<p>What schools give 100% need-based aid?</p>
<p>You have three categories mixed up, and indeed, in actual fact, they often overlap:</p>
<ul>
<li>100% need-based. This means the school claims to offer no merit-based aid (on the assumption that all the students have merit.) In fact, every school in the country that I am aware of recalibrates their percentages of a package that is grants/loans/work-study, etc. according to how much they really want a student, and their sense of competition with other schools. But if you have no "need", as they calculate it, they won't offer you anything. (There are exceptions to that as well, but as your need is very great, that's irrevelant.)</li>
</ul>
<p>Meeting 100% of Need - the schools pledge to meet 100% of your need AS THEY CALCULATE IT. Calculations school-to-school can vary quite widely, even wildly. And how they go about meeting that need - the proportion of grants, loans, and summer earnings/workstudy - can vary quite widely as well. There are schools that meet 100% of need that also offer merit scholarships to folks who don't demonstrate need at all, in order to steal them from the competition. Generally speaking, 100% of need schools are well-to-do, and there are probably only 75 to 100 of those. Some schools, such as NYU, are famously NOT 100% of need.</p>
<p>"Need-blind" - this is a rather deceptive claim that the college doesn't take need into account when making admissions decisions. Some actually may not on an individual basis (though I seriously doubt it - they may not have a dollar figure attached to your need, but they know very well whether you will require financial aid or not), but in aggregate they all must to maintain their budgets, and schools vary very little from year to year in the percentage of students who receive aid and those who don't. "Need-aware" can mean several different things: most commonly it means that in the last 5-10% of admissions (or just the waiting list), the admissions office totals up how much aid they've given out (100% of need being met) to see how much they have left. They remain "need-bleed" if there's more money in the kitty, or discriminate in favor of wealthier candidates if there is not. However, for some schools, "need-aware" means they are looking for low-income candidates who can meet their requirements, as part of their educational mission. And the terminology is weird: Amherst claims to be "need-blind", yet overtly seeks to increase the number of low-income students attending; Smith does exactly the same thing (though with a higher percentage of low-income students) and is "need-aware". There are probably fewer than 50 colleges in the country that claim to be "need-blind" - but I wouldn't let that bother you, as it is deceptive to begin with - some of the so-called "need-blind" schools have among the lowest percentage of low-income students.</p>
<p>I think the questionS you want to ask are:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>which schools are need blind in the financial aid process (they do nto take your ability to pay in consideration when making admissions decisions)</p></li>
<li><p>which schools meet 100% of your demonstrated need with large amounts aof grant aid. A school can meet 100% of your demonstrated need and be heavy on loans.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Cross-posted with Mini, who seems to have this covered</p>
<p>I guess I'm asking about 100% demonstrated need and need blind aid. I looked on usnews world report but can't find the info.</p>
<p>paulchem - the CB site has "average % of need met" on each college's profile under Cost & Financial Aid tab. I don't know if there is a way to search on that criterion, though. But you can check each school of interest to see how much need they say they meet.</p>
<p>"I guess I'm asking about 100% demonstrated need and need blind aid. I looked on usnews world report but can't find the info"</p>
<p>I think you'd have to go through the websites of the schools one by one. As I suggested, take it with a grain of salt - "need blind" could just as easily hurt your d.'s chances as increase them, as there are schools who are actively seeking canddidates from low-income families.</p>
<p>Why are you asking the question?</p>
<p>If your reason is that you're trying to find out how to get the best financial aid for your child, then you may not be asking the right question.</p>
<p>It probably would be better for you to post your child's stats, ECs, and other info, say your approximate family income and ask where she's likely to get the best aid.</p>
