So true.
âmost of the kids getting into the top conservatories have the kind of resources (financial, or a parent who knows how to navigate scholarships and such to music programs before college, and parental support to be able to shepherd them to lessons and so forth, or live in a place like NYC where the kids can do a lot on their own. In many ways classical music is very elitist, it is not the place of horatio alger stories, and has gotten only more and more tough as time has gone on.â
Amen as well. Iâve seen this happen in my daughterâs California Youth Symphony. She couldnât compete financially but has competed artistically and intellectually, and is now joining CMUâs flute program with scholarship.
Hey everyone!! SOOO thereâs a whole lot of BS about NYOUSA in this thread⊠so as someone who has actually DONE it multiple times, let me clear some stuff up!
QUOTE: As for NYO-USA, itâs NOT really based on all skills. They pick the musicians based on geographical diversity as well as racial diversity to ensure that it looks âUSA.â""
This is absolutely false. Acceptance is entirely based off of skills. Every single person in the orchestra plays at a very high level. If they were really going for geographical diversity, they would have people from every single state represented, which ISN"T THE CASE. IIRC, there are some states that have never had a student do NYO.
u/Musicprnt has been saying a lot of falsehoods as well, I donât even know where to begin.
QUOTE: NYO-USA players may not necessarily be at an elite level or even at the level of some of the youth orchestras out there, for the reason that they exclude many of the best players (by design)
WRONG. The vast majority of musicians in NYO are high school students. The very few people in college are usually those who have already been in it. NYO Is first and foremost a high school program.
QUOTE: The whole point of NYO-USA was to give a broader range of kids the opportunity to play, and they are looking for diversity both geographical and in terms of underrepresented groups, like certain minority groups who donât often get the chance at things like this.
This is not true. They want to promote diversity in that the entire program is free of charge, which allows poorer people to attend a summer program, when most wouldnât be able to. If they only focused on diversity, there would be many more black/hispanic people in the orchestra, and many more poor people. If you look at pictures of the orchestra, therre really arenât that many people of color. Their new initiative, NYO2, was created to address this. But its innacurate to say people get into NYO for any reason other than musical ability. Each year they even reject a substantial number of reapplying alumni, because they want the BEST MUSICIANS.
If you could see the colleges these kids were going to, you would see just how high level NYO is. Many are going to Juilliard on Kovner scholarships, many are going to Curtis, thereâs people going Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia. These are the most advanced students in the country, and its pretty annoying to see people spreading misinformation about it. I decided to make an account just to clarify and tell the facts, because I donât want to see people not applying to NYO because of some online rumors.
Okay, rant over!! Have a nice night.
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Well, then NYO is going against what their website says, that it was designed to bring underrepresented people into the orchestra, they said that, not me. As far as it being free bringing in poorer kids, the problem with that is if as you say, the kids they are choosing are all elite level, the two donât coincide in the world of classical music, to get to those level of skills kids need significant resources, unless they are very, very lucky and get access to programs and such giving full scholarships. I never said NYO doesnât get top level music students, I am sure it does, being a national program it is attractive, especially to kids who donât have access to things like the top pre college programs or top youth orchestras. Like I said, when NYO was announced they made deliberate statements about who they wanted in the orchestra and why. The fact that they let kids who are going to conservatories after graduation (college seniors) and kids who are in top music programs like Juilliard/MSM/CIM prep et al. I also kind of think it is insulting to think that being diverse would mean assuming, as the lost poster did, that diversity=bad. By being free as the prior poster said it can help kids who otherwise couldnât afford it, but a lot of the top level youth orchestras are free (NYYS for example) and they are some of the best performing groups around.
The other reality is that NYO might have been thinking of getting kids who are underrepresented but the reality is many of them never even get into music, because there is little or no access. Groups like Sphinx are trying to help with that as are attempts like El Sistema in LA, but in classical music most of the people in it are white or Asian, and most of them are relatively financially well off and also tend to come from backgrounds where the kids are encouraged/exposed to classical music, whether it is parents who think doing music is important (for good and bad reasons), or because kids were exposed to music in schools (something a lot of black and hispanic kids are not). The only way to get real diversity is to promote music and give access across the board, and that is not the reality.
