Need Blind-College Search-Frustration

Parents Forum
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<p>Just getting started on the whole college search process with my teen. Frankly a bit overwhelmed. We visited three schools in our region. She said although they were really nice she didn't feel a "spark." My reaction: this is a beautiful school etc...Her response, all the girls I have seen look and sound the same-"preppy." I asked her to explain what preppy meant to her and she said, they all are blond, thin and sound the same and she started imitiating the language style which sounded superficial. I guess she didn't feel a sense of diversity at any of the three schools we visited, or if there was one, it wasn't obvious to her. The kicker was that when we were leaving one of the nicer schools a few male students were crossing the street to get back on campus and one of them yelled at a truck driver blocking his way, "get out of the way faggot." My daughter looked at me and said, see what I mean mom? She goes to a school that places a strong emphasis on diversity and she lives these values. She has always been emotionally very intelligent from an early age and I did understand her point, but at the same time I didn't want her to be too picky and reject a school without looking a bit further beyond the appearance of things.
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<p>Anyway, to my main question. My teen goes to an excellent prep school and gets a generous financial aid package. I am a single mom and struggle to make ends meet. (she doesn't have a nanny, cook, pricey SAT tutoring, trips around the world etc.) that her classmates have. We had to stop music lessons because I couldn't afford them and so forth. We also have a fairly long commute back and forth which cuts into time left over for activities. How will an admissions team know this if they are need blind?</p>

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<p>Need-blind doesn't mean the colleges don't know or can assume financial status. It means that they do not use the ability to pay as a factor in their admissions decisions. </p>

<p>Of course when a fee waiver is used for the appliation fee they might know then. But again the "need-blind" policy is not whether they know or not, it is that it is not "supposed" to be a factor in admission decisions. Participation in Upward Bound, Quest, other Trio programs will also indicate low income. </p>

<p>Kat</p>

3

<p>I'm not sure what your question is. If you need financial aid for your daughter at college, you will submit an application for financial aid -- and she will get aid in accordance with the college policies.</p>

<p>If you are afraid that the college admissions process will be detrimental because your daughter comes from a good prep school and seems privileged -- no need to worry. Colleges LIKE kids from fancy prep schools - they admit them all the time.</p>

<p>If you think that the colleges might make extra allowances for your daughter because of hardship in her life.... I wouldn't count on it for a kid coming from a good prep school. Yes, you have it rough -- but she has been fortunate enough to have the advantages of the private school, so she is theoretically better off than many kids who go to weaker public schools. </p>

<p>However, if there is any true hardship in your daughter's life or special circumstances that should be considered -- then she can mention it in an essay or her guidance counselor, at her request, can inform the colleges. But being the daughter of a single parent who is wiling to drive her a long distance each day to school would probably not be considered a "hardship".... I'm a single parent and my son WALKED to the local public school, I didn't consider it to be a hardship for him, but the point is -- your daughter is lucky by comparison. It sounds like you are the one who is having the hardship, with all the extra you do to make things easier for your daughter.</p>

<p>As to the preppy/diversity issue -- I think you should be proud to be the parent of such a sensitive, caring daughter. There are many colleges where she would find more like-minded students. The Princeton Review 361 Best Colleges book is a good place to start, because it has lists that give a sense of campus culture, including these categories: </p>

<p>-Lots of Race/Class Interaction</p>

<p>-Diverse Student Population</p>

<p>-Gay Community Accepted</p>

<p>See: <a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingCategory.asp?categoryID=2%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingCategory.asp?categoryID=2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>These lists are not infallible -- they are based on student surveys and other factors and often reflect campus stereotypes more than reality -- but it definitely is a good starting point to find colleges that may be a better fit.</p>

<p>Finally: seriously consider public colleges. My daughter goes to a very diverse, very tolerant private college -- but the reality is that there are a lot of rich kids there. Your daughter may simply be more comfortable with the mix of kids at many public universities, so you should at least plan to look into that possibility.</p>

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<p>My son also wants a caring, tolerant, quirky (not preppy) campus. There are lots of colleges that fit this description. We used The Fiske and Insider's guides and read the descriptions, then visited. You or your daughter can borrow some of these guides from your library or guidance office and see which are most helpful to you. I also recemmend Colleges That Change Lives.</p>