<p>If your D is a highly desired applicant at a school, the college may go out of their way to give her an unusually good scholarship package.</p>
<p>Since your D is, as I remember, a low-income URM with a good gpa who's interested in the sciences, she may qualify for exceptionally good need-based and/or merit-based aid at a variety of colleges. The same colleges, though, might not offer particularly good aid to students who are less desired.</p>
<p>Stats:
Junior Black Female in NYC Public School
SAT:600M 600CR 500W
SAT II: 550
ACT:waiting for score
GPA: 92
Height: 6 feet tall ( doesn't want to play basketball)</p>
<p>Curriculum:
9th-Honors Geometry, Honors Biology, Global, Spanish 3,4, English, Art
10th-Honors Algebra, Honors Chemistry, Global, Spanish 5,6, English
11th-AP US History, Honors English, Physics, Math B, College Business Course, Medical Lab
12th- WILL BE AP Calc AB, Anatomy & Physiology,Government,Health, English....</p>
<p>ECs:
Altar Server (9,10,11)
School Step Team (10,11)
Church Youth Group (9,10,
Church Sunday School Assistant (9,10,11)
Church Choir (11)
History trip to Paris (10)
S-prep courses (chemistry) at Columbia University (10)
Volunteer in Dean's office at school (10,11)
Gateway Institute for Pre-College Education (9,10,11)
Worked in Pediatric Ward at hospital (9)
American Chemical Society Project Seed (10& 11) (research lab)
Fashion Model
NAACP Act-SO Competition
Performer in Church Talent Show</p>
<p>Leadership:
Leader of Step Team in Fall</p>
<p>Awards:
Student of the month_Social Studies
Perfect attendance
Second Award and NAACP award at NYC Science and Engineering Fair </p>
<p>What schools will give her the best financial aid package with a household income of 37K and my D contribution of $3,000 from her summer job?</p>
<p>paulchem, that 92 , is that the only GPA type number your school gives out? How about class rank? If the 92 is the only number they give out for GPA and that number is unweighted, P.M. me and I'll help you recalculate the GPA in a possibly more favorable light. I need to ask a few more q's before I can start though. (D's school starts with a numerical basis also, but calculates GPA from that starting point.)</p>
<p>and BTW, my 5'11" basketball playing D can use that extra inch if you want to send it on down.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What schools will give her the best financial aid package with a household income of 37K and my D contribution of $3,000 from her summer job?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Keep in mind that FA is calculated as follows:</p>
<p>Cost of attendance-EFC (both parent& student) = demonstrated need.</p>
<p>The school decides your demonstrated need based on what it thinks you can afford to pay.</p>
<p>If you attend a school that meets 100% of your demonstrated need it will be met in a number of ways (or combinations):</p>
<p>Pell grant (if eligible and determined by the FAFSA)
SEOG (if eligible and determined by the FAFSA & if school has SEOG funds)
TAP (if eligible and applying to a school in NYS)
Work study (the amount varies by school)
Subsidized stafford loan (up to $2625)
Perkins loan (up to $4000)
Grants/scholarships (which do not have to be repaid)</p>
<p>This is really a hard question to answer because different schools calculate FA differently. I know in our case D applied at 7 need blind meet 1005 of demonstrated need schools and got 7 different aid packages with EFCs and grant aid and loan components despite sending the same financials to each school.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that most of this financial aid only pertains to students who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents. Some schools treat citizens of Canada and Mexico the same as U.S. residents in the FA process.</p>
<p>If you are not a citizen or permanent resident, you will be considered an international student thus limiting the number of schools that are need blind to internationals. In addtion there are only a handful of schools that meet the 100% of demonstrated need to international students.</p>
<p>It will not matter how long you have attended school in the U.S. because you do not have to be a citizen or permanent resident to attend k-12 public school.</p>
<p>What you are really going to have to do is sit down with your daughter to determine what she wants and needs from a college and which schools will meet her needs. It does not do any one any go to simply "go with the $"if it is a school where your daughter either does not want to attend or will not be happy there.
