ECs to project that image of being a active and organized community “leader”.”</p>

<p>When it comes to the places like HPYS that care about ECs and leadership, it would have to be a very unusual bake sale to stand out for admissions. The kind of leadership that I’ve seen done by students accepted to such schools was far more remarkable than ordinary bake sales.</p>

<p>One H applicant whom I interviewed, was the n elected national president of a large, well known student organization (and also had other major achievements --at local, regional and state level), and offices in ECs ranging from art to music to math and Latin). In the interview, the student was able to provide details about why the student ran for office, what the student had learned from the experience of serving, challenges the student had faced, and things the student would do over if that had been possible.</p>

<p>The best example of leadership that I remember hearing about in an interview was a student who had run for president of the school marching band, but wasn’t elected. Due to the student’s active involvement in band, however, the advisor offered the student the position of uniform manager, a position that until then had been done by an adult.</p>

<p>The student took the position, which meant she was responsible for making sure that the 100 or so band uniforms and accessories were cleaned and repaired before each performance. In addition, the student was on executive board of the band.</p>

<p>in addition to doing her band uniform duties – which was a big responsibility requiring a considerable amount of organizational skills, the student also used her executive board position to create a system for orienting freshmen about the band so that they became connected to upperclassmembers, and also learned about the band’s policies. The student also was section leader, and created some activities to help her section improve and become more supportive of each other.</p>

<p>The student’s leadership stood out because after being defeated in an election, she took a humble position, did it well, and used it as a means of helping the organization improve even though creating and running a freshmen orientation wasn’t part of her official duties.</p>

<p>The former student ended up at Harvard. The latter ended up at Stanford.</p>

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<p>Yes Northstarmom, I’m sure those 2 applicants were excellent examples of passionate leaders. But I don’t think HYPS etc. only has 2 slots to fill. You described the interviews that were striking and clear in revealing the true mettle of an applicant, which is the best result of an interview. Unfortunately, I don’t think the interview can score big most of the time.</p>

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<p>Interviews can reveal sham ECs and leadership. Students’ characters also are revealed by their essays and recommendations. Both of those can indicate the depth of students’ ECs and leadership experience. In addition, I know that H admissions officers often call GCs and ask a lot of in depth questions about applicants. For instance, the GC at S’s school told me that the H adcom talked with her for 45 minutes before accepting a student EA (This was a couple of years ago when H still had EA). The adcom asked in depth questions about the student. </p>

<p>Most interviews don’t provide the kind of info that I described. That’s because while most people who apply to places like HPYS may have the requisite grades and scores, it’s rare for applicants to have leadership and/or EC achievements that stand out in that pool of students who in general are far above average.</p>

<p>When it comes to essays, they may reveal unflattering things that the student doesn’t realize s/he is revealing, things that indicate a student’s character or perception of something like leadership is very different than what admissions officers are looking for.</p>

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<p>To be clear, I found the OP’s comments less than tasteful too, but I think he does bring up a very valid point, and it is that there is a significant number of high school students providing sham ECs and leadership that has SUCCESSFULLY hoodwinked the system.</p>

<p>Interviews, essays, recommendations and covert investigation are additional resources to fight this problem, but I still think Northstarmom’s total confidence in these methods are misplaced, no matter how many individual examples are given to validate its success. Reading through CC will give you a very good idea of how interviews, essays and recommendations, in addition to ECS, are also manipulated by the student to project an overly-flattering image. It’s an on-going battle between the system and how to hoodwink the system, and I think the system has not come out tops yet.</p>

<p>“Most interviews don’t provide the kind of info that I described. That’s because while most people who apply to places like HPYS may have the requisite grades and scores, it’s rare for applicants to have leadership and/or EC achievements that stand out in that pool of students who in general are far above average.”</p>

<p>Exactly, given that HYPS etc. has to admit hundreds or thousands of undergrad every year, that’s a whole bunch of individualized interviews (and covert investigation) that has to be successfully planned to root out the fakes.</p>

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<p>I’ve never said I’m totally confident that all shams are weeded out. In fact, I know of one person whom I caught in lies during their Harvard interview, who was admitted to another top 10 school. </p>

<p>I think, however, that most of the students who are admitted to places like HPYS are students with leadership and who have pursued ECs with depth and interest. If that wasn’t the case, colleges like Harvard wouldn’t have hundreds of active student-run ECs.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I find your story both inspiring and depressing. Don’t feel like the last 3 years of pure hard work were all for nothing. You dramatically improved everything academically! You’ll be attending a top 20 school and you certainly performed better than most students out there. I feel like you should have at least gotten into georgetown and northwestern, but perhaps it was serious attitude towards school that didn’t bump you to the accepted pool. A lot of my very successful friends, I’ve noticed, are not only the hardest-working (some are naturally smart, some aren’t), but they are also the nicest, most humble kids in my school. The teachers love them and write them great recs. Some, like i said, are naturally smart. Some aren’t but work hard and still go to schools like Harvard, MIT, etc. I have no doubt you’ll find success in transferring next year. Your senior year credentials are impeccable. You’ll undoubtedly do well at UVA your freshman year.</p>