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<p>If you are looking for a leg up in the admissions process I think Calmom is right you're not likely to get it. In the unlikely event that your daughter is first generation college some colleges give a tip for this. I say uniikely because I imagine that all the parents on this site are college grads. If any of you are not please do not take offense. I can't think of a more valuable use of this site than for first generation kids and their parents.</p>

<p>You might visit was Bates, up in Maine. It's need blind. It's also too far off the beaten track to fill everyone's definition of diverese, but I think they try. Lot's of folks seem to think it has the type of atmosphere your kids are looking for.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
How will an admissions team know this if they are need blind?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They won't, unless your daughter mentions it in her application or -- perhaps more appropriately -- her guidance counselor mentions it on the recommendation form. </p>

<p>If you and your daughter think that it might be of value for colleges to know that she has overcome some hardships that her classmates do not face, you might want to ask the counselor whether he/she feels that it would be appropriate to mention this in the counselor recommendation.</p>

<p>If your daughter is interested in women's colleges, she should know that Wellesley prides itself on its diversity.</p>

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<p>Don't be surprised at the "superficial" aspect of choosing a school. The "gut feeling" factor regarding the student body shouldn't be denied. Reading this board, you'll find many stories of the kids going to visit a school and saying No before they even got out of the car! The point of the visit is to see if your d can picture herself on the campus. If she can't, for whatever reason, cross the school off the list. I'd never discount the "gut feeling" factor, especially when there are so many other schools to check out.</p>

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<p>Also, if financial aid is a consideration and you own a home or have any other assets (bank accounts, CD's, etc), you may want to consider at least one FAFSA only school whereby your home equity is not factored into the finaid calculations. Has your daughter looked into the state flagship U in your state (wherever that is?)? These larger schools tend to have a larger and more diverse student body demographically (financial, ethnic, social, geographic) than some of the private schools. Many have fine honors college programs too. Also...FREE ADVICE...don't make any comments about the schools you visit with your daughter. I know that sounds ridiculous...but it's not. Take a digital camera, take pictures, pick up written information, start a file. Let your daughter reflect on the school and respond with "ah". To be honest, the more I commented favorably on a school, the less my kids liked it. I learned to keep my opinions to myself with the first kid...on the second college visit. Both of my kids would advise you that your d's "gut feeling" is every bit as important, maybe more so, than anything the school has to offer.</p>

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<p>raichelann:
Check out newparent's posts. Also from the archives, Chinaman's posts. Both had kids in prep schools, both got full rides to top colleges. Going to a prep school on scholarship is no bar to receiving financial aid at colleges.
Need-blind means that the colleges do not take into account the applicant's financial situation when deciding whether or not to admit. But in order to receive financial aid, an applicant (or parents) should fill out FAFSA or whatever financial aid forms the college uses. You can try filling out online forms to see how much finaid your kid could qualify for.
Some colleges give only financial aid based on demonstrated need (as computed by them, not by the applicant's family, and this may be quite different). This is called need-based aid.
Many (all?) of the need-blind schools do not offer merit aid, that is, aid based on the applicant's superior achievements. For many middle class families, however, that do not qualify for need-based aid, merit aid can be extremely important in making ends meet.</p>

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<p>I'd like to thank everyone for the helpful responses. I can see that I will be spending a lot of time here at CC trying to help support my daughter by information gathering during this stressful process. I wish colleges had more Saturday tours because I don't know how I can take time off of work to visit a lot of them. I took two days off last week and we only managed to see two colleges. The local schools she can visit on her own, but looking at the school calendar she doesn't have any time off until the end of the school year. So far the list we have compiled for visiting is the following:</p>

<p>Brandeis; Bennington College; Colgate; Hamilton; Wellesley College, Swarthmore; Bryn Mawr, Barnard, Sarah Lawrence; Bowdoin (now Bates); Trinity; Colby; Connecticut College; BC; BU; University of Virginia;U-Richmond; Vassar; Kenyon; Weselyn; Middlebury;Smith. That is the list at the moment. </p>

<p>Do parents recommend the college fairs?</p>

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<p>You could always mention it in the Other section of the college app: "Received need-based scholarship from xx Prep school." </p>

