Narrowing Down/Next Visits

College Search & Selection
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@isla701 Just read a little more of your thread and noticed you are considering Hamilton. S19 applied and got in there as well but we never ended up visiting. It’s hard to get there from Chicago and I also have heard about the hard partying. ALL colleges have drinking and parties and we did try to find out more details about each school on that front. We know two kids at Hamilton and, compared to the other schools on your list, I would have to agree that the partying seems a bit more intense there.

S19 also applied to Midd and was waitlisted. I don’t know what the history for Midd is at your high school but they seem to only take kids from our school ED as athletes. I do think he would have gotten in if he had applied ED. Our (athlete) friends who are students there would say that it’s beautiful and the academics are amazing. They would also say that half of the kids are athletes and stick with their teams socially as well. We were trying to find schools where cliques aren’t as set, where the athletes had friends outside of their sport and kids are friends with all types of kids. That worried us just a little bit as did the reputation that the boys were very frat boy like even though there aren’t any fraternities.

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@isla701 one more thing! Environmental science is not a thing at Grinnell. I think they try to have a few classes but I don’t believe there’s a major or a minor. S19 really liked Grinnell even with the location. Yes it’s a bubble but the support and the resources there are amazing. The school brings in tons of entertainment and the kids seem to have plenty to do.

The way S19 looked at it is that he has his whole life to live in a city and work and he liked the idea of being in an academic bubble to focus on school for this short four years.

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Did the OP identify which languages interested in? Many LACs will have the basic Romance languages, 1-2 Asian languages and perhaps Arabic, and may offer online or collaborative programs with other schools for additional languages. Beyond that, large universities are going to offer more breadth in different language offerings.

Lawrence and Wooster are great match/possible safeties, depending on scores. Lawrence has a lot of overlap, culturally, with Grinnell, in the sense there is a range of kids, not a dominant “type,” and a collaborative culture. Appleton is a small city, and with Lawrence’s Con, there is a vibrant music scene. Lawrence also seems generally open to College students participating at the Con – my kid had a long meeting with a faculty member on his instrument and they talked through how he might manage being at the College rather than the Con, participate in ensembles at the Con (basically, auditions are open to all students, not limited to Con students, and the “best” musician is placed in the “best” ensemble, and so down the list), and be a Varsity athlete. Lawrence also offers good merit money. We visited Wooster multiple times with my kid who was a recruited athlete there, and we did not see/hear about academic “intensity.” Yes, everyone talks about their IS, but I would not describe it as an intense academic environment. Nice kids, similar to Lawrence in that there is a range of “types.” Lovely campus, with a drop-dead gorgeous Science library, also gives merit money. I’ve also loved Mt Holyoke and Agnes Scott

I try not to answer threads in order to recommend my kid’s school, but Denison could be worth a look as it checks a number of boxes: Environmental Science department (with a 350 acre bio reserve on campus for research), a Poli Sci department strong in international/foreign affairs, including the Lugar Program International Track, which includes foreign language requirements, study abroad, and specific international-focused course work. Also, a blend of students and diversity of viewpoint – my go-to anecdote is that Reince Priebus and Jim Obergefell visited campus on back to back days, and Dems and Republicans attended both talks without protests to shut either speaker down. Granville is a lovely village/town, founded by MA abolitionists and looks like a charming New England village. Columbus airport is 25-30 min from campus, Ohio State is about 30 minutes away in the Short North, basically a college town. Relatively diverse student body – strong economic diversity, with about 20% Pell grant students plus lots of middle class kids drawn by merit money. Anyway, could be worth researching. Edited to add, also has an Educational Studies department/major, for what it’s worth in terms of OP’s interests, with classroom opportunities in nearby Newark/Heath which is a lower income area.

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As suggested earlier, survey results offer the benefit of responses originating from current students:

https://www.americancraftbeer.com/the-princeton-reviews-top-schools-for-beer-drinking/

https://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings?rankings=lots-hard-liquor

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^^Athletes at most schools spend a lot of time with their teams. And they develop friendships outside their teans, but often as the years pass as the teams are insta-friends. And when athletes leave their teams, they often expand their friend networks. This “stick with the team” social dynamic happens at some level everywhere and has a lot to do with how they spend their time. But it is rarely exclusive.

The non-athletes I know at Midd report pretty much the same experience as non-athletes at Bowdoin or any other comparable school. Whether you add it to your list is up to you, but if you like it, don’t knock it off for that.