<p>You had the courage to share your story and I think that was already the first step in becoming a more easy-going person. Congratulations and I wish you the best of luck.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your post. 7 years ago my 4.0 etc. D was waitlisted at Northwestern, Brown, deferred EA Havard and then rejected and accepted at Whitman. She ended up at her safety (which is not longer anyone’s safety) Boston U. Such a bad fit and transferred after 1 semester to Middlebury which was perfect and to which she had not even applied originally (even tho mom KNEW it was the school for her). What I appreciate about your post is the absolute and overwhelming angst about this process. While I do believe D did end up in the perfect place it was hell to get there. You will no doubt be happy at UVA and if you are not you are aware of you own self and process enough to figure out how to transfer. I just appreciate you post because I have felt that so few CCers understand the toll that this takes when it does not turn out as planned–and if one does get into their dream school there is so much joy that the hell is forgotten.</p>

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<p>“nd I will always have my most valued asset— my brains. I know I will excel at UVA because I’m too darn smart to fall back in the pack at the nation’s twenty-third ranked university…So I will go to UVA and work my tail off. I’ll get my 4.0 and try to transfer to Northwestern.”</p>

<p>The above concerns me. Just because U Va is “only” (from the OP’s perspective) ranked 23rd in the country doesn’t mean that it’s filled with students who are less intelligent or hard working than is the OP. It’s nice to have high goals. At the same time, however, it’s a good idea to have respect for the people whom one will be going to school with and for the material that one will be challenged with. To hope for a 4.0 is a fine goal. To assume it’s a done deal may end up causing the same kind of disappointment that the OP experienced with her college apps. There are far more smart, talented, hardworking people in the world – including at colleges that aren’t at the tippy top – than the OP can imagine.</p>

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<p>2-iron wrote a great story, and could easily have been accepted to any top school and done well there. It’s random whether the adcom of the day likes golf or not.</p>

<p>I find the parents chastising 2-iron’s arrogance to be much more arrogant …</p>

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<p>Northstarmom, he wasn’t trying to be arrogant. He was being brutally honest. In one sense(academics), he outperformed most of the people who got in to HYPS, but now they’re in and he’s out, so he feels disappointed. Also: make better posts.</p>

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<p>2-iron, I know someone in a somewhat similar situation as you. He is a very naturally intelligent person and had a 4.0 GPA in HS and the scores and all that. The best school he was accepted at was Cornell, which is no doubt an amazing school, but kids in the high school he goes to are accustomed to going to HYP with stats similar to his, as hist 4.0 was achieved at a very top high school. I get the feeling that he was a little bit disappointed in his admission because of this.</p>

<p>However, he’s seized the opportunity to work hard and make himself stand out in a crowd of already very smart people. At Cornell, a school infamous for rigorous grading policies, he is currently maintaining a 4.0 GPA. With stats like that at an excellent school, the sky’s the limit for your future.</p>

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<p>good god, parts of this made me want to throw up, so i didn’t read the entire thing. The bit about “settling for Rutgers or worse” is just one of many highly offensive statements. Plenty of people would be happy to go to Rutgers; its a fine school. What if i told you my father went to Rutgers and is very proud of it? Probably wouldn’t change anything- you are obviously far too high-brow to concern yourself with someone graduating from a college outside of the top 20 listed by US News. Plenty more people can’t even go to college. 2 Iron, if this is really the way you think, you do not deserve the privelage and the blessing ahead of you. </p>

<p>I feel really bad for UVA- they obviously dont know the person they admitted (provided that this piece is reflective of your overall personality). It just shows how flawed and unfair the admissions process is; it paints an overly-embellished, inflated picture of someone, masking all of their elitism, arrogance, and “self-indulgence” as you put it.</p>

<p>which brings me to another thing. at least you realize that this piece is “self-indulgent,” which it is at the very, very least. A more apt title would be “My Final (Rather self-indulgent, arrogant, elitist, ungrateful) Thread”, please consider changing it if possible. Oh, and simply making the observation that you, yourself are being self indulgent and arrogant does not mitigate the offense you are causing if that’s what you were going for in the title. </p>

<p>I know this sounds abrasive, but really, im truly sickened. I really hope other people reading this feel the same way.</p>

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<p>^ I completely agree with ben10. This is just too arrogant. And maybe you didn’t mean for it to come off that way, but it did.
“nd I will always have my most valued asset— my brains. I know I will excel at UVA because I’m too darn smart to fall back in the pack at the nation’s twenty-third ranked university…”
This is too awful for me to put into words.</p>

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<p>“I know this sounds abrasive, but really, im truly sickened. I really hope other people reading this feel the same way.”</p>

<p>I am not sickened by it. He was simply dissapointed at not getting into where he wanted to. Any belittlings of colleges are subjective and shouldn’t be thought of as the result of a generally elitist attitude.</p>

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<p>I, too, see it as someone who was disappointed with their admissions outcome and had the honesty to tell their story. It’s a story of angst and sadness and of the sometimes brutal nature of the process. Nothing more, nothing less.</p>

<p>Just because the names of the universities are the more/most selective ones does not change the feelings of the OP. Expecation levels are different for each person. Disappointment is the same no matter who you slice it. Change the names of the universities to various random community colleges and the story itself is still the same.</p>

<p>Thank you for posting this OP. </p>

<p>Best of luck at UVA.</p>

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<p>I’m curious: if you preferred Northwestern over Yale, why didn’t you apply early to the former instead?</p>

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<p>I believe Northwestern’s early program is binding.</p>

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<p>Once the OP matures a little bit he will realize the overall foolishness of his post.</p>

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<p>CollegeMom hit the nail on the head with how I feel.</p>

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<p>I don’t know why everyone’s bashing you. Sometimes things are unfair, and it sucks. If you truly believed you deserved better, then you have the right to feel upset - you’re human after all. I know that if this happens to me in a year, I’d feel the exact same way. Posting on collegeconfidential and getting bashed for it, however, I will not do :/</p>