You presented a list of schools:</p>
<p>Kent SU
Rensselaer Polytech Institute
SUNY Plattsburgh
U Maryland Baltimore Co
U maryland College Park
U Pennsylvania </p>
<p>My personal opinion was that you did not have a financial saftey in the bunch and being our of state she really was not a strong candidates for the public schools (other than the SUNY) because they seem to be numbers driven. UPenn as every other Ivy will be a reach because they are reaches for everyone.</p>
<p>I know that you had NYU on your List. NYU does not meet 100% of demonstrated need, they gap and they are heavy on loan aid. I beleive their top scholarship is $25000 on over a $40,000 price tag. </p>
<p>They are few in number and end up going to the top of the applicant pool. I can tell you first hand as a graduate of NYU that you will be
heavy with loans at the end of her 4 years. Their FA department really does not try to work with you as far as negotiating aid.</p>
<p>Boston University they state in their FA policy that their FA is based on merit, so those at the top of the applicant pool get the most $$.</p>
<p>Your daughter has nixed the idea of womens colleges which would give her excellent aid and support. You could look at some of the schools under colleges that change lives:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ctcl.com/index.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.ctcl.com/index.php</a></p>
<p>If you are using the U.S. news on-line edition, I would suggest doing a sort by Financial resources. On the LAC's top 5 are:</p>
<p>Wellesley
Scripps
Swarthmore
Pomona
Williams</p>
<p>Then look at schools where her scores are in the Range. Check the FA policies at those schools because they will tell you if they are need blind and if they meet 100% of demonstrated need.</p>
<p>Then do the same process again for the national universities.</p>
<p>Hopefully you will be able to compile your list</p>
<p>paulchem - Thanks for the info which will help people make suggestions.</p>
<p>Is your D open to any geographic location? What about size of school/atmosphere she'd like etc? Does she have any inkling of what fields she's interested in or is she wide open on that?</p>
<p>For what it's worth, below is institutional need-based aid per student based on 2003 Common Data Sets for a small, selected number of institutions:</p>
<ol>
<li> Mount Holyoke - $12,792</li>
<li> Reed - $12,683</li>
<li> Oberlin - $12,262</li>
<li> Smith - $12,013</li>
<li> Amherst 10,925</li>
<li> Macalester - $10,764</li>
<li> Swarthmore - $10,595</li>
<li> Grinnell - $10,020</li>
<li> Hamilton - $9,795</li>
<li>Harvard - $9,527</li>
<li>MIT - $9,316</li>
<li>Princeton - $9,164</li>
<li>Stanford - $8,660</li>
<li>Bowdoin - $8,649</li>
<li>Williams - $8,560</li>
<li>Yale - $8,370</li>
<li>Dartmouth 8,132</li>
<li>Middlebury - $8,085</li>
<li>Haverford - $8,079</li>
<li>Colby - $7,638</li>
<li>Bates - $7,535</li>
<li>Washington & Lee - $6,279</li>
<li>Northwestern - $6,237</li>
<li>Davidson - $6,160</li>
</ol>
<p>What this number represents is essentially two things: 1) number of students requiring need-based aid, and 2) size of award for each student. It says nothing about merit aid, or the possible admissions/financial aid for any particular student or group. In the top 10 represented here, 7 make no claim to be need-blind. Most of the names on this list claim to meet 100% of need, which likely means that the lower on the list you go, the fewer students actually need aid, or their aid needs are lower.</p>
<p>There will be some changes in the 2004 list, notably in Princeton, with the no-loan policy kicking in. The impact of that policy, however, has the largest impact on admitted students with incomes between $85-$150k (the top quintile, but not top 5%.)</p>
<p>It really doesn't give you a list, but it is more info. to add to the hopper.</p>
<p>I would suggest that this student look at schools to which she might actually get accepted. It has often been suggested that college lists be built from the bottom (safety) up. I agree with this. To be honest, with her current stats, I find it unlikely that she would be accepted at any of the top 50 schools with certainty, thus making all of them reaches. It doesn't matter at all if you are eligible for full need based aid at a school IF you simply have a lottery chance of being accepted. HOWEVER, if this student looks at schools that are less competitive, she might find some significant merit aid in the mix. For example, a small LAC, York College in Pennsylvania, has a very low cost of attendance anyway (about $16000 per year for tuition/room/board) AND this applicant would be near the top of their applicant pool and would likely receive merit aid. I would also continue to look at the SUNY system schools as the student is in-state for these schools AND their costs are relatively low for college these days!</p>
