Need Help/Opinions - Rutgers, Michigan or Minn/Guthrie BFA?

<p>yes, we do not have a la or ny showcase but ken washington always makes sure to bring in casting directors and agents to see one of our two final showcases at the guthrie…and plenty other directors and industry professionals come in to direct us and teach workshops. not to add to the fact that every season at the guthrie always employs a good handful of current bfa’s and alumni. yes, we don’t publicize our grads successes, but i assure you, they’re working. one of the recently graduated srs is playing juliet at hudson valley this summer. i know of an alum who was just working at osf. i know of at least 2 working regularly in tv in LA. 5 or 6 grads are working in the acting company this year. not to mention santino who is the “poster boy” of our program’s success. another one of the recently graduated srs filmed Christopher Shin’s Four last summer, which I just heard will be making rounds at film fests this year, including sundance. this is a short list of things that i’m pulling out of my head at the moment. i’ve heard tons of news of grads working. and the faculty does make an effort to help you find work once you’re out of here…it’s nothing like “here’s your degree, good luck being clueless in the biz” as fishbowl has described it. and like any bfa program, there are some grads who are working non-stop right now and others who aren’t. it has nothing to do with the program itself…</p>

<p>and you as often as i usually agree with what fishbowl has to say, it’s not a program’s fault that an actor is “clueless in the biz”. i’ve only just wrapped up my sophomore year…as our first 2 years here are considered the foundation years, we have not touched too much on the industry and business side of things yet. but i do consider myself quite a resourceful person and i’ve learned so much about the business from doing a lot of personal research on my own. i would say shame on you if you can’t use the available resources out there to learn about the industry. </p>

<p>i do not mean to say that i think my program is the best and is one to rival juilliard. but just like at my program, every year j-lard will graduate a class that includes people who will snag work right away and then there are others in that same class who won’t find work, at least for a while…</p>

<p>2012transfer, are there statistics showing what percentage of a program’s graduates are working in the field? I asked a similar question at Tisch (what percentage of graduates have a gig within a year), and was told they don’t have those numbers. Clearly if there is a source for that kind of information it would be a tremendous help in this forum.</p>

<p>OnceActed, I respectfully disagree. For better or worse, cold, hard, numbers can’t show the full picture- they leave out both good and bad. Think about it- how can you define “working in the field” quantifiably? As convent as comparable statistics would be, and as much as I sought them out on my own college search and selection, in retrospect, they really don’t mean much at all. The more weight we put into them, the more distorted the picture becomes.</p>

<p>we also have to take into account kids who may graduate from programs who choose not pursue acting…one of my company members shall be leaving this year to work as a musical composer full time…i heard one of the seniors would prefer to work behind the camera in film and tv. i, myself, am quite set on acting, but in two years, i may decide to devote my time towards my music and concentrate on being a recording artist. people’s career objectives shift upon graduating, shortly after, or long after. i know a soon to be sr bfa acting major at michigan who will be auditioning for MFA’s next year in addition to applying to law school…yes, most kids in BFA programs are pretty set on acting, but there are a few who decide that performing is not what they want to devote their life to even if they choose to complete their theatre training. A soon to be sr here is planning to go to circus school once he finishes up to eventually work as an aerialist in the future.</p>

<p>numbers really can’t give the bigger picture of things. we should all stop trying to compare schools and pitting each other programs each other in hopes to say one is better than the other. schools never make the performer. they just teach tools to help polish what is already there–raw talent. it’s up to the individual to be receptive of everything they’re given …sometimes all the variables will line up and the student will open up and learn to continually tap into that thing, that “spark”, that makes a phenomenal actor so compelling to watch. but sometimes, it doesn’t work that way. there’s a reason why we’ve all seen graduates of the “top, big name” schools and thought they weren’t very great…we’ve all been guilty of seeing a single performance that led us not to just judge the performer, but also the program they trained at…and sometimes, it happens when we’re watching a grad of programs we personally have high regard for, be it our own or a dear friend’s school/program</p>

<p>Hear, hear, CCer2014. Great post.</p>

<p>Just so you’ll know why I said what I said …

</p>

<p>That’s straight off the Guthrie Facebook page from someone who’s already graduated. I didn’t think it would take long to find something like that because it’s been my experience that it’s pretty common coming from both students and graduates. </p>

<p>Now look way back to the first page of the old threads to a post by Budcinco from May 12, 2004 … [College</a> Confidential Discussion](<a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?4/66659]College”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?4/66659)</p>

