<p>Me again. Sorry, just realized that I can search postings for HEOP and educate myself thru what has already been written on CC. Not sure that we are really HEOP candidates, I suspect that the more experienced posters would already have suggested it. So, sorry – will do my homework!</p>
<p>SUNY schools are great for the undecided because you aren’t going into debt to find out what you are interested in. Older son who is at Plattsburgh went as a business/ computer major decided to change majors and is now a Physics major/Math minor and he will be graduating a semester early and will be going to grad school for his doctorate in Physics. (He developed his interest in Physics while at Plattsburgh when he attended an evening lecture.) He has done undergraduate research with one of the professors and does tutoring for Math and Science. Son does know students who are taking longer to graduate but that is more a function of their lack of motivation than a comment on the school. I have sons at 2 SUNY schools and both schools are straight forward about graduation requirements. Both have online tracking of which courses you’ve taken and which ones you will still need to graduate. As Joan posted, the professors are motivated to help undergrads and are willing to meet with undergrads to guide them along their way. </p>
<p>Also, your d can take courses over the summer at her local community college to fulfill gen ed requirements as someone else posted. Some private schools are particular about which classes they will take. Son has a friend, premed, at Siena and he had to retake a calculus course over the summer at Siena (at a much higher cost per credit hour than available through the local community college). Also, often you won’t receive financial aid for extra summer courses so the cheaper option is better. </p>
<p>If you visit Plattsburgh, look at LaQuinta they are a little cheaper than the Best Western which is also a good choice and LaQuinta, too, has an inside pool. From La Quinta you can walk to dinner at the Butcher Block, a nice local restaurant.</p>
<p>the 4 different opportunity programs in NYC/NYS are </p>
<p>College Discovery (CD)- CUNY community Colleges (NYC)
SEEK- CUNY 4 year schools (NYC)
EOP- SUNY schools (both CC & 4 year Schools)
HEOP- 4 year private schools in NYS
I do not know if cities outside of NYC have their own opportunity programs. A student can only be admitted into an opportunity program freshman year. However, once admitted they can stay in through graduate school (NYS SUNY school). </p>
<p>This is a good link to start</p>
<p>[What</a> is HEOP](<a href=“http://www.manhattan.edu/services/acadsupt/higher_ed_program.html]What”>http://www.manhattan.edu/services/acadsupt/higher_ed_program.html)</p>
<p>This is a full overview of HEOP including the list of HEOP Schools</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.highered.nysed.gov/kiap/colldev/HEOP/documents/HEOPWebBrochure2011-12.pdf[/url]”>http://www.highered.nysed.gov/kiap/colldev/HEOP/documents/HEOPWebBrochure2011-12.pdf</a></p>
<p>EOP is not a URM thing, however, there are probably more economically and academically disadvantaged students in this population. The rub is that each school defines educationally disadvantage differently. </p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>I just went to the HEOP scholars breakfast at Barnard on last week.</p>
<p>their HEOP guidelines are :</p>
<p>■Be a legal resident of New York State
■Be 21 years of age or younger
■Be a high school graduate by June 30, 2012
■Have a high school grade point average (GPA) of at least 85
■Have a maximum SAT Critical Reading score of 620 OR ACT English sub score of 24
■Have a taxable family income that meets the low-income guidelines established by the New York State Board of Regents. To qualify for the HEOP Scholars program, families must apply for financial aid and meet the following earning guidelines:</p>
<p>[Arthur</a> O. Eve HEOP Scholars Program (NYS Residents Only) | Barnard College](<a href=“http://barnard.edu/admissions/apply/higher-ed-opportunity-programs/heop]Arthur”>http://barnard.edu/admissions/apply/higher-ed-opportunity-programs/heop)</p>
<p>However, most of the students that I know that have been accepted to HEOP, had GPAs in the upper 90’s and SAT CR scores kissing the 620 (Notice that there is no maximum math requirement). Many have graduated with minimally with an Advanced Regents diplomas. Barnard and Columbia also take a good number of HEOP students from Harlem and NYC who have attended title I schools.(they try to remain connected to the community). What I have seen is that they will give a little wink on the SAT scores, but most have high gpas.</p>
<p>@OP, regarding your concern about low graduation rates, there is a website collegeresults .org, that lets you compare graduation rates for various colleges. The site will automatically comparable schools to the one you are looking at data for if you haven’t hand selected the colleges to compare. It helps to put it into perspective knowing how the school compares to similar schools.</p>
