<p>Well two days ago, I was at a party hosted one of my parents’ friends and guess who I met? That’s right…a Harvard ADCOM!!! I had an interesting discussion with him for about 2 hours and here are some common misconception on CC regarding Harvard that I would like to clear up after getting a professional’s opinion.</p>
<li>Essays/EC’s>>SAT’s/GPA: There I said it. Harvard cares more about essays/EC’s than standardized tests or grades. I mean you can’t fail high school and get into Harvard, but you don’t have to be an “academic superstar”. As long as you are within Harvard’s range in all the quantifiable areas or somewhere close, your decision basically rests on those essays/EC’s.</li>
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<p>I highly doubt a Harvard admissions officer was at a party two days ago because admissions officers have already started to meet and make decisions on applicants and they're truly busy day in and day out. </p>
<p>hideANDseek: I was deferred EA and admitted in March. I wasn't ISEF, Intel, I didn't have all my scores 750+ range. I wasn't even 1st or 2nd in my class. I wasn't an athletic recruit either. Harvard, again, places great emphasis on the essay/EC and seeing if you fit in at Harvard rather than base their decision on your current achievements. That is why you see academic allstars and geniuses getting rejected from Harvard because they would not fit in Harvard's culture.</p>
<p>Damn I didn't finish up my post cuz I had to get off the computer for a while. Oh yea, I forgot to mention that he's no longer a Harvard adcom...he was in the admissions committee during the 1990s.</p>
<p>Anyway, some more revelations...</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Sports DO MATTER.</p></li>
<li><p>Science/Math/Music is harder to become distinguished in since a lot of applicants are strong in these areas. USAMO, ISEF, INTEL, etc. aren't necessarily impressive but they do show some interest and thats always a plus.</p></li>
<li><p>TASP is the most impressive summer program in the eyes of Harvard admissions. He noted that TASPers usually write the most creative essays and often have the unique/diverse personalities/experiences that H is looking for. Only a few TASPers ahve ever been rejected from Harvard. RSI/Jobs/Community Service Projects fall on the next level of "prestige".</p></li>
<li><p>URM/Socioeconomic status/Legacy aren't really "tip factors' any more. They only have a limited benefit and it must be apparent that the student has overcome challenges.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>So where are the boundries on the Standardized tests/GPA/Rank? </p>
<p>I mean is it 700 in every SAT section then, or what? How about the ACT? (You're from the midwest) Is 30 enough? How about 32? Is it just what all of us suspected-34?</p>
<p>How low can you go with GPA? 3.7? How about 3.6? (uw) How do they look at rising GPA if your average is low?</p>
<p>What about Class rank? Is top 10% enough? How about top 5% or top 10? Did you talk about that?</p>
<p>There are no boundaries. I would pick up Chuck Hughes' book on admissions and what he says is definitely true of Harvard College admissions.</p>
<p>TASP is the Telluride Program. Google it. I think they have a program at several colleges, including Cornell. </p>
<p>No one program is impressive. What you make of your resources while still being humble and still being able to give back to your community and others is impressive.</p>
<p>I think the general GPA/SAT expectation is very high. I recall an "academic 1" (meaning the best) at Harvard used to mean rank 1 or 2 w/ 700+ on all standardized tests. I believe this still stands, and it seems consistent with the fact that GPA is more important than the SAT. So I think the academic bar is set by Val/Sal w/ 700+. However, I still believe that all 800s can make a substantial impact on an application; it's just the benefit is less than that which can be gleaned through stellar performance in the intangible areas.</p>
<p>EDIT: It's not impossible to be admitted w/o the above stats, but I think chances drop off dramatically.</p>
<p>The deadline for TASP has already passed so if you're a high school junior, forget it. Oh well. Thanks anyways. (Its weird how many interesting things I've never heard of exist.)</p>
<p>Also, Does anyone have a good idea of how this "academic" system works? What is a 2 (etc.)? My question in particular is how much do my chances drop if I have a rising gpa trend (Now it is a 4.0, but it used to be a lot closer to a 3.0-needless to say, my rank is low (22/365) (which isnt that bad, but hey, its Harvard.)</p>
<p>Sharkbite, I feel I can answer your question as I am a senior with a similar situation and I have looked into it extensively. An upward trend is great but keep in mind you are competing with 3,000 valedictorians and many other 4.0s for approximately 2,000 spots. Another haunting statistic is from Brown, who stated that of those ranked in the top 6-10% of their high school class only 8% were accepted. I have to wonder how many of these were "hooked" applicants, so I have a tendency to believe that the percent of unhooked applicants accepted is exceedingly low for Brown and even moreso for Harvard. I believe for you high SAT scores are a must to even by a competitive applicant, and even then Harvard is so competitive you may be out of luck. HOWEVER, if you go to an extremely competitive school everything I said may be discounted. An extremely competitive school would be one in which it is not absolutely shocking if someone outside the first decile is accepted to an Ivy League school; most of these schools do not rank.</p>
