Need Advice about LAC admissions - another Average Excellent kid

Paying for College
1

Hi, I’ve lurked for a few months on CC without writing anything and have learned a lot of valuable info. so far. It seems like so many pros are on this website! I’ll try to keep this as brief as possible. My D is a rising senior and would like to major in English/Creative Writing (may also go toward political science/law or in the direction of journalism/publishing). She attends a very large suburban public school in the southeast and is heavily involved in theatre (very strong drama program) as her main EC.

When she graduates she will have taken 12 AP or IB (does IB lang. arts and IB French) and has received 5s on AP exams in: gov, US. History, Lang
3.9 GPA (can’t figure out the weighted/unweighted thing because 4 is the highest they can receive but they also get extra points for AP classes)
1400 on new SAT
33 ACT (took once without studying, thinking about taking again but not sure it will make a difference)

ECs: Theatre takes up so much time during the school year that she does not have much time for anything else since her academic schedule is so tough. However, she did have big roles in two different shows this past year and will likely have some leads this coming year. She also has had leadership positions in drama and will be VP this year.

Other activities include the typical NHS and other awards, swim team all summers as well as volunteer swim coaching for two years, summer life guarding job for two years, some writing awards at her school, an honorable mention for the Scholastic Writing awards, and a first place in state at the Future Problem Solving conference as a freshman.

Ok finances are a big concern, but I really think she would love and thrive at a small liberal arts college. We have visited a number of them and I think they are just the place for her. Unfortunately, her dad teaches at a small LAC (not nearly as well-regarded as the ones we’ve looked at) and he has told us that she can get free tuition at his school but otherwise he is paying nothing. So, that is one option but she’d have to pay for her own room and board (or commute) or she could go to our state flagship (all tuition covered and possibly more through the honors program). She really doesn’t want to go to a large school.

I need to do some more work on net price calculators, but I know schools are going to take my ex’s income and finances into account. I don’t know if it’s better to try for merit aid at schools where she is a better candidate or add more reach schools in hopes that they offer good aid packages if she happens to be accepted. I want to be realistic. As much as I would love for her to have a good quality education at a great LAC, I know it’s not smart for her to come out with a lot of debt (I can help some but not significantly).

Schools we have visited that my daughter loves: Wellesley, Furman, Davidson, Lafayette, Richmond. We also liked Gettysburg. There are many more on the list that I am trying to narrow down, including some additional safety schools.
I’m assuming that a school is still a reach even if her ACT score is at the 75th%ile? I’m having trouble figuring that part out.

Any guidance or advice would be appreciated.

2

Have you checked out schools that his school has tuition exchange with?

3

Yes, there are quite a few that we’re interested in, including: Furman, Lafayette, Gettysburg, Tulane, Richmond, possibly Trinity, Smith, Sewanee and others. However, we need a lot of help from my D’s father to complete paperwork and he’s not being very encouraging or helpful (his school is small and doesn’t have a specific TE liaison). Also, the awards are still quite competitive and would still leave a substantial amount uncovered most likely. However, I’m still prepared to push to try to get his cooperation.

4

Being at the 75%ile is ok for safety schools IF they also have 50%+ acceptance rates. I can’t think of any schools with a 32-33 at the 75th %ile with high acceptance rates, so she’ll probably be a few points into the top quartile at her safety(s).

5

Wow, you are juggling lots of balls and doing an admirable job! I’d say the ACT 33 is great and not worth the time and money to re-take. Unfortunately your ex is in a pivotal position here and it doesn’t sound like moving forward without his cooperation is practical.

6

I would pursue tuition exchange. Many schools are 75% off or free tuition. I don’t understand why dad can’t help with the paperwork, but its not that complicated anyway.

If she was strictly your dependent, would you qualify for some aid? Try doing NPC with your info only to see where u stand.

7

There are some FAFSA-only LAC’s which would not factor in your ex’s income. Earlham and Denison are two I happen to know about. So you could run the NPC with just your info to get an idea for any FAFSA-only schools.

