Need advice on college choice, $$, etc.

Parents Forum
41

NE- I think that’s harsh.

I have a neighbor whose D’s dream school was Tufts. Don’t know why- but she loved the college, didn’t find anything else she thought was anywhere near as challenging and exciting when she visited, pined away for Tufts. Parents told her she could apply and see what happens.

She was admitted and although the family has had some financial challenges lately (job loss, switches, etc.) they had savings and assets and got zero aid. They were loath to ante up once they saw the REALLY good deals their D was getting once all the acceptances were on the table. So it was Tufts at full freight- the scary prospect of spending savings not knowing if they could replenish in time to retire- vs. some other options that were MUCH cheaper- all fantastic options.

I won’t tell you the end of the story- but I don’t think a family is forced to write a check in August 2017 based on numbers they ran in July 2016 when they were putting a list together and coming up with an application strategy. It doesn’t make them duplicitous. I can assure you that if my neighbors had any idea that they’d have such fantastic financial offers they’d have taken Tufts off the table well before the application got sent.

42

I do think that “we made a mistake” was more possible in December when the SCEA decision and projected costs of attendance arrived. But the kid’s had 3 months thinking he is going to Princeton. Sure, the parents can say “we made a mistake”, but only if they really made a mistake… “We just didn’t think you’d get in” isn’t the same thing as “we made a mistake” - and, again, that was 3 months ago. “We made a promise and changed our minds” also isn’t okay in my opinion. Not the same thing as “we hadn’t added it up and it turns out we can’t afford it”.
I agree with Blossom, the parents need to pull out the spreadsheets and see whether it is last-minute jitters over the enormous costs, or whether it’s a real problem - between stretching for something, and brankrupting the family, for instance.
If “we can afford it” = “we make the kids take on federal loans and work over the summer, with no ‘special’ spring break, and we’ll hold on to our current car for 4 more years”, it isn’t the same as = remortgaging the house.
If you wanted to retire at 58 and have to work 4 more years, it isn’t the same as planning to retire at 65 and Princeton derailing this by 10 more years.
Also, the OP mentions paying something in-between Princeton and a UC, so OP’s son may have been admitted to another college, which then should be visited before Princeton or instead of Princeton.

1 Like
43

We did not veto our D applying to her dream school. Our initial, quick, glance at the NPC over the summer put it in the uncomfortable, but not out of reach range. In addition, we knew the odds of getting accepted were not great. But, it seemed really, really important to her to toss an application at them. There is also a lot of talk around her school of applying and THEN “seeing what happens” (with finances).

Well. She got accepted. When we took a more serious, detailed look at the COA, I realized I had made some mistakes. I hadn’t accounted for a 3-5% increase each year. For a family that would be “cutting it close”, this made a big difference.

Worse, the initial calculations we did, pre-application, I forgot to look at the FOUR year COA and failed to take my oldest kid out of college for the youngest’s sophomore through senior year. The COA numbers jumped up dramatically.

On top of all that, towards the end of 2015, after applications were in, it was looking like H was going to be getting a large end-of-year bonus due to a restructuring of his compensation package at work.

In addition, in November and December of 2015, I had a couple projects fall into my lap. If those stick around through 2016, our income will be higher, and running the NPC on the dream school —definitely, decidedly, no doubt about it—takes it off the table.

Some will say we should have done a better job with the NPCs in the first place. Some will say we should have vetoed applications to any schools we were not willing to pay for. Some will say, go ahead, let them apply, they (the kid) will be able to “see” the sensible choice and choose wisely (financially).

Yes, our D is/was frustrated with us. But during application season, she was not at all receptive to a short list filled with big public OOS universities willing to throw full tuition and full tuition plus merit packages at her. She wanted to include some more prestigious privates on her list, and her GC encouraged her to do so. Again, we did not veto.

Another case here of we’re doing the best we can in a shifting landscape.

44

Let’s not lose sight of the fact that P has EA, not ED. No contract has been signed yet. The benefit of EA vs ED is being able to compare FA offers. That needs to be part of the family discussion.

45

I had no trouble stipulating that my full freight kids were going to get funded for 8 semesters. Anything else- not my problem. I had no trouble stipulating that Spring break was for coming home to interview for a summer job (or in a few cases, going to another city to interview and land that summer job.) I had no trouble saying “if you want to study abroad it needs to cost less than what we are already paying” and discovering that one kid found a fellowship with a research AND travel stipend to make it cost less than what we had budgeted for.

And telling them- virtually from day 1- that after graduation they could live at home rent free, use the washing machine, etc. but finding a job with health care benefits which would either pay for grad school, or launch them into a career was on them. Nobody was going to Europe after graduation to decide which path they wanted to take in life.

I admit it is humbling having my late 20 and early 30 somethings out-earn me… but I’ve gotten over it!!!

46

Finally a “voice of reason” THANK YOU @Mom2aphysicsgeek

You work it out with kids, making sure they fully understand the sacrifices the family will have to make. Your son
may have to make some sacrifices as well! Nothing wrong with your son having “some skin in the game”!

47

<<<
cannot imagine parenting in a way that everything was written in stone. Life happens. Things change. Life isn’t fair…Our kids know we do the best we can, but sometimes even our best just isn’t good enough for everyone to have the best possible outcome.


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I agree. I don’t think the parents should be made to feel that their “word doesnt mean anything.” Intelligent beings understand that sometimes, after deeper inspection, decisions need to change.