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Thank you so much all! I don’t have a definite language preference just yet, but if a LAC has at least what @Midwestmomofboys described I think that’d be fine so long as the programs are strong and I’m not one of only two kids in my class who’s interested!

@homerdog, really really appreciate the input from you and your son! I have noticed many top LACs have a large number of athletes in the class, especially Davidson, although Midd perhaps a bit more so. Makes them more of a reach for me which is why I’m happy to have a lot of great match options. Does your son currently attend any of the colleges on my list? You seemed to suggest it a little bit with his thoughts about Grinnell, but I wasn’t completely sure.

Midwestmomofboys, thanks so much for taking the time to describe all of the Midwest schools, including Denison! I have definitely considered touring there. I know Greek life is pretty prevalent but not overbearing, which is fine with me. My parents always talk about how they attended one of the top Greek schools in the country, were not at all interested, and did great. Denison, I’ve heard, is also trying to change its reputation as Greek and conservative?
That’s really great about Priebus and Obergefell. Yay for healthy free speech environments. A close family member researches free speech on campus and it’s definitely an interesting topic to me. I found out NC recently passed a law that quickly threatens suspension and expulsion for students who disrupt a speaker more than once, which I never knew existed. Not the type to do that myself but it’s certainly interesting.

Thanks to AlmostThere2018 and gardenstategal for your input as well! (Sorry I don’t know if I’m bothering anyone by @'ing them.)

Somewhat unrelated but I gave myself a practice PSAT yesterday and got a 1470/1520. I’m assuming that’s good news and means I’m not out of range for schools here. I was very strong on two sections, decently strong on one and one needs work so I’ll be working on that one. Plan to take either the SAT or ACT late in the semester but really don’t know which. I’m taking a required ACT in the winter, but a 1470/32 is decently comparable so I’m not sure.

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Also, on the NE trip, I toured Wesleyan and liked it decently- does anyone have any input on whether that would be a school to consider? Def another reach and don’t want to apply to too many. It seems they have an IR “certificate” and very strong Poli Sci and psychology.

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Wes is a great school. Most of the highly selective LACs are a reach for everyone, but if you liked it, you should apply. If that’s the vibe that appealed to you, it could help you refine your list.

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@isla701 S19 is at Bowdoin. In the end, he narrowed it down to Bowdoin and Davidson. He’s only been at school for three weeks but so far he’s reporting that it’s a 10/10. Can’t find any downsides. Classes are interesting and challenging, students friendly, dorm room is amazing (separate living and bedrooms in every double), food is over-the-top yummy. It was the right choice for him. We are a full pay family and so Grinnell remained on the table until the end with $25,000/merit per year. $100,000 is a lot of money but we felt the difference was worth it for him.

I remain surprised that Carleton didn’t end up being one of the final two. He visited and liked it and we have family in MN. I really thought that’s where he would choose but Maine was calling him and he’s so happy there.

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Thank you again gardenstategal! Homerdog, thank you too, and I’m so happy your son loves Bowdoin! I have heard great things about the food haha, it sounds like an awesome school. Picking reaches will be difficult but I’ll work it out somehow.

Does anyone have any advice on a good location to fly to in order to do some Midwest tours? I was thinking maybe fly to MSP and tour Mac and Carleton or Detroit and tour Denison, Wooster and maybe Kenyon though not sure about the complete isolation there. (I’m saying Detroit instead of Columbus because I grew up in the Toledo area and I’m thinking we’d pay visits to friends there before heading south.) Schools like Lawrence and Grinnell might be really hard to visit though, did anyone’s kids apply to schools they didn’t visit? Or with Midwest schools did you commit to long car trips between locations?

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We didn’t visit a handful of schools that S19 applied to. We live in the midwest so we were able to get to the schools in the midwest easily so, for us, it was some of the east coast schools that didn’t get visited. We saw Kenyon and Denison on the same two day trip. They are only 30-40 minutes from each other. Coming from the north, I think you will hit Wooster first, then Kenyon, then Denison.

We also saw Mac and Carleton on the same trip. S19 wasn’t a fan of Mac. Didn’t feel like he fit with the kids very well and really liked how Carleton wasn’t in the city. That was the trip that we realized he wanted the more rural bubble.

I think people fly to DesMoines and then drive an hour to get to Grinnell. I think it’s just fine to apply without visiting and then visit if you get in if you like. It’s a four hour drive for us so we just drove.