<p>But, only a few colleges might care -- Williams, for example, does consider socio-economic status ("soc-ec"), but still claims to be need-blind. The UCs also give tips to low income kids, but primarily those from low income neighborhoods or low income high schools.</p>

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<p>Keep in mind, you do not have to visit all the colleges you apply to before you send in the application. Most often reading college books, the college website, and CC will give you enough of an impression whether or not to at least apply.</p>

<p>Once your daughter gets accepted, you can then visit the schools.</p>

<p>I applied to 11 schools last year (class of 2010), and I visited 7 of them.</p>

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<p>RaichelAnn--Definitely attend college fairs! They are super-helpful since all of the admit counselors are there and you can talk to a lot of schools in a weekend. Also be sure to attend any recruiting tours that come through your city. D #1 found her college at the college fair--we had literally never heard of it and we ended up talking to the recruiter because the better-known schools were swarmed and he was standing there by himself so I started chatting with him. </p>

<p>I think pre-application tours are fine IF you are "in the neighborhood" but it is a poor use of time and money to go traipsing all over the country with a sophomore or a junior. We did a couple of trips early on and then I told D. to focus on college fairs and on the road shows--we live in a large city so lots of schools come through in the summer and early fall and make presentations. You can visit a school's website and get their touring schedule. </p>

<p>Save your money for application fees (they add up!) and sending test scores to various schools. Then, when your D. is admitted, visit her top choices.</p>

<p>The advantage to saving your $$ and time for admitted student tours is that you get a much better feel--the students are usually assigned a student host, they stay in the dorms, they can attend classes, and they can meet individually with professors if they want to. It's very difficult to spend that much time as a prospective applicant. </p>

<p>I also second the recommendation to look at public schools--especially honors programs. I don't know what kind of size or program your D. wants but St. Mary's College of Maryland is a small liberal arts college, public, and very affordable and diverse. UM-College Park honors is big, and I've read excellent things about it. Also check out William & Mary if you like smaller schools.</p>

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<p>Yes, some of the college fairs are worth attending -- its a good way to find out about more distant colleges that you might not consider or be aware of otherwise.</p>

<p>You have a great list of college to visit, but keep in mind that while it is nice to visit, it is not absolutely necessary to visit all colleges before applying. If your daughter visits a few and gets a sense of what she likes & doesn't like in a college, there are other sources of information. It can be hard to get much of sense of what the students are like during summer visits -- my daughter refused to even consider making summer visits for that reason. She only wanted to visit college while they were in session.</p>

<p>I have 2 kids in college who collectively applied to 21 colleges. In all that time I never visited a college until after my kid was admitted! (I've only seen 2 college campuses). My son didn't visit until well after he applied, and then he visited only 3 campuses. My daughter traveled on her own to visit, from west to east coast -- she took time of from school for the visits, which I didn't like, but she worked it out with all her teachers so she managed to keep up with her studies. </p>

<p>My guess is that if your daughter does some reading about the various colleges, she may drop some of the ones you have listed without visiting, because of concerns she has already expressed. Sorry - I can't tell you which ones -- but the point is she already knows she wants a diverse and tolerant atmosphere, and she can find out some information through other sources. Reading college newpapers is one that people often don't think to do, but it can give you a good idea of the issues affecting students on campus -- and most colleges ave their newspapers available on line. Here's a link to help find them: <a href="http://www.collegenews.com/campusnews.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegenews.com/campusnews.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>If your daughter is at a prep school, chances are that college reps will pass through (our public school seems to attract lots of college reps ). There are also admission information sessions that are held on weekends or in the evening (we attended one by the Stanford rep on an evening).</p>

<p>If you can tell us more information about your D, we could give some advice. Most of the LACs on the list are very similar both in terms of general profile and selectivity. The big exception (literally) is BU. Bowdoin and Bates, by the way, were the two colleges we visited 7-8 years ago, where the adcoms were encouraging Asian-Americans to apply (not that there were many in the audience!).</p>

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<p>This may have been mentioned but it bears repeating: read through the threads of kids who were accepted at schools that do not meet 100% of need and now are heartbroken that they cannot afford to attend.
Please be sure your daughter applies to a few schools that either meet 100% of need or that are affordable or will give her merit aid. Don't assume that the schools will come up with all the financial aid needed to attend.</p>