<p>Everyone is giving me conflicting views. One says she can't get into LAC's , other say look at the SUNY system. </p>
<p>Her GPA is a 91.67 as of now. Her school does not grade high. Only 8 students passed the Math B regents and my daughter was one of them. She is in the hardest program in her school. </p>
<p>We'll I guess we will wait until September to speak to her guidance counselor.</p>
<p>We are U. S, citizens so we can obtain financial aid. She wants to be pre-med but major in Biology or Chemistry. She likes doing research in the lab.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>One says she can't get into LAC's , other say look at the SUNY system. >></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>These are not conflicting views. The SUNY system is this youngsters in-state university system and for most students, their in-state system is usually a safer bet than many other schools. There are MANY LAC's where this student would be welcome and would likely be accepted. The very top LACs (most of which are on Mini's list) are competitive for MOST applicants. Having said that...you can't get accepted if you don't apply. The important thing in any college list research is to have a menu of schools ALL of which the student would attend if accepted (otherwise, in my opinion, it makes no sense to send in an application). This should include safeties, matches and reaches both academically and financially. Somewhere on here there is a thread about colleges for "average" students. We found this to be at least helpful for our DD who has similar stats to the OP (realizing that 1200 combined on CR and Math is above average...but NOT superior). It's a starting point. If I were more savvy with this site, I'd post a link for you...hopefully someone else will do that for you because truthfully, I can't. The OP student profile is a good one and brings many terrific qualities to the college application process....for the right schools.</p>
<p>If financial consideration is of upmost importance- then you need to carefully consider SUNY and CUNY schools first. You've mentioned some schools in other post and I they are good choices. SUNY Stony Brook-and all other Suny University Centers would be fine for pre-med. CUNY Hunter ( and other 4 year schools B'klyn-Queens etc) are fine. I think you too are interested in U of Rochester and Boston. They are good choices and somewhat generous with financial aid. No one can tell you how much a college is going to offer you in financial aid until the college receives all the info-which includes Fafsa. So pick some academic and financial safeties. Take a chance on a few other schools which sound interesting and see what happens. There is "No conflicting information". We just can't tell you what the financial aid office is going to offer you. Good luck.</p>
<p>What is the OP student profile?</p>
<p>paulchem-OP=you,original poster. And "student profile" is what you told us about your D. Sometimes we speak in our own CC form of gibberish. To translate, thumper said that there are loads of schools that would love and cherish an application from your D, and will treat her with the respect her record deserves. Your job -help her find them. Our chosen task , for everyone who answered the call? Help you help her find them.That's all that's going on. Everyone is trying to get their arms around a piece or more of the situation.</p>
<p>I don't think people are giving you conflicting information as much as trying to cover all of the bases because there are really no cut and dry answers because so many factors go into the admissions process. I am totally of the mind set that if you think the cost of an education is expensive- try the cost of ignorance. It is easier to go into the process knowing as much as possible instead and realistically knowing her chances at schools, it it will be a good fit and a financially feasible option for your family than believing that she could be a shoe in at a number of schools because she is an AA female with a 1200, over shoot the process and end up with out a school.