<p>The primary purpose of HEOP is to assist the academically disadvantaged - - first, by assisting them to gain admission, and secondarily, to assit them in paying. Thus, even if a student meets the financial elig requirements, one may inelig for HEOP if one’s scores AND grades are too high (if the scores/grades are high, you aren’t considered disadvantaged - - so Barnard and Columbia admitting students w/ high gpa and low SATs may not be so much overlooking weak test scores but viewing low scores as evid of disadvantage).</p>
<p>Sybbie et al, Funny, Barnard was the first college we visited last spring, before I realized how selective it has become – and before we knew much about how to college search. I am a believer in women’s colleges, since Smith changed my life as a need-based full scholarship student. Anyway D left it off her list because her GPA and scores don’t measure up to admissions. They do fit HEOP criteria (assuming real scores don’t pass practice ones.) Anyway our financial total for a family of 7 is under the cut-off for a family of 4, so even if we make a bit more $ next year we would still be within range.</p>
<p>D benefits from tutoring, esp in math and science, and she does seek help for these on her own. I gather that this is one of the major reasons to do HEOP. Again, she is strong in English, foreign language and History/Global, so I don’t know. But the math and science sure do bring down her average.</p>
<p>She would also benefit from bonding experiences with other kids who are not from super-privileged backgrounds. I say that because being white and documented and from a relatively sane family (!) in the US already is a privilege, but it has been hard for her being at a private school for wealthy kids after coming back from mission in an indigenous community in one of Mexico’s poorest states…</p>
<p>These same concerns could also be addressed by close guidance, a motivated peer group and the diversity of a SUNY.</p>
<p>She has not yet hit her stride academically here the way she did there. </p>
<p>Re. net incomes, FYI for other parents:</p>
<p>Skidmore - $4 K
Clark U $9.7 K
Muhlenberg 11.6 K
Manhattanville 12 K
Oneonta 12.6 K
New Paltz 13.8 K
Sarah L 14 K
Hartwick 16.5 K
Marist 17.8 K
Siena 18 K
Drew 19 K</p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
<p>Oops, not net incomes, net prices.</p>
<p>Also isn’t the rub that these don’t reflect possible preferential treatment – but neither can one count on the idea that scholarships given reduce the gap (posts have led me to beleive that many schools simply transfer scholarship money toward the net price reduction.)</p>
<p>D could possibly get scholarship $ for volunteerism, for example, but would it actually go toward that $11,600 at Muhlenberg, for example, or would it just get folded into the grant money which allows a reduction to this net price?</p>
<p>It would most likely be folded into the need based aid that the student is receiving from the school. It may not necessarily reduce the net price. Keep in mind that muhlenberg as well as most of the schools on your list do not meet 100% demonstrated need.</p>
<p>I also think (and some of the other parents will chime in) that there are ways to try to reduce some of the non-direct costs (books, travel, sundry items). Personally, I would back that amount out because you have more control over this part. You can shop around for books (half.com , etc. there are some book shopping threads in parent’s forum). you can price out your different travel options (as the years go on and your child meets people, they may be in a position to share a ride)</p>
<p>For example: COA at SUNY is ~21,120. I would back out the ~3600 for books, travel and personal expenses. This then leaves 17,420 if you back out full tap 4995, full pell 5550 (which you would get with your “0” EFC) and 5500 stafford loan (3500 sub + 2000) unsub. you will have 1425 left on the table.</p>
<p>*For example: COA at SUNY is ~21,120. I would back out the ~3600 for books, travel and personal expenses. This then leaves 17,420 if you back out full tap 4995, full pell 5550 (which you would get with your “0” EFC) and 5500 stafford loan (3500 sub + 2000) unsub. you will have 1425 left on the table. *</p>
<p>Sybbie is right. If your child can be thrifty and you can provide the sundries (shampoo, etc) bought in bulk or on sale, you can cut down much in the “personal expenses” category.</p>
<p>If your D wears a uniform to her private school now, then she will need clothes, so it may be a good idea to spend the next year buying some basics “off season” so that she doesn’t have to buy a full wardrobe right before college starts. Avoid trendy purchases…stick to basics…sweaters, T’s, jeans, shorts, etc.</p>
<p>COA Plattsburgh</p>
<p>In-state tuition and fees: $6,482<br>
Room and board: $9,750
books/supplies: 1,000</p>
<p>Basic costs about $17k…</p>
<p>But, if you submit FAFSA as soon as you can, you might get a bit more aid. Schools run out of Work-study and other aid, so submit early!</p>
<p>Also, since you would get Pell and Tap based on EFC/income, those govt grants wouldn’t get reduced at SUNYs that give merit scholarships. So, if your D were to get a merit scholarship from a SUNY, she may not have any gap at all. 
