Need advice on choosing the course

Parents Forum
1

Hi, how are you ?

I have a 10th grade son, who has average GPA (90, then 88), questionable work ethics,
high PSAT score(1480 out of 1520) and 2 800 SAT subject test scores( Math 2c and US history).
He applied for 3 AP’s with precalulus for his junior year, his counselor wouldn’t let him take them because his previous Algebra II score was very low ( 80) and he didn’t submit his homework on time.

I’ve heard that in algebra school test, he got the right answer, but, didn’t show the work or showed it wrong.

Anyway, here are his options.

  1. 3 APs + function and modeling ( which leads to precalculus next year)
  2. 1 AP + precaclulus
  3. 3 APS + statistics ( which leads to AP statistics next year )

Which one do you think he should take?
He wants to major in business.

Thank you.

(I am also very curious. School prohibiting students from taking advanced course, is this common?
It’s prep school, I wonder whether this is the sorting process for college application.)

2

“Questionable work ethic” and not submitting homework on time says to me that your son has some more maturing to do and needs to work on his study habits. Better that happen now than in college!

IMO, he’s better off not overloading on AP courses, although it does depend on which AP courses he is considering as some are much more difficult than others.

Generally speaking, I like for students to be able to reach calculus by senior year if it’s offered so I would lean towards option 2.

My D’s HS absolutely had grade prerequisites for moving into advanced courses. There were also applications that the students had to submit that included teacher recommendations. IMO, this is a smart thing to make sure students are placed at the right level for them.

3

So…why didn’t he hand his homework in on time if that was required?

Get that answer before you make a course selection decision.

4

Which APs does he want to take? What do they have to do with pre-calc? Does the GC think it will be too hard for him? The reality is for a bright under-achiever which is how you have described your son, the difficulty of the class is not the issue, it is doing work he thinks is boring or unnecessary and showing the work which is the problem. With 800s on Math 2, he certainly should be in pre-calc, regardless of the algebra score. But agree with the others that your son had to figure out how to make himself do the work.

5

My kids go to public school. They absolutely prohibit kids from taking advanced classes if their teachers think they are not ready or their test scores (we take state tests) aren’t at a certain level. You can appeal the decision at our school and sometimes they are allowed in. Usually it seems like the teachers are correct in their assessments. My friends kids who have gotten in by their parents pushing an appeal have either struggled in the classes or ended up dropping them. My D20 has only taken one AP and a few honors. She has been recommended for more than that but I know with her work ethic and lack of organizational skills she wouldn’t do well in them. She works super hard but everything takes her a long time to complete as she is a perfectionist. I would listen to what the counselor is telling you as well as what your son is indirectly telling you by not turning in assignments and having a 90 average despite clearly being extremely bright.

6

I would go with 1 AP and Precalculus. First, it’ll introduce him to AP rigor without overwhelming him the way taking 3 without any experience in APs would. Second, he’ll be on track for either calculus or statistics, depending on his results, and as a motivation he should remember some business school’s will look at this zth grades closely.

7

The “questionable work ethic”, “didn’t submit his homework on time”, and “didn’t show the work or showed it wrong” seem like the main issues, regardless of course selection.

It does seem odd that a prep school has some very slow math and statistics tracks.

8

I agree with @MYOS1634 Having an 800 on Math 2c shows he’s ready for precalc. But having 3 APs could kill him if they grade HW (my DS tread that fine line when he didn’t hand in HW for his AP English course).

9

Here is the problem: your son does not seem to have a problem with test scores. I have one like that. Top test scores, mediocre grades. At this point, your son needs to address his gpa because that’s where he is going to have a problem in terms of getting merit money and admissions to the selective colleges. His grades next year are going to be crucial. Can he take the 3 APs or any courses and get top grades in those courses? That is where the crux of the matter is for him. What are the APs he can take?

What did I do? i let mine go the Stats route for math at school and he took Calc 1 and Calc 2 at the local college the summer between junior and senior . i followed it up with a tutor for BC Calc Senior year second term, right after grad and he took the AP exam. Got a 5. ThAt was after the fact, but it put him into strong standing for Calc 3 in. College. Had it been a local CC, it would have been more important to do this as some colleges do not like to take Calc credits from a CC. The 5 in BC Calc sealed any doubts of where he stood in math at college.

Sigh. Still did not get excellent grades junior and senior years. But at least had good rigor of courses especially with the 8 credits of calc he brought to the table at the start of senior year. He aced the courses that summer. Yes, it did limit his options as a college applicant. If he’d had A’s instead of B’s , his options would have been a whole other story. You don’t apply to the very top schools with a B average even with top of line test scores because the odds are that low of acceptance and you need to focus on what’s possible

10

Or that he somehow already knows much of the precalculus material.

11

Thank you all very much. I was away from the computer. My son took AP biology last year( didn’t do well. he was supposed to take AP world history, but went against my advice just because he didn’t like his teacher…)

He applied for AP US history, AP Physics, AP Psychology for junior year.

