<p>LOL!!!It's the Kuder preference test! I remember it well. Sexist!!! It did have this weird section for girls in which it told you what you could be IF you were male--just in case you were an uppity female who thought that girls shouldn't be limited to careers in teaching, social work, nursing/dental hygenist, or clerical/secretarial work. (ALL girls got one of those as their career options.)</p>
<p>drb- if you say, "she did a NOLS summer course in Wyoming and loved it." why does she need to take a test at all? By "loved it," unless you are exaggerating, she already has something she likes (or loves) to do. there are tons of schools with outdoor type autmosphere that are liberal arts colleges, with or without equestrian programs. In CA, there is one of CSU's and Humbolt State(a private school). She would most likely want a college where there are others to share her interest in the outdoors, and located to take advantage of outdoor adventures near the college. Just my 2cents.</p>
<p>We all have things we love to do - but don't pursue as a career. Maybe we should.
(I was on a ski trip once - the head guide says to me: "You're not bad. You just need to ski more." This from a guy who skis for a living. Well, not entirely. In the summer he is a climbing guide.)
But you are right - these interests will definitely factor into her school choice. I just wonder what she will do if wrangling horses does not work out.</p>
<p>Actually one of the best articles I ever read concerning these types of issues was in an AARP magazine :D that talked about vocations, careers, and jobs.Follow</a> Your Dream
PS I second Humboldt as a great place for outdoor types. My biggest worry now is how to get my son to leave the area after he graduates. He thinks he's in heaven.</p>
<p>TA, you may wish to quibble about rigor, but I found Myers-Briggs to be one of two most useful psych books I ever encountered. (I normally flea from self-help books as if they were laden with plague.) Someone recommended PLEASE UNDERSTAND ME to me and I was reading it and just when I got to the point where I said to myself, "This is b.s., nobody would ever...." I had a moment of epiphany and realized that the SJ description accounted for a whole broad range of people who had always driven me (a moderately extreme NT) nuts. </p>
<p>I think that some try to overgeneralize the application but I found it useful to consider in educational models, what type works with whom, etc. And using it as a litmus indicator, I've noted fields that are over-populated (compared to normal distribution) with one type or another. If I talk to someone for 20-30 minutes, I can usually figure out how they'll test. In fact, I'm pretty accurate at telling people, if it comes up in conversation, what their four scales are and in many cases whether it's slight, moderate, or extreme. As a conceptual tool, I've found it very useful.</p>
<p>Hi, TheDad, you may be interested in these articles: </p>
<p>Forer</a> effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia </p>
<p>Personal</a> Validation Fallacy </p>
<p>WWW:</a> The fallacy of personal validation </p>
<p>Forer</a> effect </p>
<p>Myers-Briggs</a> Type Indicator </p>
<p>Has</a> the Myers Briggs Personality Test any value at all ? - Yahoo! Answers </p>
<p><a href="http://www.hha.dk/man/cmsdocs/WP/2006/2006-05.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.hha.dk/man/cmsdocs/WP/2006/2006-05.pdf</a> </p>
<p>I'd encourage anyone reading this thread with scientific training to take a close look at these articles.</p>
<p>Our GC has a number of Interest Inventory/Aptitude tests on file, including Meyers Briggs. He gives them to students on a schedule, but also will retest, on demand, and then helps them evaluate the results. Any chance of that at your D's school?</p>
<p>TA, I read at least part of all seven of your links and 1-4 are essentially true-but-irrelevant in that the phenomenon they describe is true but there is no linkage going on to invalidate Myers-Briggs.</p>
<h1>6 is nothing more than some people on line shooting the breeze like three people in a bar, with nothing to give particular credence to the view. Iow, that's nice...so what?</h1>
<h1>5 is simply thin and is nowhere near approaching a rigorous treatment, let alone refutations.</h1>
<h1>7 loses any credibility when it starts by talking about phrenology and then attempts a guilt-by-association tactic for MB.</h1>
<p>Certainly, MB can be oversold and I've seen it so.</p>
<p>But consider the four main axes:</p>
<p>Do you not think that people approach problems via Thinking vs. Feeling in different proportions? Yes, everyone uses both and I don't think anyone suggests otherwise. But does one or the other often dominate? </p>
<p>[And fwiw, a close reading of MB does not postulate either/or ratings. I consistently test fairly close to balance on the E/I scale, at the extreme N on the N/S scale and moderately high T on the T/F scale, mildly P on the P/J scale. Fairly consistently, as in multiple testings over 20 years. I've tended to become a little less I, a little more F, and little more P but the basic pattern and evolution maps pretty well to what other people would see.]</p>
