Need Advice on Selecting from Engineering-School Admits

College Search & Selection
1

I am a first-time poster here; so, apologize in advance for any violations of norms etc.

Our son applied Engineering-UNDECIDED and was admitted to the following schools, and is now leaning toward Mechanical/Aerospace, though wants to keep an open mind through Freshman Year:

LISTED BASED ON 2017 US NEWS ranking of UNDERGRADUATE ENGINEERING SCHOOLS; second number refers to overall US News ranking of all national universities:

Illinois (UIUC) (#6; 44)
Purdue (#9, 60)
Wisconsin (Madison) (#14, 44)
Virginia Tech (#16, 74)
Penn State (University Park) (#18, 50)
Maryland (College Park) (#24, 60)
U of Virginia (#32, 24)
Case Western Reserve (#37, 37)

Virginia is in-state for us and, in terms of overall reputation (US News), U-Va is the highest ranked of the eight schools above. That poses a dilemma for him. Even setting cost aside, U. of Virginia is ranked toward the bottom of the list above for Engineering (at #32), but is ranked #24 overall among all universities (US News national list). Here are the questions he is struggling with:

  1. What matters more: Overall ranking or Undergraduate-Engineering rankings? How do employers view them?
  2. U-VA has half the undergraduate student population as Illinois does (both overall and undergraduate). Does that make an APPRECIABLE difference in the learning experience, given the student-faculty ratios are 15:1 (U-Va) and 18:1 (UIUC)?
  3. Anything else he should bear in mind (internships, minors, co-ops etc) when making a final decision?

Thanks, in advance, for any opinions, advice and recommendations!

2

With this list I’d be looking most at school fit. Some of these schools have much different cultures, strengths, and size of the engineering schools. For example, we looked at UVa and VT engineering and I felt they were very different engineering schools. UVA is smaller in engineering and seems much more geared to students moving onto grad school. Big emphasis towards research in virtually all engineering concentrations. VT is a larger engineering school that is using it’s strength in STEM to broaden it’s non engineering STEM fields/majors. You are seeing a lot more collaboration between engineering and these newer STEM majors, and research dollars are flowing now. Also VT is big in internships, huge job fairs 2x a year. So very different schools, not to mention the difference in vibe on campus. NEITHER is bad - just different. I’m sure other engineering schools have similar differences.

Given that he’s gotten into such strong schools, chances are he will be successful academically wherever he goes. So again I’d look at fit. Urban school, bigger school in small college town, easy to get home, want to get away from VA? Interested in sports and the school spirit that goes with it? Does he want to intern closer to home and save $ on rent for the summer, or see a new part of the country? I’d consider all those things…

Oh and personally, I’d be more concerned about engineering ranking - unless there’s a good chance he will want to change out of engineering. VT for example is much lower in overall ranking but their rep in engineering is very very strong. These kids are heavily recruited and GET JOBS!

3

Ranking has very little to do with the quality of engineering schools. All of them are ABET accredited, so they pretty much offer a similar education expereience. Certainly from an employer perspectie, one school will not matter that much more from another on your list. The pay for a graduating engineer will be similar from pretty much all the schools. You should be concerned with the overall cost of attendance and the job placement statistics for their graduating seniors. But as a VA resident also, I’d say VT has a stronger engineering school than UVA.

4

He should consider how hard or easy it may be to get into his choice of major from engineering-undeclared. Some schools have a competitive process and his first choice or even any engineering major may not be guaranteed.
Other considerations:
Can you afford all of them? Would he need loans for some and not others?

They are all solid choices. If it were my kid I would set aside the rankings at this point and choose based on other criteria–price, necessity for loans, major concentrations, desired location, which one he likes best, etc.

My kid is at a strong but lesser ranked engineering school in a big city and has not had any trouble finding internships, she’s been offered research opportunities, and speaks highly of the learning experience.

Size of classes may well depend on student-faculty ratio within his major. My D is in a very small engineering major on her campus. Her major classes often have ten or fewer people. Her more general classes (she has some in civil engineering and has taken a few crossover ME courses) tend to be much larger–more like 50 in upper division classes (but she’s at a smaller school than your son’s choices).

My kid looked at ASU vs UArizona for engineering. It sounds similar to your VTech vs UVA options. ASU was more the in-state powerhouse, and UA was the much smaller program, more “nurturing” for lack of a better word. She ended up choosing a different school entirely, but between those two, she would have chosen UA for reasons of fit.

Good luck to your son with his decision–he has some great options.

5

He should look carefully at his admission to check whether he is admitted to:

  • A specific engineering major.
  • Engineering undeclared or first year (pre-)engineering in the engineering division.
  • Undeclared, not in the engineering division.

Declaring or changing to an engineering major can have varying levels of difficulty, and can depend on initial admission status.

All of the following use a first year (pre-)engineering program. However, some or all majors at some of these campuses may have selective admission to get into an actual major later. Investigate how difficult the GPA and other requirements will be to get into the desired major. If admitted as non-engineering undeclared, it may be additionally difficult to get into an engineering major.

Purdue (#9, 60)
Virginia Tech (#16, 74)
Penn State (University Park) (#18, 50)
Maryland (College Park) (#24, 60)
U of Virginia (#32, 24)

For the other schools:

Illinois (UIUC) (#6; 44) mostly admits to major, but students had to option to apply to engineering undeclared, which would be like the schools listed above. It may also admit engineering applicants as non-engineering undeclared, after which it is very difficult to get into an engineering major.

Wisconsin (Madison) (#14, 44) admits to major, but has progression requirements to stay in the major that may include GPA requirements as high as 3.5 (ME was 3.2 in major, 3.0 overall to avoid being weeded out for 2016-2017).