By the way @12345678910zzz, if you are going to go into music I would suggest losing the 'well,whatever I do is the best" or getting defensive when someone talks about programs, the people posting on here often have visibility to things others donât, I have heard the NYO play and while it is a great program, the playing level is not generally at the level that some of the prep orchestras and youth orchestras play at, and being around high level music students many of the ones who are in these programs donât do NYO, because they do high level programs in general, places like Aspen in the summer and so forth. No one said that NYO is a pickup orchestra or that it is no good, far from it, and I donât doubt some kids who go to NYO end up at top programs, statistically that is very likely, especially for kids who come from areas that donât have access to top level youth orchestras, summer programs and the like, and one thing about music performing opportunities, they all are unique. NYO is high level music with top level conductors, it is going to be well above the level of many all state programs for example, and also travels to perform which is great.
@12345678910ZZZ - Be careful about accusing othersâs posts as âBSâ when you could be full of it, instead. Just because youâve been a member of NYO-USA multiple times doesnât necessarily qualify you as an expert in the admissions process. Your statements come off more as being highly defensive and insecure. If I have an access to some of your performance videos, I could probably tell you why.
To my statements, you stated: âThis is absolutely false. Acceptance is entirely based off of skills. Every single person in the orchestra plays at a very high level. If they were really going for geographical diversity, they would have people from every single state represented, which ISN"T THE CASE. IIRC, there are some states that have never had a student do NYO.â
Except for your statement, âEvery single person in the orchestra plays at a very high level,â everything else you stated is false. I have no doubt in my mind that every musician in the NYO-USA plays at a high level, including yourself, Iâm sure. The NYO-USA is no joke. Itâs âtheâ national orchestra that needs high caliber members who can represent the nation when it travels around the globe. However, this doesnât mean that the members are the best of the best that they can find around the nation. You or anyone else can simply check out some YouTube videos of those current and past members of NYO-USA to easily figure that out. Iâm not going to embarrass those musicians by providing the links to those videos here. Personally, I also do know of those musicians who have made the NYO roster and I also do know of those musicians, who are definitely better than those who made it, who didnât make it.
A further proof that the NYO-USA is NOT made up of the best of the best in the nation: anyone who are familiar with the classical music scenes would know that there are remarkable number of young Asian-American musicians, particularly the strings. The state of California alone, for instance, has enough high school Asian-American violinists who are qualified and excellent enough to fill the ENTIRE violin section of the NYO-USA and spill over. Yet, how many Asian violinists made the 2013 roster? Only 2. How many Asian-American violinists made the 2014 roster? Only 2. How many Asian-American violinists made the 2015 roster? Only 2. This year, the number of total Asian-American violinists from California might have increased to 3. Whether you like it or not, there IS a quota on Asian-American musicians. The NYO-USA administrators DO NOT want to make the orchestra look, rightly or wrongly â thatâs debatable â like the Chinese National Orchestra. They like to keep the composition of the national orchestra to about 70% white and 30% Asian-Americans and other ethnic minority musicians. Thatâs why the application demands non-music skills portion, such as an essay and a personal video statement with which they can explain why someone â anyone at their own entire discretion REGARDLESS of SKILLS â didnât make the cut, if they have to. If, as you stated, the âacceptance is entirely based off of skills,â then they wouldnât need to require such non-music related materials, do they? What do essay and video oral presentation have to do with musical skills? Nothing. But they do provide political expediency, flexibility and freedom to make up the orchestra the way they see it from the national âinterestâ point of view.
Whoever came up with the NYO-USA admissions policy must have studied and copied the current Ivy League and other elite college admissions model, as theyâre remarkable similar. Just as a high school student with perfect 2400 SAT with 800âs in all subject tests and 4.0 GPA donât necessarily get into those top schools thanks to other criteria such as extracurricular activities, essays, LORâs, etc., the same admissions process applies to the NYO-USA. Just as these elite universities are not necessarily looking for perfect diversity, i.e., all states, regions and international countries represented on their campuses, the NYO-USA isnât necessarily looking for ALL 50 states represented, either â just enough to have a decent level of diversity is their goal. Just as these elite universities have a certain ârangeâ of qualification, the NYO-USA also has a certain range of âacceptable skills.â Therefore, if, say, Alaska, doesnât have any available high school musician in that range, theyâre not going to pick that person just because of wanting to have all 50 states represented in its orchestra membership. Your argument on geographical diversity is faulty, as well.
If you or anyone else have made the NYO-USA roster, then be proud that you have an opportunity to represent the country and accept my heart-felt congratulations for the honor. However, your membership doesnât mean you can go around declaring âBSâ to other posters as if you know things that others simply donât.
Moderators please lock, I think the conversation drifted far enough from the original topic of NAfME. Letâs just agree that NYO is a great summer opportunity for great musicians, so letâs just all eat a Snickers bar and be done with arguing.