Narrowing down top 20 college choices

College Search & Selection
21

<p>When you apply as a freshman to Berkeley intending to major in business, you need to declare "Undecided - Pre-Business" major. You then apply to Haas business school during your sophomore year, for admittance starting your junior year.</p>

<p>For continuing Berkeley students, last year Haas admitted 53% of the applicants. The middle 80% GPA range of admitted students was 3.43-3.90. There are no guarantees, but it's a top program if you're admitted.
Undergraduate</a> Program - Admissions - Haas School of Business</p>

<p>Since you're applying to Berkeley and are in-state, just check off some other UC campuses and pay the additional registration fees...Minimal effort and small price to pay for greater peace of mind.</p>

22

<p>personally, i cant decide what colleges u should apply to unless i know some stats... what clubs r u involved in? do you volunteer? did u take any AP courses? if so, what was ur score in them? SAT II's? What do you plan to do over summer?</p>

<p>Post these and then i can definately give you an answer
also, ur list includes top notch universities, keep in mind that you need to stand out from everyone else in order to get in. </p>

<p>Can you please look at my post and see what you think?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

23

<p>Not meaning to scare you... but to put in context how important it is to have safeties (which you have none on your list),</p>

<p>these are the stats of some of my friends who got rejected across the board at the ivies + MIT/Stanford/Duke (I'll leave out the extra-curriculars but rest assured they all had plenty of meaningful ones)</p>

<p>4.0UW GPA at Magnet HS Program + Siemen's Westinghouse award + 2320 SAT's</p>

<p>3.92UW GPA + RSI (Research Sience Institute aka most prestigiou science program in the nation), 36 ACT, 2380 SAT</p>

<p>3.87UW GPA + MOSP (United States Olympic Math Team Summer Program)</p>

<p>3.95UW GPA + IchO Silver Medalist (United States OLYMPIC CHEMISTRY TEAM won Silver medal in the International chemistry olympics)</p>

<p>I don't mean to be cynical when I say this, but a 32 ACT and a 4.0UW GPA at a normal HS program puts you in the middle of the pact in terms of applicants and honestly, a 32 is not that competitive at all when you're talking aboub the top Ivy programs, MIT, and Stanford</p>

<p>If you are URM on the other hand... ignore everything I just said</p>

24

<p>For additional information:
SAT 2 math 2: 720 (I will retake and expect 780+)
SAT 2 chem: 710
I am also taking sat 2 US history and I expect 750+</p>

<p>For my ACT score, that was before studying. Once I finish studying I expect to raise my score to a 34+</p>

<p>I will have taken 14 APs by when I graduate. I take the hardest classes my school offers. </p>

<p>I will have 2 tech based internships this summer and had one last year.</p>

<p>I do debate (will be pres or vice pres next year)
prez of political club
student congress director
prez of social action youth group (community service stuff)
treasurer of student literary magazine
NHS member</p>

<p>I hope this extra information helps...</p>

25

<p>Wharton
Harvard
Columbia
Brown
Stanford
CMC
Berkeley
Georgetown</p>

<p>I like this list + 2 matches w/ avg. ACT score ranges of ~27 - 32 and 2 safeties w/ avg. ACT ranges of ~24-28. (and if finances are of concern, make sure you have fin. safeties too.)</p>

<p>You might even want to take out like 2 of those super reaches (Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, and Columbia.) That will leave you w/ a solid list of 10 colleges.</p>

26

<p>Do you want urban, suburban, or rural? That's an important thing to take into account. I'm sure there are lots of people who go to Dartmouth or Amherst for the Academics and reputation and then end up complaining that there's nothing to do on the weekends.</p>

27

<p>Wharton
Harvard
Columbia
Brown
Stanford
CMC
Berkeley
Georgetown</p>

<p>If you have the scores, Berkeley should be a "safety" simply because it's 100% numbers oriented now. In your case though, I don't think the 32 is going to cut it.</p>

28

<p>blah. I didn't read everyone else's advice but I'm sure there's some good stuff.</p>

<p>I would just hazard to say...That's like a list of the top 20 schools in the country...First, you're going to obviously need less reaches and more safeties. (I'm sure this has already been said).</p>

<p>However, I would like to add that it might seem logical now for you not to think you're going to care about where you're going to live for your four years in college, but I believe this is a naive view. You're going to care.</p>

