My friend (and yes this really is my friend and not me) has amazing scores.
2340 on sats, 800M, 800CR 740 W (and he’s retaking because he thinks he can do better)
all 800s on math IIC, chem and US
first in the class of 168, with like a 5.2 GPA out of 6
all 5s on his APs, which are Physics C (both) Economics (both), Calc AB and BC, Chem, US, Euro and Stats.
228 on PSATs
His senior year schedule is all APs (7)
Basically he has no extracurriculars. He runs track and cross country but only started that junior year and won’t be captain or anything. He couldn’t even get into NHS because of lack of leadership and com service. I would imagine his essays will be good, but maybe they wont be unique. His recommendations should be pretty solid. He doesn’t have too many awards, basically just school ones because he never did anything like contests.
He’s applying to a bunch of top schools. Princeton, Yale, Stanford, UChic, Berkeley, Villanova, and maybe UPenn, columbia, or Cornell.
He is pretty confident that he will get into most if not all of these. Do you think that just his academics are going to be enough? Even more important, should he get into these schools having not done much throughout HS?
<p>Has he thought about Caltech at all? They don't really care for extracurriculars as long as you've got good SAT scores and a hard courseload with the sciences.</p>
<p>He's got great chances at Berkeley (esp if he is a CA resident), a very number-driven school with a great math program. I don't know about the others. Yale and Princeton (I hear through the grapevine) are pretty big on ECs. The Ivies, you know, get so many "perfect" students who lettered in track, captain of the soccer team, volunteered to read to old people at nursing homes, played piano with Yanni, all while maintaining a strong rank at a prep school and scoring 1560s. So they can afford to be quite choosy with people who aren't that well-rounded. That's just a hypothetical explanation, someone else can give you better guidance on the Ivies.</p>
<p>I pretty much second what EuropeGirl stated. I think your friend will do ok if he is careful with essays and such - but I doubt he will do as well as he thinks he will. Print out the post that is ref'ed on the 'Its not all stats' thread I started on the 'Chances' forum. That should be a wake-up call.</p>
<p>Whoops, missed that. I agree that schools like Cal tech, MIT, Mudd, etc. look less at ECs, but they do like to see secience/math honors. I'll bet he gets into one of those, Chicago, Cornell or Penn or Cal. No way at P, Y, C or S. Villanova should be quite safe.</p>
<p>I agree with the others. Most ivies would probably reject a person with no ECs. You need at least something that shows your passion for one thing.</p>
<p>"He is pretty confident that he will get into most if not all of these. Do you think that just his academics are going to be enough? Even more important, should he get into these schools having not done much throughout HS?"</p>
<p>Hmm, kids post chance threads here everyday with better stats and incredible ECs. We respond by telling them that their chances aren't so great and to find safeties. This kid has done nothing except track (remember last week when you guys all called me an a$$ hole for saying that track was the easiest sport to join if you just wanted to pad your resume?), yet he thinks he has a great chance at the Ivies. Pure academic kids do get into HYP, but they're not simply great SAT scorers, they have hooks like winning major math or science competions. </p>
<p>Ignorance is bliss I guess, well at least until April rolls around.</p>
<p>I know a kid who got 1600 on his SATs in one sitting, 35 ACT, top of his class, only had one B all through high school, took the toughest classes, had 12 credits in math and computer science from a major Big 10 uni which he took during his senior year and had a GPA from there of 4.0, 5s on 9 AP exams, lots of ECs and got rejected outright from MIT. They didn't even waitlist him. He is going to Carleton and very happy there.</p>
<p>We're from Mass so i dont think he is thinking about caltech and not MIT either. That's his list of schools right there + UMass. Unless he has some things in the bag I don't know about I am pretty sure thats about it. I bet his recs will say that he is a genius and such. His essay might not be as good as it could because he probably hasn't done any reading on making essays unique and such. Definitely no major awards since our school doesn't have a lot of opportunities such as science fairs and such, and he would never bother to look.</p>
<p>Shennie, that really helps put things in perspective.</p>
<p>One guy who graduated in May, wanted to go into aerospace engineering. NMF, 1500+ SAT, 34 ACT, won a couple of regional, state, and national science awards (nothing like Seimens-Westinghouse, though). Very little ECs besides one sport and a math club (one year). He had a friend who knew Ross Perot, who apparently has an adcom relative at MIT. Ross Perot pulled for this guy but in the end he was waitlisted and rejected (but I don't think MIT accepted <em>anyone</em> off the waitlist). He's going to TX A&M on a full scholarship.</p>
