<p>this was originally a post in response to the "nerd" thread, but i thought i'd start a new discussion.
i wanted to start by saying that it's weird that the people at uchi are less qualified (in the traditional sense) than people at ivy league and other prestigious universities. if they're so "nerdy" then why isn't their "nerdiness" reflected in their scores/etc.? i don't buy that they are any smarter than other students at other schools at the end of the day. here is why: i just visited and was definitely considering uchi as an option (i was looking primarily at 2 schools) and was somewhat disappointed. the people, while some were friendly, were far less impressive than others i encountered at other schools. they were less excited and passionate about uchicago, and in general, seemed less bright. i sat in on a class and was very dismayed. in general, the students had no insightful comments, and nothing productive came out of 1 hr and 30 minutes.
i would say that many of the people were nice, but overall, far too shy and introverted. (again these are general observations). while some individuals were quite kind, i felt they were bland and uncreative, at least from what i could tell from conversation. given that uchicago has gotten almost easy to get into, this comes as no surprise. i had one especially frightening experience while i was trying to visit some of the dorms. (by the way if you are going, i would definitely suggest max!) people were particularly unfriendly at snell-hitchcock, as a group of 7 students refused to sign me and a friend in so we could merely look around to see the dorm room. after we politely asked to see the room, they just looked at each other and then finally awkwardly told us that they were too busy studying to walk literally two feet to sign us in. how rude! I can give more details about my experiences at other universities at other schools if this doesnt come as a total shock to you
next year, i will be going to the university of pennsylvania, and while i'm certainly no partier, i'd rather be stuck with a partier as a dorm roommate than someone who has no social sense whatsoever! after visiting, the campus seemed a lot smaller and far more sheltered than i rememberd it to be. my hope in attending a larger, more diverse university is that i won't be forced to follow one path, and instead can choose my own. after being thoroughly unimpressed with the core classes i observed, i decided that the intellectualism i thought existed everywhere on campus truly doesn't exist as it is rumored to. i am excited that a lot of really cool people who in know persynally will be attending next year, but i fear that they are too far and in between and in general, less impressive than students elsewhere. i truly thought that i would ultimately end up at uchicago, and i'm sort of disappointed that it didn't work out. I wanted to share my sentiments with you all because my guess is that many are you are in my position. that's my take on the nerd situation. i'll answer any other questions...(including questions about other schools
i also visited northwestern while I was in chicago)</p>
<p>You sound like you did have a horrible experience...however, with hundreds of courses and 4000 undergrads, maybe your visit was just an anomaly? Besides, Snell isn't supposed to be the most social place...I know that I would be much more inviting if I were a student while you had visited, and I always figure that there's other people like me there...Keep in mind you visited core classes--the classes EVERYONE has to take, whether they're interested or not. Had you visited an upper-level Econ or English class, I'll bet it would have been much more stimulating.</p>
<p>Anyways, about your first paragraph...many Chicago kids are Ivy-League rejects, that is true--but while you're at it, call NU, Duke and Berkeley kids dumb and uncreative, and you can see how silly that conclusion is. Also, I wouldn't call Chicago "easy" to get into (you're starting to sound pretty bitter towards the place)--sure, it may have a 40% acceptance rate, but the SATs and top 10% ranks are on par with other top 15 schools (you might call 79% in the 10% of HS class a low number...but don't forget, unlike some other top schools, Chicago reports for all matriculants, not just the best ones)...As for nerdiness not being reflected in marks, some kids were just plain disinterested in high school--in which case, it's quite an accomplishment to get a 3.8 and still not care.</p>
<p>caths2005,
thanks for posting - that's why its so important to visit. My son thought he would like MIT - until he visited. Great school for many, not for all. Best wishes at UPenn.</p>
<p>Caths2005: Thanks for posting. I am sorry you ran into those duds and had a bad experience in the Core class.
My daughter had a different experience. She stayed in Max with a very outgoing hostess who has many friends. She told my D that 50% of the students do stay in their rooms studying and are introverted. The other 50% are more social and do lots of fun things. Chicago seems to be a mixed bag.