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Depending on how much time you have, and other parameters, certainly, Carleton, Mac and St Olaf’s can be done by flying into Twin Cities, with perhaps Mac on one day and Carleton and St Olaf on another day. Ohio schools are another 2 day trip – fly into Columbus, then Denison is 25 minutes away, Kenyon 45 minutes past Denison, and Wooster another hour or so. Or fly into Cleveland, and go Wooster, Kenyon, Denison. One could fly into Columbus the night before, go to Denison in the morning, Kenyon in the afternoon, then drive up to Wooster after Kenyon in order to visit the next morning, then drive back to Columbus airport after Wooster visit on day 2.

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Yesterday, I had to laugh at @Midwestmomofboys ’ comment about trying not to respond just to push your own kid’s school, as I was also thinking about saying something about Denison, where my son is a first year. But now that you’ve asked . . . we were also wary of Denison’s reputation as being Greek, conservative, preppy, etc., but it became clear to us that, while that might have been the school twenty or thirty years ago, it’s very different today. There is a Greek presence but it’s not that large and the fraternities and sororities don’t live in separate houses, they are mixed in with everyone else in the dorms. And it’s clearly not conservative, although the student body may be somewhat less political over all than some others. The current president Adam Weinberg has a background in international education and has made great strides in making the school more diversified. My son loved the school at first sight last spring and so far, it is living up to all of his hopes and expectations. I’ve read on here where some other kids took one look and didn’t like it, YMMV, but I would encourage you to take a look. Kenyon’s very close by, so it’s easy to see both.

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@isla701 already said she’s flying to Detroit to visit family before the OH trip so she would see Wooster first like I mentioned above. I wanted to mention, too, to sit in on class if you can. That was a big way that S19 could fess out what kind of students were at each school. He thought professors were terrific at all schools you’ve mentioned but the students varied. He thought Carleton kids seemed the most intense. Thought Grinnell kids were the friendliest and most diverse. Kenyon kids didn’t seem all that happy or engaged in class. He was the only one answering questions in the physics class he sat in on. If you’re going to bother visiting a school, do everything you can to see if you can see yourself as a student there.

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I suggest you visit these schools and form your own opinions. As a parent guiding my own college-bound children I was hesitant to suggest changes to their lists, particularly with respect to dropping schools, based on posts about visits by children of people I don’t know who are on CC. For every story about students seemingly not engaged (as posted above by homerdog) there can be several about the same school stating the opposite. As for Kenyon specifically, I have a child there, now a senior. She has found classes to be engaging, challenging and intellectually stimulating. She has consistently reported that there are lively discussions taking place in her classrooms. Perhaps the experience of a student at the school should carry more weight than that of a one time visitor.

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@apple23 I agree with you. No one should rule out Kenyon because our S didn’t have a good experience in class. That being said, for him, it made a difference. He visited twice and stayed overnight too. He could only go on what he experienced and made decisions based on that. Was it a fair assessment? Probably not. But he had better experiences at other schools and, at some point, one has to make a decision based on what they know.

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@homerdog
I’m not suggesting anything about your son or his experiences, I’m simply cautioning others not to make decisions about where to visit based solely on the visit reports of others posting on CC. Your son had better visits elsewhere. My daughter had an extremely positive visit at Kenyon as a prospective student, and has had a transformative academic experience there. Bowdoin is a fantastic school, and one for which my daughter would have been a triple legacy. However, her visit there was not the positive experience your son had. I think what is important to acknowledge here is that we are fortunate to have so many fantastic college options for our children. How lucky for us that your son and my daughter were able to find their ideal fits.

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Your basis for this impression is not entirely clear to me, but you may be considering comments from posters who haven’t spent much, if any, time on campus. To refresh your perspective, search “Academic Showstopper.” This independent source – within which you will encounter no reference to drinking – should sufficiently encourage your continued interest in Hamilton.

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Sorry for the late response, but huge thank you to @homerdog, @Midwestmomofboys and @tkoparent for all of your input!! You’ve thoroughly exhausted me of questions. Will let you know if I have any more after meeting with my mom about college stuff in a few days.

@apple23 and @merc81, do not worry- I don’t evaluate based on the first thing I read! I look at trends in opinion, but still continue to question them as they are not necessarily fact. Thanks for reinforcing that idea to future posters.

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@merc81: Hamilton College has a high rate of retention, has a great reputation regarding academics, but also has a well known drinking culture which is easily verified by research. Should be a factor to consider. Will be a positive for some and a negative for others.