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<p>Ebeeee is absolutely correct. Even at schools that are need aware, need or lack thereof is typically taken into account for a small percentage of applicants, so it should NEVER stop anyone from applying. Instead, worry more about getting up to speed on financial aid, and finding schools that meet full need for a high percentage (or all) of admitted applicants. I have a list of such schools - PM me if you'd like it.</p>

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<p>To the OP:
Our family life & profile is not dissimilar to yours. The colleges & U's understood that the attendance of D#1 at a "fancy" school was not incompatible with great financial need, and that many such needy students are often aided generously at such high schools. However, not taking anything for granted, we did provide sufficient indication of this in the app. itself (separate from the financial aid docs). </p>

<p>The separate issue others have brought up (regarding financial "safeties") is also an issue for us. It's esp. important for any student who needs aid & is not in the running for one of the super-duper merit scholarships at schools of application. (Worth mentioning only because it is often extremely hard to qualify for hefty merit if the student has attended a rigorous & competititve high school such as your D might, where it is so difficult to be top 1,5, or 10% -- sometimes even top 15%. It is way easier to qualify for large merit aid if one comes from a mid-level public and also happens to test well.) </p>

<p>And also (obviously) there are huge variations in the existence of, and the amounts of, merit aid in privates -- and in the publics which still offer that sort of thing, for example for in-staters. It's requiring lots of research on our part to find good academic, social, emotional AND financial fits. But the business about the supposedly ritzy profile of the private high school should not be of great concern. You might cover yourself with a couple of comments about that in the app., and it may be evident also when they see family occupations, e.c.'s, zip code (unfortunately not always a giveaway!), and other aspects. Big difference between a publicly funded sports or art program as an e.c. and private ice skating lessons, etc.</p>

<p>I know exactly what you mean, too. Most of the families we know whose students attend decent publics are considerably better off than we are, even <em>before</em> we pay our portion of private school tuition. The school does not indicate the level of financial need.</p>

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<p>Raichelann, Welcome! Plunging into the college search and application process can be overwhelming at first, but it's fun too, so take a deep breath and keep asking questions.</p>

<p>My son was interested in many of the coed colleges on your daughter's list. After visiting, some fell off, some rose to the top. (He's now a senior at Williams.) I think as she continues to research and talk to friends and advisors, she will be able to get a better idea of the ambience that will best suit her and can then expand her wish list into reach/match/safety tiers. There's a lot of overlap among college personalities and once she identifies ones that she loves (or hates) she will be able to add or eliminate others with the same general personality.</p>

<p>Without knowing your daughter's individual qualifications it's difficult to predict, but from what you've written I'd say she's going into the process with the best of both worlds behind her. </p>

<p>As a student at a solid prep school she will be well prepared and able to do the work on the level required by a rigorously academic school. She will receive good advice and counseling.</p>

<p>As a multi-ethnic American, first generation to attend college, from a low income single parent family she has many of the demographic attributes that even the more traditionally "elite" colleges are looking for. In other words, she fullfills their diversity needs (in several categories!) but is low risk as far as ability to succeed in a college setting.</p>

<p>"Need blind" has become as ambiguous as "Natural" in food labeling. Looking at it from a positive, glass half full, aspect your daughter is exactly the kind of applicant who will benefit from a needblind policy -- whether it's 100% bonafide or not. Many of the colleges on your daughter's list have ample funds that are just burning holes in their metaphoric pockets to get allocated to high achieving non-white, low income kids. I say this without a trace of irony: If you got it, use it! </p>

<p>To the question of whether a kid from a low income background would fit in at a college where many of the kids come from upper middle or even incredibly wealthy families: I would give a qualified yes. The kids at most colleges are accepting of diversity of all kinds -- economic, racial, religious, sexual, you name it. You need to beware of reverse stereotypes as well; even preps schools aren't traditionally preppy any more. Having said that colleges, especially small LACs, have distinct personalities and a visit can turn the tide in the most inexplicable, subjective ways.</p>

<p>I would strongly suggest that you and your daughter take a look at Questbridge if you haven't already done so. This is a wonderful organization that goes to bat matching up low income kids with selective colleges, many of which your daughter is already interested in.</p>