My outlook on safeties is that the admit rate has to be better than 50% AND it should be a financial safety as well, i.e., you know you can swing it financially without counting on a scholarship, or it has an automatic scholarship that your D definitely qualifies for.

Richmond has some good merit scholarships but not sure how just what they cover. I believe they are highly competitive, so although your D may meet the basic requirements, it’s still a wild card.

8

Take a look at Hendrix College in Arkansas. It has, I believe, an acceptance rate of 70% but also something like 32 at the 75th percentile. With a 33, your child will be competitive for the full tuition scholarship.It is a College That Change Lives LAC.

9

Muhlenberg in PA has good theater and gives merit. The are also a TE (Tuition Exchange) school. You probably have this already, but for the benefit of others, here’s a link to all of the TE schools:

http://www.tuitionexchange.org/vnews/display.v/SEC/Families%7CMember%20Schools

10

Earlham, Denison, Dickinson, Gettysburg all offer good merit aid. Not sure how this interacts with arrangements you have but it could help. I would also guess that your geography would help her chances at a number of schools (i.e., those in Maine and upstate NY ) and they offer to cover full demonstrated need but again, not sure how this works in your situation.

11

Thank you all for the great suggestions/feedback. I do have to factor in ex’s income etc. because she still lives with him part of the time and we share expenses. However, I wasn’t aware of the LACs that were FAFSA-only. I’ve started looking into Denison and I’ll check out Hendrix. Muhlenberg seems great for the theater activities - we stopped by the campus for a while last week on our visit to other schools but didn’t have time to do a tour. One problem with that school is that almost all of the tuition exchange scholarships are given to ED admits.

I will definitely be having my D make a plea to her dad about cooperating with the tuition exchange applications. I’ve found that some schools (Furman and maybe Richmond) will stack other scholarships/aid with the TE award while others (Gettysburg) will not. If there are any other school suggestions I’ll take them. I’ve considered the upstate New York LACs because there are so many great ones. It’s just that they seem so far and difficult to get to. Boston doesn’t seem as far because the flight is easy and I have a lot of family close by. I’d still probably rather have her within driving distance and I think she would like being closer to a city for the cultural events. However, I’m also considering Kenyon and Oberlin and will take and advice regarding those.

Thank for the feedback about safety schools. I’m feeling confused about which of the schools we like so far would be considered reaches or matches?

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First of all I am no expert but from what I hear Kenyon is very difficult to get accepted. I have been on the campus it is small and cozy. It almost feels like camp. I loved it.

My daughter had a friend that got a very generous offer at Oberlin. She had need and it was met. I think she only had to pay around 2K a year to attend. I believe that included room and board. And I think her stats were similar to your daughters. Actually I think your daughters stats could be a bit better.

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I think you should help your daughter become very familiar with the tuition exchange program and then SHE should approach her father with her plans. “Hey dad, did you know that I can get $34k to go to X, Y, or Z as they are on the tuition exchange with your school? Can you help me get in contact with the TE person at your school and get the process started? I really want to go to X, Y or Z, and from the research I’ve done, the sooner I get my application in the more likely I’ll get the TE.”

She should also include him in the planning for any school she picks. I think the NCP are often left out, so it is no wonder that they are not thrilled to pay. Her father may also know that his school doesn’t accept many in the TE so few of their ‘sends’ receive TE. It’s a big benefit for a professor to get free tuition for their dependents, so he may want that to be his contribution to her education and may feel a little insulted that his school isn’t good enough for his daughter. She may be able to convince him that Gettysburg is best for her and he may be more willing to do some of the work needed for TE.

14

What can you afford for college if she has no help from dad? Many schools that give high institutional aid do required the NCP Profile (regardless of whether or not the NCP will pay), and schools that are FAFSA only often do not meet need according to FAFSA, so there could be a gap to cover even beyond the FAFSA EFC.

