Need advice re:choice between U Va and U Maryland (College Park)

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm a UVA E-school grad as well. However, I'm also a parent with one off to college and two more to go. When I look into my crystal ball I gotta believe your DS will end up in the same place regardless of where he goes undergrad. I have a number of friends who are professors in UVA's envi sci department and they've remarked that, while all of them are essentially in the same place professionally, they came from widely disparate academic institutions, particular for undergraduate school.</p>

<p>Help him understand that, with two truly excellent choices, it's much more important <em>what</em> he does in school than <em>where</em> he goes. Besides, he gets to watch ACC basketball regardless! He really should do the financially responsible thing. <gulp> Go Terps!</gulp></p>

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<p>University of Maryland! ( And I am a Virginia resident!!). He will graduate with no debt and a great education.</p>

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<p>I'd certainly vote for UMD. (This, from someone who's already got one D at UMD, with the second one most likely headed that way).... and both were also accepted (in-state) at UNC-CH. I suspect many of the reasons my kids didn't want to go to UNC are similar to why your son doesn't want to go to UMD. With my older D, it seems like most of the kids from UMD keep close with friends they already knew...if they want to. Most of her friends had made significant social networks (with no previous high school friends) shortly into their first semester.</p>

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<p>Another vote for UMD.
UVA is nice ....but not 80,000 debt nice. Really, I don't see HUGE gulf in quality between the students at UMD and UVA. But UVA does have more prestige especially for kids in MD.
My son is in state in the honors college at PSU. Same kind of concern...most top kids in state want nothing to with their flagship. Those who did choose PSU are happy now - probably very similar to kids at UMD. It really IS possible for top kids to be happy at their state school. But I think it helps to go in with a positive attitude.
Look at it this way...you can help your s with his full education...not just UG. Just like some others have suggested, give him some extra dollars after he graduates (1-5K per year- whatever you can afford). That way he can see that you are making a longer term investment and also see the value of the UMD choice. IMO, you should do what you can to steer him away from 80K in debt.</p>

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<p>I vote for UMd - it really is not the same place that those who are now parents remember. The effort to improve the school has been very steady, and seems to have really paid off. It is still a huge school with more drinking, Greeks and sports than I like, but it is very possible to find a good crowd. Focus on getting into a dorm that will provide social contacts - honors or whatever is possible these days.
80K is just a huge debt these days - sit down with your son and let him do the math to see how much he'll pay and for how long.</p>

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<p>My husband taught at U-Md for some 20 years before moving to another university last year. He would be the first to tell you that the caliber of the AVERAGE Maryland student can be shockingly low, notwithstanding the generally higher stats that most incoming freshman have than was the case when he started out there. HOWEVER, the honors program is a different story. In addition, students who are passionate about learning and interested in doing research at the undergraduate level definitely stand out, and can create some great opportunities for themselves (as well as great letters of rec for grad/prof school).<br>
As far as prestige, the real issue for doctors, lawyers, PhDs etc is the strength of their graduate institution. No one really cares where you went to college, and there are plenty of top graduates from top grad/med/law schools who went to schools that you've probably never heard of.</p>

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<p>Tis true what Claremarie says: If you are seriously considering law/med/MBA, nobody cares where you went undergrad only where you went for your law/med/MBA.</p>

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<p>Another VA parent who says..Univ of MD Honors is an excellent smart path. We ALL know how fine MD high schools are and that he will in school with many great peers who also can Read the Headlines and know we are in a major recession....he can stand out and head for the work force or grad school in a position of strength and he may need to take chances and extend himself in the economy he will graduate in four years from now. Perhaps you can help him get to his next destination also with more strength if you does honors at MD first.</p>

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<p>Another VA 'rent checking in. U of MD honors over UVA, no question. 80K is a lot a debt to shoulder before med/grad school. Don't discount research opportunites at MD - NIH nearby and nice teaching hospital in Baltimore.</p>

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<p>UMD just opened a new Bio building in the past year with new facilities. A friend of S's is able to do research both at UMD and NIH, and is taking a graduate course as as a soph.</p>

<p>All that said, if the choice were UMD vs. W&M, I would be hard-put to give advice. Those two are substantially different in size and scope, and W&M OOS may be the right decision for a kid who is looking for a smaller, selective, more LAC-like environment.</p>

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<p>I agree with the Maryland choice here, although I do concur with the parents that warn of the negatives of the experience. College Park is in PG County - frankly a dismal place, with high crime and incredibly poor educational attainment - and it matters in terms of the culture. There are also a number of non-serious students at Maryland, which again degrades the culture. The honors program is excellent, however, as are the engineering programs. Marian's warning is a good one. </p>

<p>I never understand why anyone who lives in the DC area with children that might go off to college choose to live in Maryland (except for the wealthy). The public college choices in Virginia are vastly better, and taxes in Virginia are a bit lower, too. </p>

<p>Maryland suffered for years (as professor friends have informed me), because the state legislature year after year poured resources away from College Park - a foolish thing because with its location it could have been a Univ. of Michigan - opting instead to fund the troubled money pit that is Baltimore - along with the Detroit and New Orleans - one of the most dysfunctional and dangerous cities in America.</p>

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<p>We are out-of-staters and just toured UMD this past week. My reaction was that anyone in-state would be crazy to send their kid elswhere given the beauty of the campus, quality of the programs (especially engineering), and price. UMD put my state U to shame. It was a great place!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
There are also a number of non-serious students at Maryland