Case Western Reserve (#37, 37) advertises a “one door” policy which is supposed to mean that there are no additional admission barriers to any of its majors. He may want to verify with the departments of his majors of interest.

6

Be sure you agree with magazine editors’ weighting and methodology opinions before placing importance on them.

7

Both UVa and VIrginia Tech are good instate options and will provide plenty of opportunities. If cost is not a concern, or you have need based or merit based aid to bring down the cost to at or below your instate cost, then I would focus on fit more than any rankings. These are all good schools. Is he able to eliminate any of them yet? Good luck with the decision.

8

Has he visited the campuses? All those are great schools for engineering although some are better. If you want to look at ranking, check for specific program. Even for alumni network may still depend on the major. We have visited the top 3 schools on your list and my D was accepted by them. They are very different in some aspects and largely in financial aid. Make sure you check out the return rate after freshmen year and percentage graduate in 4 years of all these schools. One extra semester may cost more than the 4 year total financial aid difference among schools.

9

Also, keep in mind there is a slight chance he may decide to change majors so it would be important that he like the overall vibe and opportunities ,apart from engineering.

10

At some of the schools, the chance may be greater than slight that he will be forced to change majors, due to the GPA thresholds or competitive admission to get into (or stay in) his desired major.

11

UVA and UIUC are your best 2 choices. UVA for the faculty ratio, cost and the academics. UIUC for rankings, academics and something different. VT would be third for cost.

“VT is a larger engineering school that is using it’s strength in STEM to broaden it’s non engineering STEM fields/majors”.

VT is not like MIT, Caltech, Gatech, RPI or WPI. It is most similar to a smaller version of Texas A&M… with the corps.

VT is a normal, large, state liberal arts university that has an engineering department. It is no different from other large state landgrant universities. 80% of the students are from Virginia, a 35% of which are involved in engineering. Most large public universities in the US have the same percentage of engineering students as Virginia Tech.

Other universities in VT’s size and STEM % range:
Penn State, Maryland, Minnesota, UT Austin, NCSt, USF, Houston, Iowa, Oregon State, Auburn, Tennessee, Illinois, UCF, Wisconsin, Washington, Michigan, Florida, ASU, Utah, Purdue, Texas A&M, Kansas State, Iowa State, Mississippi State. In California there is UC Davis, UC Irvive, UC San Diego, Cal Poly, UCLA, and San Jose…

A better name for VT would be “Va State” or “Va A&M”. The “Tech” part is a marketing ploy from the 90’s. Historically the school was called VPI, however that wasn’t cool. So, they started calling themselves “Tech” in the 90’s → http://www.unirel.vt.edu/history/historical_digest/

12

@Greymeer ,Well, actually, about 70 % of students at Virginia Tech are from Virginia ( a large, diverse state) and currently over 40% of engineering students are from OOS (which some Virginia residents are not that happy about). For a Virginia resident, both UVa and VT are very good options.

13
  1. To the extent employers care about prestige, it's the prestige of the engineering department not the college overall.
  2. A larger college can offer more classes, providing the opportunity for more depth in a particular subject area, but you won't get that many electives in an undergrad engineering program, anyway.
14

“The tech part is a marketing ploy”. Many schools have gone through name changes. That is not unusual so it is funny you have chosen to single out Virginia Tech. Illinois was Illinois Industrial University, Maryland was Maryland Agricultural College, Penn State was Agricultural College of Pennsylvania, etc.

All of the schools under consideration are good schools. Hopefully a budget was set with your son before applications went out, and he will work within that budget to pick the school that feels right for him. Good luck with the decision.

15

I agree these are all good schools.

  1. First, cross off options based on affordability. Don't pay a crazy premium for out of state if you can't afford it. Zero or minimal loans is always the goal.
  2. When your affordable choices are left, he should decide based on a visit if at all possible. Different schools have different vibes. This is going to be home for four or five years, he needs to be in a reasonably comfortable setting. He has a lot of big state schools on the list, Case will be very different from those.
16

Your son is going to have a hard time choosing from that list.

Considerations he might want to use are:

  1. Cost
  2. Ease of getting into the major of his choice
  3. Fit: school culture can be a big deal for some students. Engineering is hard work and it may be that he’ll do best in an environment that best fits his personal style. For some kids it doesn’t matter much at all, for others, school fit is a big part of the equation.

UIUC and UW-Madison are both terrific schools but does your son love them so much that he’d be happy graduating from one of them with his third or fourth choice major?

Given what we know, I like Purdue or one of your in state options. Let us know what he chooses and why.

17

In state Virginia? - Go to VT for engineering. Not worth paying OOS for UIUC or UW-M.

18

Keep in mind that UIUC, although in the top ten for aerospace, is in a state that has not had a budget for almost two years. All state universities are severely underfunded, and Moody & Poors is about to review their ratings, which may have an even more negative effect. H and I are both alums and we didn’t have D17 apply because I’m not at all convinced that UIUC will be solvent four years from now.

19

The big difference in the engineering rankings is the quality of the students and research. Engineers work in teams, and having highly talented peers makes a big difference in a student’s engineering experience. That being said, you won’t see a huge difference between VT and Purdue but you will between CWRU and UIUC.

Personally I would choose between VT and UVa depending on fit. It is not worth the extra $25-$40K/yr for OOS when you have 2 excellent in-state options.

20

Thank you all for your thoughtful and helpful replies. There is much here to ponder and factor into our thinking. As always, it comes down to weighing a bunch of considerations and deciding based on what’s best for a particular student, not on some idealized, optimum. There were many pointers here that we had never thought about; so, this has been an eye-opener and will truly help him narrow down his choices, if not outright get to a final decision. I will respond individually–and briefly–to individual comments, while being mindful not to drag this discussion out. Thanks, again, for the gracious and generous insights. I’ll post again once he decides.