There are schools that would give guaranteed merit for her Stats, but many are large (although she may find that the honors college at a larger school would give her a smaller school experience within a larger university). is she at all interested in double majoring with Theatre as one of her majors? She may find some talent money that is specifically for Theatre majors at some schools.

Highly competitive, but did you and your daughter know about this new opportunity at Wesleyan? https://www.boston.com/culture/arts/2016/06/15/wesleyan-is-now-offering-a-full-ride-hamilton-scholarship

15

You are getting some great advice. Tuition exchange definitely worth pursuing – it may or may not pan out, or your D may decide on a merit school instead, but whenever finances are a concern the more options the better. Unfortunately this may mean lots of apps and research and visits and interviews but in the end the investment is worth it because a good fit which is affordable could save you/her tens of thousands of dollars…and even make her happy, too :slight_smile:

You have gotten some good suggestions for LACs . The only ones not mentioned already which came to m y mind are Skidmore and Hamilton.

16

For creative writing and pre-law, Hamilton.

For some of the country’s strongest English offerings, Kenyon.

As “match” implies a chance of denial, these colleges would be be matches for your highly qualified daughter.

These schools’ NPCs will inform you as to whether they may be realistic options.

Hoping your financial complications resolve themselves.

17

I was in a similar situation with my D last year and her stats are similar to your D’s (no potential tuition benefit though). I was not sure if her NCP would cooperate (and his income is much higher than mine). So we made sure there were some schools on the list that didn’t require his participation (Temple full tuition, Wooster, Albright in PA meets need without the Profile). In the end, he did his FA paperwork, she was admitted to Amherst and they didn’t expect much from him so we were able to afford it (it was her best FA package). Her second best package was from Tulane, which tells me they also didn’t take his income into account much.

Beyond those two excellent offers, Albright was pretty good, Wooster, Emory and Northeastern all came in just a little worse, Oberlin worst of the LACs. She had several affordable choices.

In addition to Denison, consider the College of Wooster. The FA folks there will do a full financial aid pre-read for you. They don’t require Profile NCP but do have their own form, it’s brief.

PM me if you want any specifics.

18

Wow! Thank you so much for this wonderful feedback. It is very much appreciated.

@twoinanddone I totally agree. I think my daughter has a much better chance of convincing her dad to get on board and she is planning on talking with him very soon. It makes sense for her to have done the homework and present her choices as you suggested. Dad is fairly involved in her life but doesn’t talk much to her about college as he has made his position clear. Unfortunately, there is not much info about TE at his school. The human resources person is young and new and not knowledgeable about it (according to ex) so it would really need to be her dad to get involved in the paperwork. Fingers crossed that she can convince him.

@KatMT - I think his income/assets will most likely need to be counted at most of the schools in which she is interested but I need to do more work this week on the NPCs. D will definitely apply to the honors program at our state flagship. I think she could do fine there, but after seeing what the LACs have to offer, I hope she has other choices. Thank you so much for the link to the Hamilton scholarship. D will love that, as I believe she has memorized every word to that musical! She doesn’t really want to major/minor in theater but what she loved about the LACs is that she can be involved in theater productions even without being a major. We also liked that Furman said she can still audition for some theater scholarship money as a non-major.

Again, thank you all for taking the time to give feedback. I’m taking notes!

19

@OHMomof2 - Thanks for sharing some great specifics and congrats to your daughter. I will definitely be in touch!

20

I think she should be very selective about schools with a theater program that is small but says it allows non majors to try out for plays. Ask how many ever get selected for roles. Many say anyone can participate but in reality only majors get picked for parts.

Small schools aren’t always better. My daughter wanted small but financially that didn’t work. She’s so happy she’s at a school with lots of choices of majors and courses. My other daughter wanted bigger but is fine at a school with about 3500. However, she’s in engineering, the school’s an engineering school, so she has a lot of choices for her labs and sections. Others who aren’t in science and math courses have limited choices.