[/quote]
</p>

<p>:: snort ::</p>

<p>Yeah, one would never find "non-serious students" anywhere else (such as UVA), would they?!? lol!</p>

<p>katydid, did you see the gorgeous performing arts center? The halls in it are fabulous; great sight lines, wonderful acoustics.</p>

<p>Maryland offers quite a lot in addition to excellent engineering and computer science. The journalism school is well-regarded, and I've known many a pianist who studied at Maryland and then moved on to Julliard. (Great music library, too, BTW.) There are other strong departments, too, and yes, the campus is lovely. It's too bad you didn't get to see it when the trees were in bloom!</p>

<p>And it's tough to beat how close UMD is to DC, and how easy it is to get to Baltimore, Philadelphia, and NYC. </p>

<p>Good place for bikeriding, too. There's a great run/bike trail that runs through campus called the Paint Branch Trail. From it, one can pick up the Northeast Branch trail, which connects with other trails, including the Northwest Branch trail, which connects to Sligo Creek trail, and so on. Heck, on weekends, one can bike over to the College Park (or Greenbelt) Metro stations, and ride Metro downtown, bringing the bike along. Once downtown, there's always... well, downtown, of course, in addition to biking in Rock Creek Park, or down to Mount Vernon, up the C&O Canal, and so on.</p>

<p>One can easily get to the developing East Coast Greenway (East</a> Coast Greenway) from campus, too.</p>

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<p>Isn't U of MD Baltimore County supposed to be the bio-tech flagship? I thought that those programs were being concentrated at that campus. If College Park is just too hateful, could that be an in-state option?</p>

<p>What county are you in? Here in Montgomery County, lots of the talent seems to be heading to Montgomery College for the first two years. They even have several honors programs.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
We are out-of-staters and just toured UMD this past week. My reaction was that anyone in-state would be crazy to send their kid elswhere given the beauty of the campus, quality of the programs (especially engineering), and price. UMD put my state U to shame. It was a great place!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not negative on UMD. My son went there and had a good experience -- better than I had expected, actually, with much more personal attention and much less bureaucracy than I would have thought possible at such a large campus. (He was in computer science, which is one of the better departments.) He is now in graduate school and is very satisfied with almost all aspects of his undergraduate experience. </p>

<p>BUT...</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Although the campus is lovely and Washington, DC offers many interesting things to do, what's in between -- namely, Prince George's County -- is a borderline slum. The quality of the area deteriorates within a couple of blocks from the edge of the campus. Charlottesville, where UVA is located, is not like this. (This issue may be particularly relevant to kids who push the limits of what's permissible under the law. You would not want your kid to end up in the hands of the Prince George's County police.)</p></li>
<li><p>Although UMD is superior, academically, to many state universities, it is still not in UVA's league (or Berkeley's or Michigan's or UCLA's or UNC-Chapel Hill's). Unless something is done about the quality of the area surrounding the campus, it never will be. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>You need to know these things in order to make an informed decision.</p>

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<p>Even though older son is at UVa and loves it, I would opt for Maryland as well in this case due to cost factors. Younger son went to sports event at Maryland last year and I thought the campus was lovely . In reference to Marian's post, Charlottesville is a great town but even it has some sketchy areas, especially near some of the frats and off campus housing areas.</p>

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<p>I have to take exception to some of the characterizations others have provided of PG County. I moved from a crime- and drug-ridden area of Montgomery County to a very safe area of PG County. PG is not without its issues, but calling it a "borderline slum" and "dismal place" is not at all accurate. It's a large county, almost 500 square miles, and has many different facets to it (just as Montgomery County does, as it is also large).</p>

<p>PG is majority black and has a significant Hispanic population. There are unsafe areas in PG, certainly; there are also unsafe areas of Montgomery County, of DC, of Fairfax, and so on. I think people who aren't used to being in the minority might feel out of place in many parts of PG (and DC, and MoCo, and Fairfax, and Alexandria, and Arlington!), and possibly uncomfortable as a result.</p>

<p>I regularly bikeride through College Park and the areas around it, ofttimes by myself, but have done so also with my kid (when he was smaller; he's too cool for biking with his mother now, you know!) and with my husband. I have never felt unsafe riding through these areas. I'm very familiar with them and also with the parts of Montgomery County which abut PG County, which has an overwhelmingly Hispanic population.</p>

<p>I have to agree about the public school system, however; it has its bright spots, but generally is poor.</p>

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<p>I agree, owlice. </p>

<p>There are good and bad pockets throughout the state. Montgomery, PG, and yes, even the money pit Baltimore has more good than bad. </p>

<p>I grew up in Montgomery County. When I left for college I didn't know I'd never move back. But after living in several other sections of the state I have to say, "don't knock it till you've tried it." </p>

<p>(Except for PG and Baltimore schools. They're indefensible.)</p>

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<p>I think that students come in with different comfort levels regarding urban environments.
It's certainly a consideration, but I want to point out that many students choose to go to Penn and the West Philly area has had its share of bad pockets and problems with crime. </p>

<p>To the OP: Let us know what the final choice is. And remember that your s is very fortunate to have a choice between two good schools!</p>

40

<p>Having been there, done that, and made the wrong choice with S1 (even though he is doing fine)--send the child to UMD. Its not worth the extra money. If you really want to give the child something extra, invest part of the savings in his name.</p>