<p>Dont get me wrong he's a nice kid but he is a bit of a recluse. He doesn't go out at all. Basically hasn't made any friendships in high school and I should probabyl describe him more of a co-worker than a friend.</p>
<p>I totally agree that he should apply to caltech. Although I am being stereotypical, most everyone who applies to caltech and gets in is an introvert, really into math and science, and doesn't do much in the way of ec's, so your friend seems like he might really fit in. (sorry if i offend anyone who is going to caltech)</p>
<p>First of all, I'd just like to say it's always very suspect to have friends report on another one's scores/achievements/etcs... but here we go.</p>
<p>Your friend will be in for a rude awakening once admissions decisions come in. I'm sure you'll direct him to links given in this thread, and there's a whole lot of difference between a "kid with good scores" and a "kid with good scores and is actively involved in the community." Students with good scores and barely any extracurricular acitivies are wild-cards and subject to a lot of questioning and wondering on the part of admissions offices- so, does this kid just study all day, in which case if 1/3 of the population of the top students do this, then they'd all have similar stats. But, if this kid rarely studies and just plays video games all day, then is that at all any better than studying all day? He may stand out with his numbers at your school, but when you consider the applicant pool at some of the colleges he's intending to apply, he'll be lost in a crowd of wonderful applicants.</p>
<p>I say he has zero shot at MIT, though many insist his chances are better here. I skimmed last year's application of MIT, and the section for you to list your awards/honors also ask you to indicate how big that honor was in terms of "school, regional, state, international" and I'm certain there have been applicants who have checked the "international" box several times over. For Stanford and Princeton's applications, they each have 13 lines to fill in 13 different extracurricular activities- yeah, your friend is going to look very weak. Columbia and Chicago both highly value extracurricular activities, and if you applied then they'd love to see him so that they can add him to the pile of 1500+ rejects. Cornell and UPenn? I could see how they'd want to raise their average SAT scores, and these are your friend's best shots in terms of Ivy League colleges, though I wouldn't rate his chances so highly at these schools. </p>
<p>Holy crud! I just checked and your friend is OOS for Berkeley, in which case I say his chances are slim to none. Luckily for Californians, "comprehensive review" has been put into place so that students are no longer automatically admitted without looking further into applicants than just test scores. While your friend may have stood a solid chance before on a numbers basis, he'll scare the hell out of Berkeley's admissions officials. I've seen a whole crop of solid, involved applicants on these boards who are thinking about applying to Berkeley from Out-of-State and let me tell ya, they will laugh at your friend's application. Berkeley does not accept recommendations, nor does any other UC school. He is left on his own to fight to explain why he hasn't been more active on his essays. Can he get through? Well, he'd have to come up with the biggest and most eloquent defense in his life... but then again, he's got to be a math major and not pre-law... the odds are stacked against him.</p>
<p>to respond to why people think MIT doesn't care that much about EC's...</p>
<p>I know quite a few friends and relatives that can be said to have little to no EC's and got in easily in to MIT. If you don't believe me, just take a walk on MIT's campus. Most nerdy by far. Heck, I'd call myself a "nerd". </p>
<p>Also, I would think your friend has a better chance than most are saying on this post at Princeton and Yale, but maybe not so much at Harvard and Stanford. Has he won any major competitions at least, or done outside research? I have a hard time believing such a smart kid does nothing even academic outside of school...</p>
<p>Anyways the only reasons I put his stats on here are because we're going to be applying to many similar schools (Berkeley, UChic, Princeton, Yale, and Stanford), and you can see my stats in the What are my chances under "Chances at Top Schools". I just know everyone from where I live is pretty sure he will get in everywhere and I think i've read enough on this board to know thats not how it is. And btw I'm not going to show him any of the threads that have been written, im not trying to shove anything in anyone's face, I was just interested, and he doesn't have a name on this board anyways.</p>
<p>Also no work experience, no real community service worth mentioning. Some peer tutoring and all of this started junior year when he didn't get into NHS which came as a big shocker.</p>