<p>I’ve been hearing stuff like that for years. When I was a senior in high school, I heard a lot of the same type of thing when I went to the callback weekend. The girls I stayed with didn’t just bag on Juilliard, but pretty much every other top school. Lotsa talk about “cookie cutter actors.” In fact, there’s still a girl on the program’s introductory video that says “they don’t just turn out cookie cutter actors” as if any other school does.</p>

<p>I always found it off-putting and actually ranted about it a little on the old threads without naming names. Now that the program is something like eleven years old, I’ll suggest it’s time for it to stop. It’s kinda bush league, doncha think? Maybe CCer2014 can be the one to lead the way. But … apologies if it’s already stopped and I’m not saying she does it.</p>

<p>In fairness, Rutgers has in the past been guilty of it, too, although it’s been more them crowing about being “Top 3” in the country from some undisclosed ranking. They also put a senior on me to “answer questions” who pretty much launched into a diatribe about how awful all my other choices were the second time I went through. I wasn’t the only one, either. Remember, I went to a top arts high school and more than one of us had acceptances to these places. And yes, I have dear friends who have been to almost all of them. </p>

<p>Juilliard is off topic, but when it becomes a regular occurrence for graduates to go to work on Broadway, in major films and on network TV all the way up to the series regular level the first year out of school at some of these other BFAs like it has with Juilliard lately, they might have grounds to talk trash. 'Til then, it’s put up or shut up. At this point, I don’t see enough put up to justify nullifying the latter. Indian or arrow? Who knows? But it is what it is …</p>

<p>So, what did you decide, Will Shake?</p>

<p>P.S. I also want to say that I think it is natural for students and their families to want to assure themselves that they have made the best possible decisions since they are making a huge decision, in terms of an investment of time and family resources. I think the trash-talking is just another way of expressing insecurity and hope for the future.</p>

<p>But remember, there are many possible paths one can take with many possible outcomes. One could potentially choose any of these three programs, make wonderful connections at any of them, and have a wonderful career. The only way to know for sure would be to live three simultaneous lives.</p>

<p>CCer2014 makes a good point about how people grow and change. Two years ago my daughter would have thought her goal was to attend NYU Tisch or Rutgers (by the way, she was able to get her Tisch studio changed.) But, she has grown and changed in the past 18 months, and learned that she has strong interests in other areas of the theater world in addition to acting. In the end, she decided against Rutgers and Tisch, in favor a different program, a program that was unknown to her last year. Who could have predicted this? Not me. </p>

<p>Good luck to all of you!</p>

<p>i definitely agree with you fishbowl…it’s unfortunate how some kids here will trash talk other programs. but since i’ve been here, it hasn’t seemed a huge problem here…my pet peeve is when students at any program trash talk others. yes, i’ve had times where i’ll talk about another school and say how i might disagree with their philosophy or aspect of the school, but i would never discount the program’s actual quality.</p>

<p>maybe i’m lucky and i’m in a company that is not rampant with kids who like to trash talk…i mean there are a couple kids in my class who are a little cockier than i think they need to be about our school, but i do think its gotten better as we’ve matured and cared less about being in a “reputable” program. i don’t know. most of us know we’re at a good place and that we’re lucky to be given the opportunities we get, but seriously, we care more about the training and work than to be in the “best” program in the country. and plus, we run into our fair share of problems here in our projects that humble us…aka the fact that the theatre dept generally gives us little to no tech support for our projects or even money for that matter until our senior year. just getting a lighting designer for a project is considered a blessing. yea, cool…our faculty says that it forces us to rely even more on our acting, but that’s one thing that we unfortunately don’t have the access to since the program is on the newer side…the university, being a public institution, cares more to fund our shall i say less than stellar athletic programs so they make cuts that cost the theatre dept which makes it even harder to get money for the bfa program. and neither do we have a well-known, “famous” actor to have come from the program to make a huge donation or bring in major donors. and that’s probably due to the fact that we have yet to credibly say we’re the best.</p>

<p>as i’ve said, this could just be my class. i’m only friends with a small handful of kids in the other companies and the rest i’m just vaguely acquainted with, so i don’t know how they are as far as bagging on other schools.</p>

<p>sometimes, the kids here who judge juilliard may be judging the work of a juilliard graduate on the guthrie stage that they thought was less than stellar. but as i said before, we all make the mistake of thinking that a singular performance can and should define an actor’s ability. and two of the adjunct faculty here at the program that we love happen to be graduates of the J…i think the reason why people always think we’re comparing ourselves to juilliard is the simple fact that the training is quite similar to what juilliard does or used to do (someone correct me on which that is).</p>