And his school doesn’t have Calculus class, they move from precalulus to AP Calculus.

Thank you very much, cptofthehouse, What if he can’t take calculus during summer? Do you think it’s still plausible to follow the statistics routes? how much do you think it’s going to affect his odds in college admission?

12

Then, he should take Precalculus and EITHER AP US History OR AP Physics 1 + AP Psychology, depending on whether he loves to read/write/analyze texts (= AP US History) or loves to manipulate math to apply it ( = AP Physics 1).
Based on what you said, I think that AP Physics 1 would play to his strength and provide just the right level of challenge, and if AP Physics 1 is not too overwhelming he could add AP Psych which is more challenging that a regular class but still easier than APUSH.
OR APUSH, which is known to be a LOT of work all on its own. He doesn’t need to take it anyway. But if he does, then he shouldn’t take AP Physics+ AP Psych, it’d be too much of a shock to the system! APUSH challenges even kids with social science AP experience and excellent reading/writing skills.

SO, my vote would be Precalculus +AP Physics1 (+ perhaps AP Psych if he’s interested only).

He wouldn’t take calculus during the summer. Doing well in precalculus will be the most important.

What colleges is he thinking of for his targets? What about your instate flagship(s)?
Do you have a set budget?

13

Thank you very much, MYSO1634, School ( Vice principle) firmly limit his AP number to 1, if he plans to take precalculus.
Do you think I should take this issue up to the principle? Do you think finishing just in algebra II and taking statistics route would hurt him too much? (I am also getting tired of asking him to do what he’s supposed to do… )

I was thinking of Northwestern before getting this semester’s grade, especially because his sister goes there.

14

Northwestern isn’t in the cards.

However you shouldn’t be thinking of colleges, he should.
College visits tend to motivate those who weren’t super interested.
Take him to visit Elmhurst, Loyola Chicago, Lake Forest, UIC (assuming you live in the Chicago area). Does he have a preference?
(Don’t take him to tour/visit Northwestern- no point in setting a standard that will decrease his interest in actual matches nor in dangling something out of reach. Any visit should be strictly ‘to see your sister’).

Yes, a business major would be more hurt by the lack of Precalculus than by the lack of APs.
At the end of precalculus, decide what’s best (calculus or statistics during the year, summer course, etc.)

So, Precalculus+ AP Physics 1 is the way to go.
(AP psychology isn’t a core course and it’s one d the easiest APs - it’s just a slightly more rigorous elective).

15

I would take college admissions (and future business major) out of the decision making and have him decide what subjects he is most interested in. I think the important thing is his life right now, in the present. And dealing with whatever is keeping him from his potential.

If he likes math, he could go for precalculus. I imagine the school can be convinced or if not, perhaps you can override the counselor somehow. Clearly he is capable so the school is not going by ability but seems to be sort of punitive in limiting him. That said, I know students who went to Harvard (not that he wants that, just making a point) after only getting to statistics in high school.

Does he do well with humanities classes, reading and writing? Is he interested in history or literature?

Maybe he basically hates school and interest isn’t relevant, but I do think that interest is generally a good path to doing well for many.

And for ALL kids, keeping stress down is important. These days student stress has skyrocketed. Making decisions about the here and now instead of talking a lot about college can help with that, I believe.

Finally, and I don’t want to get slammed for this, and no I am not diagnosing, but with a kid like this, top scores but mediocre grades, problems handing in homework, not following directions etc. I would see a psychiatrist expert in ADHD and see if that is a possibility. There is no definitive test for ADHD: a questionnaire is used (you can find the student and parent versions online). If that is not the issue, a neuropsych. evaluation might help. It’s good to do these things before college.

Your son is very bright but not doing as well as his standardized tests suggest. Maybe he is just a creative kid who doesn’t follow the rules. Or immature. Or addicted to video games. ( There is a book entitled “The Myth of Laziness” that you might find interesting.)

But it can be frustrating over time not to achieve potential. If a kid procrastinates, doesn’t handle details like deadlines, and doesn’t function as expected, I would try to find out why. Not just for course selection or college admissions, but for his life ahead.

16

Thank you for the replies. Myso1634 ,Thank you for precise and actual advice, I will just follow yours. compmom, I appreciate your deep insights and advice. Actually I brought him to psychiatrist, 6 years ago for the same reason, and he has some attention deficit, but was not within the clinical criteria, so medication was prescribed.
He used to be such a reader before the era of cellphone and laptop… Thank you very much.

17

Do you mean “no” medications were prescribed? I would revisit this issue now that he is older. Things become clearer as the work becomes harder. But make sure the questionnaire is used. Our neuropsych.'s all said that any clinical evaluation is bound to be distorted by the falseness of the context.

And even if medications aren’t the approach chosen, there are other types of support possible. He could have a tutor for time management. This kind of challenge can also inform college choice.

Check out Landmark College’s programs and they also can refer you to a coach who could work with him online or by phone to help establish better habits.

18

Once more I ask…why didn’t he hand in the homework that was required? Why?

I think you need an answer to that question before you do anything else.