I know someone who bought a prepaid tuition for their child because they always wanted her to go their flagship. In their minds, that prepaid would make everything affordable. For years, we heard them say that their child was going to X school. They hadn’t done the math to realize how much room, board, books, fees, etc would add to the cost. They, too, were approaching retirement and they just couldn’t swing the other costs, even with the child taking a student loan and working a bit. She ended up using the prepaid at a local univ and commuted. I’m sure there were some disappointments, but she’s now an RN and doing very well.

The OPs son has applied to UCB EECS and other top UCs. If he gets in, particularly to EECS, it would make no sense to spend twice as much for P’ton.

48

OP, I really feel for you. I think some posters here are being a little harsh. We have all made promises to our kids that we couldn’t keep. Okay, this isn’t the same level as “sure, you can have an ice cream cone, I promise. Oops, I didn’t realize the ice cream shop was closed.” I think it is normal to indulge in the dream, because you are so sure it won’t happen, yet you want to believe it could. It happened, and the reality is brutal. I do not think this means you have no integrity. I think this means that your child will learn that sometimes people are not able to carry through a plan, despite their best intentions.

I do not agree that every decision made with our kids must result in the intended outcome. How will OP and her husband realistically retire if they spend $500k on their kids’ education? They are humans, they realized a true fact after something they thought wouldn’t happen, happened. It doesn’t make OP and her husband bad, untrustworthy parents who couldn’t keep a promise to their child. It makes them humans who have learned a truth the hard way.

I love my kids more than life itself, but I would not sacrifice my retirement because I had not fully discussed the ramifications of an unexpected outcome. It’s an unfortunate situation, but the OP and her husband are not bad parents because of it.

49

For context, here is another of the OP’s threads, with a list of schools intended to apply to:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1789885-best-schools-for-math-comp-sci-with-undergrad-research.html

The list includes three UCs, Michigan, and nine expensive private schools. Student is a prospective math or CS major.

In another post:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19029884/#Comment_19029884

Student applied to UCB for EECS, and is in-state for California.

Putting it together, the student has presumably been admitted to two of UCs (probably as Regents’ scholarship candidates, since they normally do not notify this early).

The possible choices from the list will be the UCs at around $32,000 to $34,000, Michigan at around $57,000*, Princeton at around $64,000, and other private schools at similar or higher prices to Princeton.

*Michigan will have an additional increase on reaching upper division standing, beyond typical cost increases. Also, Michigan is stingy with transfer credit for college courses taken while in high school.

50

Yes, I looked at that list, too, and can’t believe to OP did not look at costs of all those schools as part of the process. My opinion – the OP knew the cost before applying, but is now having trouble parting with the money when it is a reality. I don’t think they “didn’t do the math”. I think they are just having second thoughts. Which they should have considered earlier. I know the Alabama crowd thinks this parent should pull the rug out from under this kid, but I don’t.

51

Yeah, it’s not just Princeton that’s expensive. All private schools are expensive and OP must have known the cost when the student applied.

52

Note that the OP wrote that “Money is not a factor in the decision” in http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1789885-best-schools-for-math-comp-sci-with-undergrad-research.html .

53

Yup. The kid did his job in his applications, but the parents didn’t do theirs.

54

Wow, so much feedback in just a few hours. Thanks so much to all who posted, we are carefully reading and evaluating each post! This is truly a “first world problem” and personally I am going to work on being grateful to be in this position.

This is one of the reasons that I posted–to try to help other folks reading this in the future. Even though it is a slim chance that your kid gets into an Ivy school–don’t count out the possibility that they really will get accepted!

55

But would you do this before or after your kid applies? I think timing is the key issue here.

@Midwest67 wrote

I can see us being in this boat, and I can’t fault you for it.

Our tax return (just completed) for 2015 is way out of whack in comparison to what we’ve earned before (or will earn in the future), and it’s going to make the NPC’s look even more ghastly than they already were looking when we ran them earlier. At this point I’m not sure that D17 should apply to any reach schools, because it’s going to be so disappointing to her not to be able to afford it.

56

Did the son get any merit money from UofC or USC?

57

I’d be “shocked” too if I were in your son’s position. It’s your money, which you don’t have to but you offered to spend on their education and then you changed your mind. I would just tell them the truth as you put it here, which is “technically” you could afford it but because you want to retire sooner, you’d rather not to pay for Princeton. Give them the “bottom line” and open student loan as a option with elaborate explanation of pros (if any) and cons. It might be hard to swallow to him, but he’ll understand in the end.

58

Honestly, @motherofdragons, in our reality we would never have uttered the words,“Money is not a factor in the decision.” But, there have been times when we have planned on doing something, the kids were looking forward to it, and then we didn’t follow through bc when push came to shove, making the payment was more than seemed prudent at the last minute. It was a matter of didn’t, not couldn’t, bc in the larger picture, other options seemed to make better financial sense.

Parents are human. They make mistakes. They might have gotten caught up in the hype and the “elite or bust” thinking. Sounds like they are 2nd guessing that position. Excitement about possibilities and paying the piper may end in direct conflict.

In my world I cannot fathom not being able to question the wisdom of a $200,000+ expenditure.

59

Re #56

Student loan is not really an option to cover the price difference between the UCs and the others. It would require parent cosigner, which is generally a bad idea.

60

@squeakywheel

It’s not the end of the world. Here’s my story.

When my D applied to undergrad, we had prepared the fund so that financially, she could go to any school in the US. Her “dream school” was a private institute, just as costly as Princeton. Looking at her application, one would think that she was “destined” for that school. Well, she didn’t get admitted.

Needless to say, she was devastated. She ended up at a flagship state school.

A few years later, she applied for PhD and received 5 acceptance offers. Financially, they were all comparable, +/- a few $K a year. One of the offers came from her (ex) dream school. She turned down the offer from her (ex) dream school and accepted one from a public school.