<p>It's not really possible to just write down the top 20 universities in America and expect that you're going to like every one of them. First, you need to use some of these people's advice to narrow down the reach schools with the best business programs. (def. Wharton). Then, you need to investigate and even visit these schools in person to get a feel for them. You're going to care about more than academics once you get to college. Plus, all these schools are going to give you superb academics, you need to find something you LIKE and can feel comfortable with for four years. I think you'll start to understand more as you begin to visit these different places.</p>

<p>Final note...you're putting WAY to much stock in USNWR.</p>

29

<p>You don't apply to all of them because that is costly and takes a long time (unless you have the money to spare and feel like spending a whole lot of time filling out the applications). Not only are each of the applications expensive (mine were $45-$60 each), but you will spend $5 to send your SAT scores to each school over 5 (or is it 10?). Anyway, it adds up real quickly. Unless you have over $1,000 to spend on applying, I would suggest narrowing the list. </p>

<p>Also, pick some safety schools. I don't care if you have a 2400 SAT, great EC's, and a 4.5 GPA, you aren't guaranteed admission to all of these schools. </p>

<p>I'm sorry if I sound harsh. Just narrow down your list a lot, and add in some safety schools. It will be a lot easier on you. Some of these schools are very different. Figure out what you REALLY want out of your college experience, and the options will go down drastically. Good luck.</p>

30

<p>Cmc4me- you are going about this college selection process completely incorrectly. Unfortunately, only good grades and test scores are not going to earn you admission into the Ivy Leagues. In comparison to Ivy undergrads, your EC's are seriously lacking. </p>

<p>I was in the same position as you last year- I wanted to apply to the Ivy Leagues and major in business. Then I discovered liberal arts colleges, and it completely changed my view of colleges. </p>

<p>Do not use prestige in your selection process; Harvard may be the best-known college in the world, but if you get there and hate it, getting a good education will be nearly impossible. Nearly every reason you gave for attending these colleges was "great reputation". You are applying to colleges that differ completely in their campus feel, demographics, locations, etc. This leads me to believe that you have not researched these schools as thoroughly as you should.</p>

<p>The Ivy Leagues are great graduate schools, but their undergraduate programs suffer from integrating teaching assistants into instruction. That's right.....those world-class professors are busy doing research with graduate students and send their assistants to teach you. Dartmouth and Princeton avoid this the best out of all of the Ivy's, and Brown and Cornell are decent. So if you are looking for quality time with professors, immediately remove Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, and MIT. These schools are world renown for their graduate programs, NOT their undergraduate curriculum.</p>

<p>You say you would like to major in business, but you are a young adult. Your mind will change about 50 times....trust me. So you should keep your options open. What would happen if you get halfway through business school and realize that it's not for you? That's 2 years and $100,000 down the drain. It may seem like your mind is made up now, but if you are the intelligent student I think you are, I know it can change....If you major in business, your degree helps only in business related fields, so it's not too flexible. With that, we can eliminate Wharton from the list. Once again, it is a great graduate school, but probably not your best bet as far an undergraduate education goes. </p>

<p>Just because you have legacy status doesn't mean you have to apply; if the college doesn't fit you, then don't apply. You honestly can't be applying to Georgetown because of its business school....come on, its best "known" for international relations, if we are going to use your prestige methodology. So Georgetown is off the list. Moving on......</p>

<p>Coming from someone who had the exact same mindset as you a year ago, I think you would fit in well at a liberal arts college. You are obviously ambitious, intelligent, and very well-rounded, and your scores so far are impressive. So Cornell and UC Berkeley get axed here. That leaves us with Dartmouth and Claremont McKenna.</p>

<p>You said you visited Claremont and liked the atmosphere; liberal arts curriculums offer unparalleled access to many different academic paths. If you really do want to study business, then get an economics degree at a top liberal arts college and apply to UPenn or another top business school to get an MBA. Undergraduate-liberal arts; grad school- Ivy League. By doing this, you keep your options open (maybe your interests will change to sociology or environmental science...who knows?). The Ivy Leagues love liberal arts grads. Top corporations consistently hire them, and they are renowned among top academics. The alumni coming out of these top schools astonished me. I thought only the Ivy's produced these types of people...Presidents, CEO's, diplomats, philosophers, television producers, generals, the list goes forever..... So, to try and set you on the right path, I just want to suggest a few schools that I think you would do wonderful at, and have an excellent chance of being admitted. </p>