<p>One of your links shows a complete lack of understanding about what the N/S scale is about. N doesn't mean "intutive" in the vernacular sense of the word. The best way I've found to describe N vs. S is living in your head vs. living through your senses. I'm a pretty extreme N and tend to process the world in mental constructs rather than through my senses (and did some of the women I dated object to that). Obviously, I use my senses all the time to experience my environment but I tend not to take it a face value. (The N/S scale was the one that made me sit up straight when I first read it...it described why the majority, approx 75 percent, of the population is so weird.)</p>
<p>I really don't like the Judging vs. Perceiving labels. Looking at the keywords and underlying descriptions, I think "Goal-Oriented" vs. "Process Oriented" conveys a more accurate sense. </p>
<p>So, first question is, do you think that people won't tend to have their fairly stable dominant niches along those scales?</p>
<p>====</p>
<p>"We Virgos don't believe in astrology."</p>
<p>Re Forer effect, cf., Hawthorne effect.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So, first question is, do you think that people won't tend to have their fairly stable dominant niches along those scales?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It doesn't matter what I think. Where is the evidence that people do?</p>
<p>I don't understand why being undecided in a major/career would be the primary reason for taking a gap year. Most HS seniors are undecided, and even those who are "sure" of their major end up switching it multiple times. College is the best time for learning about yourself and finding your passions...no one has their whole life planned out at 17! </p>
<p>If your DD doesn't have top grades or test scores, she might consider a good state school. Because of their size, state schools offer a ton of different majors that she could explore, plus plenty of ECs that would fulfill her interests. I've also heard of some schools where you can bring your own horse to campus and house it in the on-campus stables. I can't remember which schools offered this, but I think they were mostly in the south. </p>
<p>As for Myers-Briggs: this may sound corny, but it literally changed my life. As another poster mentioned, I would highly recommend the book "PLEASE UNDERSTAND ME." I've learned so much about myself and how to deal with different types of people. Things that used to drive me insane about certain people I've now learned to accept as part of who they are. It's really eye-opening to learn about people and how different types relate to others; it's definitely improved a lot of my relationships. As for using the Myers-Briggs for career recommendations, I would this is valuable only up until a certain point. I would not suggest simply taking the test and seeing that "Oh, it says i should be a teacher or a social worker so maybe I'll explore that." I would say the most valuable part of the test is really learning all about yourself - your strengths, your weaknesses, your preferences - and then applying that knowledge to possible career options.</p>
<p>Let's take the two easier scales first and, yes, you think may have some bearing: do you not think that people have preferences on processing of thinking vs. feeling? (The Star Trek system: Spock or Bones?)</p>
<p>Or that it's twaddle that most people are extroverted or introverted and can plausibly be arranged along a scale?</p>
<p>Dna3, I think MB is probably least useful in determining occupational niches though I'll bet that engineers predominantly test as NT's and that writers have a disproportional number of NF's. And that the military has a lot of SJ's, as do higher levels of non-technical business people. I too have had my moments of epiphany. I'm not nearly as accepting as the book says I should be but I at least understand why an SJ or an NF drives me nuts. (Though there is something of a moth to candle effect I experience with female NF's...fascinate me but drive me nuts.)</p>
<p>====</p>
<p>Btw, TA, if there's nothing to it, how would you propose to explain why I can usually type someone fairly well, with a high degree of accuracy, to the point of not only scales but where along some of the scales, if I've only known them for a couple of weeks or talked to them for half an hour. Reverse engineering at work.</p>
<p>As opposed to something like astrology, which is random woo-woo.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As opposed to something like astrology, which is random woo-woo.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Have you done a validation study on both? </p>
<p>I ask: what do you observe in the world?</p>
<p>N.B., many things that aren't precisely quantifiable are also nonetheless true.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't understand why being undecided in a major/career would be the primary reason for taking a gap year.
[/quote]
It is not the indecision re career or major that compelled the suggestion, it is D's lack of enthusiasm for school (or, more accurately, schoolwork) altogther. As such, a year off would be an opportunity to explore non-academic avenues, or at least to mature a bit so that returning to school might be more fruitful. </p>
<p>And D does not have a horse.</p>