Here is a link to the College Board's Reasearch article Decision Making Models: How U.S. Institutions of Higher Education Select Undergraduate students</p>
<p>In addition here is alink inside of the Admissions process at Amherst (video)</p>
<p>You can look up postings of some of the AA students that posted during this past admissions process: Stanmaster22, king, Jblackboy05, KB54010, Devilmaycry and Chocl8lvr (who is applying for the class of 2010) </p>
<p>You should start by getting a copy of your school profile so that you can see what your high school sends to colleges. It will tell you what % of graduates attend 4 year schools and where they end up attending.</p>
<p>Is being a URM a tip factor? Absolutely. But as I posted in one of my very first responses to you, more and more african americans are tossing their hats at elite schools. What does this mean overall for blacks; every one has to step up their game as being a URM is still going to be a hook, the pool in this population is going to be more competitive, whith more choices given to those that bring the overall "A" game to the table, as the pool is also participating in more rigerous courses offered by their school.</p>
<p>From the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education </p>
<p>*Yale Tops the Ivy League in Black Freshman Enrollments: *</p>
<p>JBHE has completed its annual collection of data on black first-year enrollments at the eight Ivy League colleges and universities. Blacks make up 9.3 percent of the first-year students at Yale University this fall. This is the highest rate in the Ivy League and the highest rate at Yale in the past decade. A year ago, only 6.7 percent of the entering class at Yale was black. </p>
<p>Harvard University also had a good year in attracting black students. There are 145 black freshmen at Harvard this fall. They make up 8.9 percent of the first-year class. </p>
<p>At the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, and Dartmouth College, blacks make up slightly more than 7 percent of the entering class. At Columbia University and Brown University, blacks are 6.8 percent of the freshman classes. </p>
<p>As has been the case for the past 13 years since JBHE began collecting statistics on black first-year enrollments in the Ivy League colleges, Cornell University has the smallest percentage of blacks in its entering class. This fall blacks are 4.7 percent of the freshman class at Cornell. </p>
<p>*Black Applicants Surge at Harvard and Dartmouth: *</p>
<p>Harvard reported this past week that it received a total of 22,717 applications for the class that will enter this fall. The number of applicants rose by 15 percent from last year's total. Black applications for the freshman class increased at an even higher rate. Harvard reports that black applicants increased 28.3 percent from last year. A university spokesperson stated that the huge jump in applicants may be due to the new Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, which essentially eliminates out-of-pocket tuition and room and board expenses for students who come from families with incomes of less than $40,000 per year. </p>
<p>In the year after the Cornel West controversy, black enrollments dipped slightly at Harvard. Now it appears that Harvard has weathered that storm as well as last summer's controversy surrounding the denial of tenure to African-American studies Professor Marcyliena Morgan. This denial of tenure caused Professor Morgan and her husband, Lawrence Bobo, the esteemed sociologist and member of the National Academy of Sciences, to take tenured teaching positions at Stanford. </p>
<p>At Dartmouth College, overall applications surged to their highest level in history. The admissions office reports that applications from "students of color" represented 25 percent of the total pool. Applications from blacks were at their highest level in the past four years. Good evidence that a frigid winter climate does not necessarily deter black applications to a college that is otherwise seen as receptive to black students. </p>
<p>Because there are more applicants applying to both of these schools this year, the 44% admit rate that Blacks got admitted into Dartmouth in the class of 08, the admit rate for blacks in the class of 09 was lower.</p>
<p>Black Participation in Particular Advanced Placement Courses: </p>
<p>In 2004 more than 78,000 African-American students took Advanced Placement examinations. Blacks now make up 5 percent of all Advanced Placement test takers nationwide. For both blacks and whites, English literature, American history, English composition, and calculus were the most popular AP courses. Blacks were 6.9 percent of all students who took the AP test in French literature. This was the highest participation percentage for any of the 34 AP subject tests. Blacks were also at least 6 percent of all test takers in the subject areas of English literature, world history, macroeconomics, and French language. </p>
<p>The lowest level of black participation was on the Spanish literature test. Only 56 black students nationwide took the AP test in Spanish literature in 2004. They were only 0.6 percent of all test takers in this subject. Blacks were also less than 2 percent of all AP test takers in the subject areas of electrical and magnetic physics, Spanish language, computer science, and German. </p>
<p>Here it is straight no chaser.</p>
<p>The reality is this, while 1200 is a very admirable score her writing (500) could be seen as her not being ready to write on the college level where there is a lot of writing goin on and very few multiple choice test, or she may have to start out with remediation. Her SAT II scores is also low and it could hurt her(especially if it is in a science or math and this is her anticipated major). The Chem Society Seed Project , the ACT-SO competition, S-pre Course in Chem and the hospital volunteering all which demonstrate her interest in science and health care (which she should really emphasize on her application) the rest of her EC's are not standouts.</p>
<p>She has a 92 average which makes her a stellar student at her school. She is one of 8 students who passed the math B regents (but only 8 students passing it may be a ding on academics of the school). I beleive that you mentioned that she is in a special program at her school, if it is a selective one all the better. Do you know where graudates of this program end up attending college?