(Only institutional grants from various schools might get reduced after receiving merit).</p>
<p>But, if your D does end up with a gap, then she could cover that with earnings from a summer job and maybe a part-time job during the school year.</p>
<p>*
if you back out full tap 4995, full pell 5550 (which you would get with your “0” EFC) and 5500 stafford loan (3500 sub + 2000) unsub. you will have 1425 left on the table. *</p>
<p>As mentioned above, with careful planning, used books can be purchased thru some online sites and sometimes you can rent them from the school. I don’t know how much off-campus housing is, but sometimes a student can move off campus soph year with a couple of friends and save some money there.</p>
<p>Thanks once again Sybbie, I appreciate your helping set things straight.</p>
<p>The SUNYs I have looked at all seem feasible, and the calculators took me through the Pell and Tap. Hopefully will D would get work study for personal expenses. I noticed at NP that students can sometimes rent a textbook.</p>
<p>Sorry if you already explained I am just not getting this but would Pell reduction (and if in NY, TAP) be after or before net price? </p>
<p>Seems like the problem with the private schools is that unlike SUNYs – where one can be pleasantly surprised by merit or other scholarships but in the meantime can depend upon a realiably accurate baseline which is straightforward and easy to understand – private schools are like wildcards.</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids,</p>
<p>Your post appeared just as I posted my own response to Sybbie. Thank God for SUNY. Yes, the calculators at Platt and Oneonta were incredible – merit scholarships (IF D continues her upward trend) and aid were amazing, and even though these are only projections, it is quite possible that at those schools D could decide to take a lower loan than the 5.5 K. </p>
<p>All the great ideas about saving $ are ones that will come in handy. </p>
<p>Thanks so much mom2collegekids for the tips!</p>
<p>PS - Mom of bassist, loved hearing story about your son the Physics and Math major. I enjoy hearing about kids who find their passion.</p>
<p>All of the need based financial aid (TAP, Pell, etc.) awarded will reduce the COA. The net price calculators are not used for purposes of awarding aid, they are simply a way for students and families to help predict what their final cost might be. The net prices you’re seeing are after need-based aid, though projected merit aid may or may not be included.</p>
<p>Thanks sk8rmom, unfortunately at most places D won’t qualify for merit based aid but net prices do give an idea as to whether or not it’s even worth it to look at a school…</p>
<p>Thanks again, I appreciate hearing advice from senior CC members.</p>
<p>Momcino -</p>
<p>On the SUNY website, it provides the information about the counselors. My D and I went into Manhattan but I know they have them at other locations. It’s a free service. You need to have your transcript with you and your test scores and it’s best if you have some, even vague idea of what you’re interested in. My D knew she wanted to study music and special ed, that she wanted to be at a smaller sized school and that she did not want to be in a big city. With 64 campuses, anything that could narrow it down a bit might help but it’s their job to suss out your needs. The counselor suggested several schools, including Plattsburgh. Ironically, her HS counselor also suggested Platt.</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about HEOP or EOP so I can’t help there.</p>
<p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>Well, has anyone else had the same ah-ha experience these past couple of days? Apparently the gov’t required that as of Oct 29 ALL colleges have to make a net price calculator available. Well, it has been interesting. </p>
<p>Using approximates (and keeping in mind that this is only an estimate and that it is non-binding, in some cases based on past years, etc., etc.), it is an eye-opener in much the way that this wonderful blog is. Frankly I think it is a fantastic idea – because now we can rule out schools without having to see them and get attached to the idea of applying, only to find out that D can’t afford to enroll!</p>
<p>As posters have warned, colleges calculate differently. Some asked how much money is left to pay off our house, for example, and others didn’t. A couple asked for total of siblings bank accounts. </p>
<p>Here is what I have come up with.</p>