I am glad your choice is so clear for you. I am sure you will do great at Penn.</p>
<p>caths2005
My D had similar experiences from yours. She was very impressed by the architecture, and the food, and thought that the lectures were very good, but she was not impressed by the student body. While they were very welcoming and friendly, there was no excitement, not even one said "OMG, you simply must choose Chicago, it's an amazing school," and many students actually said that they wish they had gone to one of their other choices.</p>
<p>I was really surprised to hear that, as everywhere else that she has visited, kids have been HAPPY to be attending there, and that was definitely missing.</p>
<p>While she did not dislike the school, she was quite disappointed.</p>
<p>I hope no-one comes on here to bash Cath2005, or call her conclusions "silly" . It looks like she went there with a very open mind, even prepared to love it, and if something does not feel right and good, it would be "silly" to overlook those gut feelings.</p>
<p>I wish I had the opportunity to visit. For a while I was torn between Chicago and Stanford, and ultimately chose Stanford because of the weather and suburban setting as opposed to urban. I would have loved to have been able to see both universities for myself before making that final decision.</p>
<p>I have heard a lot of first hand account of Chicago students and I must say your opinion belongs to the minority (actually you're the first to call Chicago student less bright). Its not just guide books, it is students who are currently going there (my teacher gave me links to his former students who got in), recruiters, friends, etc; they all agreed that there is an intellectual electricity at Chicago that is second to none. </p>
<p>I think you just had a bad experience, which is why I don't really believe in visiting. I also have a bias against UPenn and I am sure it is not true. One of my classmates got into UPenn and he is probably the poster boy for nerds. He is absolutely a moron and cannot hold a conversation without studying the prewritten conversation before hand. He never debate in class, never. He just sits back and takes notes and studies. He participates in community service events that I host and I have to tell him how to blow up a balloon because he is just that dumb and inadequate (a warning that he will he might be your classmate next year). He doesn't represent UPenn kids and I'm sure your observation skills aren't great enough to determine the quality of students at a university in one day. So yea, I do think your conclusion is silly.</p>
<p>thanks for your imput, everyone. perhaps it was a bad experience, but let me say that it was only bad when i compared it to my experiences visiting other schools. i saw chicago first, and then northwestern. it was pouring rain and my mom and i were lugging our bags around campus and two freshmen stoped us and asked us if we needed help, started telling me about the school, and invited me to visit a class--which i did! i liked chicago when i was there, but when i reflected on all of my experiences, that is when i realized the student body was a lot less peppy. i met a TON of kids at chicago, and i simply didn't encounter anyone who was truly excited about the school, except my host who was a terrific friend from home. another example--i ate at a house table for dinner and everyone was very quiet while they were eating! seems odd. but anyhow, i still respect the school and those who go there.</p>
<p>by the way ohio mom- my brother attends MIT and hates it as well! in fact, he disliked it when he visited, but my parents really wanted him to go. i'm glad your son was able to make up his own mind about it</p>
<p>Isn't it interesting that so many diferent kids had so many different experiences - Chicago really does have diversity! There is someone for everyone. Out tour guides last summer were so upbeat about Chicago, that was what sold my D. And she had a great experience - her host was bubbly - our BJ dorm tour guide was, also, and my D can't wait to do the musical chairs game. (If the $ is right)</p>
<p>caths2005 -
sorry to hear about your brother - but maybe things will go better in his later years. I am glad that you will be attending your school of choice!</p>
<p>"if they're so 'nerdy' then why isn't their 'nerdiness' reflected in their scores/etc.?"</p>
<p>The SAT scores for the mid 50% (class of 2008) are 13601490...not exactly low.</p>
<p>"I think you just had a bad experience, which is why I don't really believe in visiting."</p>
<p>Visiting is honestly one of the smartest things you can do to pick a school. The potential to make a mistake exists, but a far greater likelyhood exists that you will find whether or not a school is right for you.</p>
<p>Although I posted this elsewhere, for what it is worth, my S had a great time. He thought the students were fun and the conversations wonderful. He stayed up to 3:30 AM talking, and part of that time going over calc proofs with his host, who got visibly excited anytime the subject of math came up.</p>
<p>Also for the record, a couple of years ago I spoke with a friend who is connected to the admissions office and for that past admissions year, for the students accepted at both Yale and Chicago, the majority chose Chicago. From what I understand the number flip flops from year to year. Further, there are students not admitted to Chicago that are admitted to an Ivy. Chicago's admission process is quite different from others. They are not looking at only the numbers, GPA & test scores, but at how the essays are put together, the recommendations, and whether or not a person is of the likely intellectual frame of mind to benefit from Chicago. They do not admit students for their administration to look good, but for their faculty, and the student community.</p>
<p>I find idad to be quite intelligent in his analysis. People tend to look at simple statistics and draw immature and idiotic conclusions (since an average tall person will make more than an average short person, therefore, my life is predetermined). Life is more complex than that.</p>
<p>Idad, actually Yale's revealed preference ranking shows that significantly more people choose Yale over Chicago (I don't have the list on hand, but I know Yale was top three and chicago around 20).</p>
<p>My daughter attends Chicago and loves it there, so I am biased. I can, however, say that overnight visits have good and bad aspects. For example, if you have a "dud" host, it will color your view of the school (and your impression could be very wrong). My daughter visited Chicago twice, but never did an overnight (the idea of spending the night with a stranger just seemed forced to her). </p>
<p>Anyway, her first day visit to Chicago was great. She loved her interviewer and the tour guide was friendly and helpful. After she was admitted and accepted Chicago's offer, we went on a family vacation to Chicago. Since her dad had not been along on the first tour, we toured again. This time, the tour guide was ditzy, seemingly immature and completely unimpressive. The feel of the school was totally different, just based upon the personality of the tour guide! </p>
<p>Also, my daughter was an Emory Scholar finalist. She went to scholars weekend and her hostess was too busy to be bothered with my daughter and the other scholar she was hosting. My D wasn't particularly bothered, but the other girl felt at loose ends because their hostess wasn't helpful or welcoming. (My D was more intrigued by the fact that her hostess had a major paper due in two days and she had not begun any research -- and didn't seem concerned about it.) In any case, my D came home with a negative view of Emory, just based upon the scholars weekend. I have maintained since then that she probably would have been happy at Emory, but one weekend made it seem like it was not for her.</p>
<p>What I am trying to say, in my roundabout way, is that first impressions can be deceiving. I think a well-adjusted person can find happiness at almost any school, if they are open-minded and willing to extend the effort.</p>
<p>Exactly why I don't believe in visiting (and because the trip will cost money).</p>
<p>Everybody here can tell I am a hardcore Chicago loyalist but I'm gonna stop arguing. As far as I am concerned, I got into the best school on earth for my subject of interest: economics.</p>
<p>That is overall preference, I believe, not those admitted to both. And, as I said in the post, these data were a couple of years old. Still, Chicago is unique in its approach. It could lighten up the Core, it could market and promote itself to increase applications, it could only admit the very highest scoring (unless it decided to get back into bigger time sports), it could inflate its grading system some, it could go to ED rather than EA. In a couple of years it could vying for USNWR top 4, but then it would not be Chicago, it would, well, be another Ivy... This is why I personally like Chicago, and there is another college (and I'm sure there are more) that even more stands against the mainstream, and that is eerily similar to Chicago, and that is Reed College.</p>