<p>but it isn’t just people here that trash talk. i think it’s probably rampant anywhere you go. i experienced it quite often while visiting other schools and when it came time to choose, there was a program i was definitely very close to attending but decided against it mainly from the trash talking i experienced while eating dinner with some of the students there. but in all honesty, it’s probably just young adults voicing insecurities that they’re hiding…</p>

<p>and just some info for people not in the know of current news about my program…we’re currently undergoing some big changes. judy b, the ken to the university aspect of our program, shall be retiring at the end of this year…with a new program director, i expect changes will come (some of us are hoping for a camera class or at least more workshops that will give us chances to work in front of the camera). also, a new freshman year acting teacher joined the program my first year and this year, we have added a new voice/speech faculty member. at least for me, i can’t imagine being here without having had my two foundations year with them in it. and with the addition of the new voice/speech teacher, a voice over unit was added to the jr year curriculum.</p>

<p>yes, we’re finally 11/12 years old and somewhat established and even though we’re no longer officially guinea pigs, i see that the faculty is still enthusiastic with trying new things every year. change means that the program and its reputation has a possibility to grow.</p>

<p>and at least for me, i have tons of respect for the program at juilliard. i will happily admit that the class of 2014 there all were probably better actors than i was before i started here at umn…but that’s true about most of the people in my class. i was at a messy place for about 18 months that made me probably one of the worst actors in any conservatory acting program. i don’t know how we compare now, but i do know i’ve made huge leaps here at school. but it doesn’t matter if they’re better than me or not…my ears will perk up when i hear someone has come from juilliard or my school or any school i’ve heard good things about. it doesn’t affect my final judgement of a performance i see, but i will admit, a school i’ve heard of will grab my attention. i was simply referencing juilliard since we all have a tendency to use it as a reference point when comparing schools. i could have easily thrown in cmu or whatever other program people tend to rank as the #1!!! school. but yes, the truth of the matter is that there are far more juilliard graduates working than the alums from here. i do think, however, it’s safe to say that we’ve made some significant strides since the program’s conception and more and more students and grads are working than they were before.</p>

<p>fishbowl! i tried pm-ing you for a question, but apparently you are no longer accepting pms…any way i can contact you? it was simply a question concerning showcases and stuff, but i’d personally rather not have my discussion with you public. please let me know. your opinion is always valued and usually great advice!</p>

<p>Hey folks,</p>

<p>This sort of ritualized inter-school rivalry is just a normal part of college life in the United States. Usually it is in the domain of sports. eg “Our school’s _______ team is better than this other school’s ________ team!” And then if you try to rationally say, “Umm, but hasn’t that other school been having a better season than your school, and didn’t they actually beat you when the two of you played . . .” they will say “Oh no, that just because of yadda, yadda, yadda, really we are the better team!”</p>

<p>So for the folks for whom sports isn’t really that important, it might instead take the form of “Our acting students are better than their acting students!”</p>

<p>Don’t take any of this seriously.</p>

<p>KEVP</p>

<p>Well I think all 3 programs are fantastic - no trashing one over the other from me. I felt like I won the lottery being able to pick from 3 fantastic schools. That was part of the problem for me - I really wanted to go to all three!!!</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I was helpful to me as I struggled with the decision. Hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life so far!</p>

<p>In the end, I decided to go to Rutgers over Minnesota/Guthrie and Michigan. I felt all 3 programs were fantastic. It’s hard to pinpoint any one specific reason for picking Rutgers. I’ve been thinking about Rutgers since I was in 8th grade, I really liked the students I met and the faculty, its close to New York City, I get a YEAR at the Globe Theater in London as part of the program. </p>

<p>I think Minnesota has a great program too. Love Minneapolis, the faculity and students that I met, Guthrie opportunity is one of a kind. Michigan has fantiastic facilities, beautiful campus…I could go on and on.</p>

<p>Good luck to everyone next year!</p>

<p>Congrats Will! My daughter really liked Rutgers for all the same reasons as you. It was her #2 choice.</p>

<p>Congrats WillShake! I wish you the best on your coming journey! It’ll be a wild ride! There are certainly aspects of your guys’ training that I’m jealous of. I still remember the then Sophomores when I visited working on Suzuki and really being amazed by the work they were doing.</p>

<p>My best friend here has a good friend who is in the rising junior class at Rutgers, so I expect I’ll be hanging out with some Rutgers kids this fall in London :)</p>