<p>I'm not positive about the academic system, but I believe I am on for the academic 1. </p>
<p>And lastly, it's always worth a try - esp. w/ Harvard using the Common App. Good luck to you!</p>
<p>Hey guess what. There's going to be a Harvard alumini reception/tour at the art center where I volunteer! I signed up to volunteer for that day. I might meet my interviewer(hopefully not, since I didn't really like him). Is there anything I can do to help my chances, to leave a good impression?</p>
<p>Oh yeah to answer shark_bite's academic-related questions:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>GPA: 3.8+ UW is good generally but make sure to take the HARDEST COURSELOAD possible...thats key. Harvard needs to know that you like challenging yourself and you have sincere passion for learning, not just merely hording a valedictorian position. You should try to be within top 5% of class unless there are extenuating circumstances such as a very difficult private school/curriculum disparities, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>He said that 2100+ on the new SAT will make you a reasonable candidate for Harvard. Obviously, the higher the score the better and vice-versa. After a student reaches 2250, higher SAT scores usually bring diminishing returns as they are no play a central role in the admissions decision. The Harvard rep also kept reiterating that scores are just one part of the applicaton and are secondary to the usually more important factors of talent/personality. ACT: 32+ is desirable.</p></li>
<li><p>The most important thing that I learned from my conversation with the Harvard adcom is that applicants need to show why they specifically would benefit from Harvard and what qualities in particular that they possess which would help them succeed at H. In the end, Harvard is looking for the "right fit" when choosing a class so it always has a balanced set of scholars annually.:)</p></li>
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<p>Wow, that Brown statistic is extremely disheartening...My school is not competative, we have very few kids attened Ivy League colleges, most attend the University of Wisconsin system. Madison is most kids goal-we are a feeder school for the UW system.</p>
<p>Also, do those sports have to be offered by the school? I mean, I ran a marathon, but there is no marathon running team at Harvard.</p>
<p>So, is it down to this? You need a 4.0/ val/ 2250 to be even considered and then EC's etc. come in to play? The student who has excelent ECs and other things but who doesnt have the perfect grades/tests is out of luck I guess. There was an interview with an Amherst adcom, and he said that the number one reason for rejecting someone is for grades.</p>
<p>What if you did particularly bad one year that brought your GPA down to a ~3.7UW? Even though I took the hardest classes(definitely), I had to transfer after my junior year. What was my hardest courseload is not considered the hardest in my new school! I have more AP's than most people in my class but they have MANY more honors!! I've complained so much about this in so many threads...<em>sigh</em>.</p>
<p>Well, here is what I'm wondering. Take this Hypothetical Applicant.</p>
<p>2100 Sat
700 Sat2(s)
Good ECs-leadership-some community service-contests how about even a state victory.
Essay/Recs-Good/Average</p>
<p>Lets say that this is the slightly below average applicant. Already they are weak, but they have enough to be considered.</p>
<p>Now add in a rising Gpa instead of a perfect 4.0 lets say this HA (hypothetical applicant) is in the top 10%, but not the top 5%.</p>
<p>Immedietly they will be rejected because they don't have the grades. Or will they? Lets say the EC's were fantastic and unique. Better then average-excellent even. Are they enough to outweigh the early bad grades?</p>
<p>What would an adcom say? What do you think the former adcom you talked to would have said? Would they immedietly reject? I mean, they have plenty of Val's etc. applying. Or would the EC's balance it out?</p>
<p>Yes, TASP is <em>very</em> well represented here and at similar schools. However it's a little bit disingenuous to imply that it's a program that matters when test scores don't, because for all intents and purposes you need a 99th percentile PSAT score to even be eligible to apply to TASP. (You can also qualify via a recommendation letter, I think.)</p>
<p>I think people are missing the main point here. Harvard College, after it deems you are able to handle the work here, focuses exclusively on your essays and your extracurricular activities. Of course, it helps if you are an amazing academic person, and of course, it helps if you are an amazing extracurricular person, but I've met plenty of people here who didn't win ISEF when they were like in the third grade or something. I've also met plenty of people who weren't val/sal and didn't win any national awards or were athletic recruits. There are people here like that, and it's not really the minority.</p>
That’s right…a Harvard ADCOM!!! I had an interesting discussion with him for about 2 hours and here are some common misconception on CC regarding Harvard that I would like to clear up after getting a professional’s opinion.</p>