<p>Bowdoin College (That's -bow(like bow and arrow)- den (where wolves live)). It's in Brunswick, Maine, near Boston, Portland, and tons of opportunities. The CEO of American Express went there and they have excellent ties with Goldman & Sachs. Not to mention a U.S. President, a Supreme Court Justice, Longfellow, and tons of others. That's my favorite, but look also at Colby College, Hamilton College, and Middlebury College. That's just a start.</p>

<p>I really think you have great potential, and I would hate to have you waste it sitting in an Ivy League classroom with 80 other students listening to a teaching assistant. Instead, look into a small liberal arts institution where only professors (many of them just as well known as their Ivy League counterparts) teach you and you can have a great experience. And, if you must apply to at least one Ivy League, go with Dartmouth. It's a great school that focuses on the liberal arts. </p>

<p>So I hope I helped you (and didn't come off as too rude.....sorry) look into a new field of colleges, where I think you would excel. Save the Ivy's and big name universities for grad school.</p>

31

<p>Thanks for all the advice. It has been helpful</p>

<p>On applying to a lot of schools:
I am willing to spend the $1,000+ on applications and the time writing the essays. What is the problem with applying to a large number of schools? Couldn't I just apply to all of them then decide later? It is impossible to fully explore all of the schools and visit them all... so why not apply to all of them and then explore them more when I see where I get in?</p>

<p>ECs:
I didn't list all of them... nor all of my accomplishments in each activity... awards... internships... etc... I think my extracurriculars are solid.</p>

<p>Safety schools:
This is one issue I am having trouble on. I could put UCSB or UC Davis as a safety. But I would like a better match for a safety school. But I can't think of one... Suggestions on particular safety schools?</p>

<p>SVE673:
I will look more into LACs... But you eliminated way tooo many schools. Many top schools are able to provide a great amount of resources to both undergrads and grad students. They also provide a vast array of opportunities to explore a breadth of topics and go in depth in each one, unlike smaller LACs.</p>

<p>Fit:
Population density: People keep bringing up urban v. suburban v. rural... I know I could be happy at any of the three. Furthermore, I don't want to eliminate 2/3 of all colleges using one parameter. When a campus is in a rural or suburban area it develops more stuff to do on campus and in an urban area you have a city to explore. Both are great options. Also, I don't mind different types of weather. I'll get use to it.</p>

<p>School size: Small, medium and large schools all have there benefits and draw backs. Small scores are more tight knit. Larger schools have more variety. Medium schools are in between. Once again, I believe I could thrive in any of them.</p>

<p>Fit stuff that I do care about:
1. I want to spend a semester abroad. Most schools offer this.
2. I want to get good internships during the summer and a goos job when I graduate. Generally, top schools have better career opportunities. But I will be proactive and find my own opportunities too.
3. I want a happy environment. One that isn't too cut throat.
4. Professor interaction. I want my teachers to be accessible and preferably small classes.
5. Near a startup hub. Makes Boston and Silicon Valley preferred locations. Not mandatory though.
6. Offers entrepreneurship related classes.</p>

<p>The list:
I am planning on applying to Stanford SCEA</p>

<p>definite places I will apply: Wharton, CMC, Georgetown, Berkeley, Brown
I have visited all of them (some during summer though) and liked them all</p>

<p>The rest I will research more. I will probably still apply to what many consider too many schools. But I will be discerning in the process.</p>

<p>probably places I will apply: HYPM (why not?), Brown, Columbia</p>

32

<p>I'm glad you are going to look at some LAC's so you know what's out there besides big universities (even though I'm sure you're aware of many of them). </p>

<p>I didn't realize that you had alot more EC's, so you would probably be competitive at HYPM. You'll be fine wherever you choose, but make sure it's somewhere you like because of the college, not the name. </p>

<p>Another word of advice: Although I'm sure you know, you definitely need to start your applications around August; with so many schools to apply to, starting early is important. (Don't be like me and submit all of the apps just before midnight on Jan 1st.....terrible idea...) They might take longer than you think. </p>

<p>Oh, and when I was talking about Bowdoin alumni, I meant to say Supreme Court Chief Justice, not just Justice (they had alot of those too....) </p>

<p>With some interesting essays and great recommendations, I think you have a chance at any of the schools you listed. Good luck applying next year!</p>

33

<p>The OP wrote:
"On applying to a lot of schools:
I am willing to spend the $1,000+ on applications and the time writing the essays. What is the problem with applying to a large number of schools? Couldn't I just apply to all of them then decide later? It is impossible to fully explore all of the schools and visit them all... so why not apply to all of them and then explore them more when I see where I get in?"</p>