She is going to be evaluated on the rigor of the curriculm as it compares to other NYC high schools. </p>
<p>This is not to take away anything from her and the work that she has done however, she is going to in the applicant pool (because NY, CA and MA has the largest number of represented students in the Ivies and Elite LACS) with students who attended more academically rigerous public schools that offer more APs, College courses, and have a larger percentage of students passing the NYS regents. </p>
<p>I know my daughter's safety school she decided to apply SAT optional at Mount Holyoke even though she knew that her scores were above high end of their admitted profile. She was very fortunate as she got accepted everywhere she applied but we spent a lot of tine visiting, researching schools, and putting together a list that met her needs. Her school allowed 78 applications, and after she got finished filtering out everything she wanted, she could not come up with 8 schools.</p>
<p>One of her friends put together a pretty to heavy list because she thought she was going to have a great shot (stats a little higher than your daughter) being an AA female, got rejected from Columbia, Barnard, Cornell, NYU- CAS. Accepted at BU ($7000 of aid on $40,000 package) Spelman (no $$) got some $ to do the PharmD program at St. Johns.</p>
<p>The process is capricious and arbitrary no matter what your background is.</p>
<p>Thumper is absolutely correct in stating that you need to take a bottoms up approach in putting together your list. Your daughter is definitely going to have choices, but it is up to the 2 of you to make good choices where she will be successful in the admissions process. As one of the handful of black parents posting on CC, I can only say cover all of your bases.</p>
<p>To Paulchem...you posted this, did you not? It is the student's profile...GPA, stats, ECs etc.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Stats: Junior Black Female in NYC Public School SAT:600M 600CR 500W SAT II: 550 ACT:waiting for score GPA: 92 Height: 6 feet tall ( doesn't want to play basketball)</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Curriculum:
9th-Honors Geometry, Honors Biology, Global, Spanish 3,4, English, Art
10th-Honors Algebra, Honors Chemistry, Global, Spanish 5,6, English
11th-AP US History, Honors English, Physics, Math B, College Business Course, Medical Lab
12th- WILL BE AP Calc AB, Anatomy & Physiology,Government,Health, English....</p>
<p>ECs:
Altar Server (9,10,11)
School Step Team (10,11)
Church Youth Group (9,10,
Church Sunday School Assistant (9,10,11)
Church Choir (11)
History trip to Paris (10)
S-prep courses (chemistry) at Columbia University (10)
Volunteer in Dean's office at school (10,11)
Gateway Institute for Pre-College Education (9,10,11)
Worked in Pediatric Ward at hospital (9)
American Chemical Society Project Seed (10& 11) (research lab)
Fashion Model
NAACP Act-SO Competition
Performer in Church Talent Show</p>
<p>Leadership:
Leader of Step Team in Fall</p>
<p>Awards:
Student of the month_Social Studies
Perfect attendance
Second Award and NAACP award at NYC Science and Engineering Fair >></p>