<p>Using out 2010 tax information…Marist, Drew, Fordham, College of St Rose, Hartwick and Sarah Lawrence all came out with over $10,000 worth of gap (after a student loan of $5,500). This is true even when I tried the same financial info a second time but exaggerated D’s scores in order to see if doing so would “earn” her more aid. No such luck, all over $10 K. </p>
<p>Skidmore came out to a gap of $2,621. Muhlenberg came out to $3,130 (or $2,980 if her grades and scores come up a bit). I had to check Smith, my alma mater, even though it is not in the running: The winner at $1,455. I think that’s less than I paid 20 years ago!</p>
<p>Question is, could D get in to any of those colleges. </p>
<p>Moving on, Siena was just under the $10 K mark at a missing $9,959. Manhattanville’s gap came out to 8,135. </p>
<p>At least now we know what we are looking at, not in numbers set in stone but concretely enough to know whether it is worth it or not to try.</p>
<p>So…I’m glad that D opined she would rather go to Oneonta’s Open House on Saturday rather than Manhattanville’s.</p>
<p>An interesting piece of trivia: Clark U in Worcester came out with a $40 K gap when I entered SAT scores of 1200 - 1299 – but $0 for scores of 1300 - 1399! (They only allow a 100 point range, nothing in between). With the same GPA!</p>
<p>Let me know what you thought of Oneonta. I drove through one but did not attend the info session or tour. I read some of the thread here and am going through a similar situations as you. I’m a single parent and need as much aid as I can get.
My daughter is a Junior she has a 93 average and is taking all honors and AP Chem.She has not taken the SAT yet. Took PSAT 2x and did well.
I have a son at Gettysburg in his second year. They do also try to meet your need. Its a wonderful school, I just figured I would add that. He had a 93 average with many AP’s honors and 1290 SAT.
As for my daughter I’d like her to possibly go to a SUNY where she could get her masters as well. She wants secondary education in Math. I’d love to go see New Paltz. I have seen Binghamton and Geneseo back with my son and he was admitted to Geneseo but waitlisted for Binghamton. I just dont know as of now how my daughter will do on the SAT so I dont think I could shoot so high.
I’d also like to note that Siena gave us good aid. He got some merit money so that did help. I would have paid to go to Siena as much as a SUNY.
For my daughter she will apply to
New Paltz…target possibly
Geneseo…if SAT’s are good
Binghamton…SAT?
and I think Cortland & Oneontas will be safe.</p>
<p>Trying to gather a list of privates.HELP!
Lehigh…is known for good aid
Siena…there is no app cost so why not
Marist…I was thinking but if a huge Gap I cant
Visited Iona…its very small.
Does anyone know much about Holy Cross?
I think its a good start. Looking for anyone with anymore ideas.
Like I said from my son I know Siena and Gettysburg gave good aid grants/merit. Fordham gave us a 28,000 dollar Gap back in 2010. Insane!</p>
<p>momcinco: </p>
<p>I visited Oneonta couple of years ago with my DD - we weren’t really impressed. The next day we visited Binghamton and there was a world of difference. She didn’t end up applying to Oneonta. </p>
<p>Regarding the cost calculator and your comparison - how enlightening!!! After we get DS’ SAT scores (he’s a junior and taking on 12/3), I’m going to do what you did. I don’t see University of Hartford on the list of schools you were investigating. DD liked that much better than Oneonta and they seem to be on the same level academically (from what I can tell). Hartford is private, but does give out merit aid.</p>
<p>Question for those of you using the net proce calculator for SUNY schools:</p>
<p>Is there any difference in pricing for those of you using the SUNY net price calculator for SUNY schools and the general net price calculators (IPEDs, College board)?</p>
<p>[SUNY</a> Net Price Calculator](<a href=“http://www.suny.edu/howmuch/]SUNY”>http://www.suny.edu/howmuch/)</p>
<p>[NetPrice</a> Calculator](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/netpricecalculator/]NetPrice”>Net Price)</p>
<p>About the net price calculators, younger son is a college freshman this year and I took his info and plugged it into the net price calculators for the schools (public and private) he was accepted to last year. In all cases the calculators underestimated his scholarship and grant aid. So it does seem that me that the calculators are conservatively estimating the projected aid. Hope this is true for this years seniors!</p>