<p>If you think it's hard making the decision on where to apply, you have no idea of how hard it is to make the decision of where to accept. April is a short month; you don't have time to go on more than a couple of college visits. So, instead of using your nice, long summer before senior year to whittle down your list, you are shifting the decision to a time-pressured 30 day period, which is not a good approach.</p>

<p>You keep saying that your ACT score is going to improve, but there is no guarantee of that. A single point on the ACT is equivalent to 60-80 points on the new SAT, so you can understand that it is fairly common to not improve the score on retaking. As it stands, you are overreaching with your current scores. </p>

<p>You are continually focused on prestige and high rank. Why? There are many things that a college education can bring you; the shiny name on the diploma is only a small part of those things. You keep denying that there are places where you would "fit in" better than others, but your thinking process shows that you are simply not very self-aware. </p>

<p>The college application march does help you get to know yourself better, and that's another reason why making good judgments early on helps you. Don't get overly focused on your dream schools; keep looking for schools that are a better fit for your current scores. Prestige is not everything; there are plenty of schools where you will find serious and dedicated students. One thing to consider: do you want to go to a school where you will be among the best students, or would you be happy in the middle of the pack?</p>

34

<p>I would rather have a very hard choice in April between multiple schools that I all liked then be stuck with a safety school. If I visit a school and hate it or find another good reason not to apply, I won't apply there. I visited caltech and that is what happened. </p>

<p>If my ACT score doesn't improve I can still apply with a 32. I believe it will improve because English is my lowest score and it is also the easiest one to improve in.</p>

<p>The reason I care about prestige and rankings is not for the name on my diploma, rather the additional opportunities that are associated with a highly ranked institution.</p>

<p>Claremont Mckenna College is a school on my list because it is uniquely fit for me. Unfortunately, I haven't found many schools that fit what I am looking for. Furthermore, the ones that I have found are top ranked schools.</p>

35

<p>Midwesterner, I definitely agree with cmc4me on this one. There is no problem applying to that many schools, as long as you can find the time to do it. </p>

<p>Although your final decision must be submitted around 30 days after you are accepted, you have the entire school year to focus in on your favorite colleges. If you just make the choices over the summer, you have 3 months to decide your colleges; if you leave one off the list, and then realize you like it best later (after discovering more about it), then you're out of luck. </p>

<p>If you apply to 10 schools, for example, you have the whole school year to narrow that decision down, as I'm sure your mind will change about which school is the best fit for you. </p>

<p>Since cmc4me is willing to pay the application fees, there is no problem with applying to this many schools. It allows for more time in deciding, and its no problem if there is a school they end up not liking. Just a little time and money wasted on a huge decision in your life.</p>

<p>Side note: English is an easy score to raise, and a 32 is still a great score for some of the schools cmc listed.</p>

36

<p>. bump</p>

37

<p>so...what's your list as of now?</p>

<p>by the way, go for brown ;)</p>

38

<p>definitely visit the schools you are considering, if possible
if not, i would definitely look at your inclusion of all eight ivies,which are vastly different in terms of environment and other factors aside from the fact that they are all in the ivy league, which gives them an edge prestige-wise (although many of the other schools on your original list are quite prestigious). whatever happens, good luck with the applications (another reason to limit your list of schools)...they are quite fun</p>

39

<p>I feel like an update. It ends up that the profile name I chose is quite revealing. I will be heading to Claremont McKenna College in the fall. I ended up cutting down the schools I applied to a lot. I applied to 7 privates and 3 UCs. I probably could have gotten into the likes of Northwestern or Georgetown but I decided to cut those schools. Overall, I think that is for the best because CMC is a great fit for me. Now, I just still have to wait for a waitlist.</p>

40

<p>

</p>

<p>Check out its CS department, too. Unless it has changed a lot in recent years, I don’t see what value you are adding compared to the UCs. More expensive, lower quality in your areas of interest. Yet the selectivity is pushed up by areas outside those interests. So you’d be wasting an application that you’d be better off allocating to a match or safety. </p>

<p>If (and only if) you are drawn to the DC metro area and want better Economics and CS programs, in a somewhat less selective and expensive school (but still not a safety for OOS), consider the University of Maryland, College Park. The DC area is not much of a startup hub but it is an important IT hub due to government business.</p>

<p>Your approach seems much better to me, at this stage in your process, than some posters are giving you credit for. You just need to broaden your scope a little to add some match/safety schools.</p>