Need help out the starting gate-matches

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I need some help to launch my son toward selecting some appropriate colleges. I feel a tad overwhelmed helping in the process--especially when we don't know what his final SAT scores are going to be...</p>

<p>We live in Maryland. His current HS is more average compared to some competitive schools in the wealthier counties closer to the "government action", so he turns to individualized study and our local LAC to compensate.</p>

<p>Statistics:
June SATs: Math-720, Verbal-600, Writing-590
(Is retaking them this weekend to attempt higher scores)
Oct SAT2-scores not yet received for math, physics or chem</p>

<p>AP scores: Calc AB-5, Calc BC-5, Chem-4, Phys-5
(Currently taking AP classes in World Hist, Bio and Lang, maybe 2 more if no conflict)</p>

<p>Independent study: Calc 3, Differential Equations
Taking hardest math course at local liberal arts college--currently high A</p>

<p>GPA- actual unknown (Guesstimates-unweighted 3.8... weighted @ 4.5)
Rank--prob 20/300+ (due to grading differences when changing schools over where numericals for an "A" begin.)</p>

<p>ECs-
Track, Football
Key Club
National Honor Society
Academic Team
Engineering Club</p>

<p>Local Honor-
Kiwanis-Science Dept chose as "Student of Month" award</p>

<p>Interned at NASA CCMC at Goddard all summer '05</p>

<hr>

<p>Wants (he thinks) to major in any of math (applied or theoretical), physics, chemistry or some branch of engineering. He knows he is good at these things, but not sure about career direction.Weakness that he is working on--verbal and writing skills.</p>

<p>Type of college wants- more diverse than his HS, not too large or conversely dinky (LACs OK), smaller class sizes, open-minded (maybe liberal leaning ), decent accomodations for room/board. Fair amount of activities available to get involved in. Likes to be academically challenged and to be with other intelligent kids who "get it", but is not a Type A driven personality. Most of his ability is a natural aptitude he is building on. </p>

<p>We know he could get into U of Md at College Park--it has a good reputation for math/sci, but living on campus (which he wants) makes us nervous due to the proximity of the college to crime ridden areas. It is not unknown for theft and muggings to occur in the area. I would really like him to enjoy the total experience instead of just academic challenge and to feel a sense of belonging.</p>

<p>Can someone point us toward some matches? Not too particular where, but east coast would make it easier to travel...</p>

2

<p>Johns Hopkins-connection with Goddard
U Rochester-excellent for physics
U Maryland-I did not think the area was bad at all, the campus seems safe, the surrounding areas seem mostly suburban...Did your S live in the Goddard frat house at UM this summer? Did he watch the shuttle launch on NASA TV? Did he go into DC for the 4th?
RPI
Carnegie Mellon
U Pittsburgh
Case Western
Dickinson
Georgetown
Franklin and Marshall
WPI
Boston U
Bucknell
Lafayette
Lehigh
Rutgers</p>

3

<p>The GPA and class rank are competitive though not super-outstanding, but the SAT scores are really low in that context. I think the previous poster may have been mroe than a bit overoptimistic in mentioning Georgetown, CM, and JH. Is the school's college counselor any help at all? He or she would perhaps be able to give you a sense of how previous graduates of your hs have done with similar credentials? I would look seriously at Rochester; it is a fine school and because it has such a low yield it might look more kindly on an applicant with a demonstrated work ethic and might be a good bet, more so if the SATs go up. Lehigh may not have the type of student body your S is looking for (that is, not necessarily predominantly reflective/thoughtful), though academically it mght suit him; same would go for Lafayette and Bucknell (again, knowing how he did with the next SAT attempt would help). </p>

<p>I don't think there is much point looking at Rutgers if your own state university is adequate. And one could hardly say New Brunswick is more appealing or necessarily safer than any UM's setting. (And keep in mind that even the most idyllic college setting is not immune from crime; my D attends an LAC in a lovely little town and even it has recently experienced a couple of robberies from presumed outsiders.) Realistically, to find matches you probably should look through the basic college guidebooks like PR and Fiske and see what the SAT ranges are for schools that appeal to your S in other ways (setting, academic offering, size). And until you have the second set of SAT scores, it will be hard to judge.</p>

4

<p>I wouldn't worry about College Park as long as your son has good sense. All college students, no matter where they are, tend to be easy pickings because they have things (bikes, computers, electronics) that are easily taken and sold, tend to be trusting, and suffer from young people's sense of invulnerability.</p>

5

<p>We changed schools from NVA to upper central MD, so that is where his class rank took a hit. IOW, B's at his old school would be A's here if they followed the same numerics system.</p>

<p>In his HS , he stands out like a sore thumb as being advanced. He tutors and even challenges (and frequently corrects) his teachers calculations. It is mostly that he has not sought a strong balance in the non-math sci courses to get high scores. Didn't care. I should also add that these scores are based on no additional study/prep for the SATs/APs beyond what they might study in class. (I bought the study books--he wouldn't crack them). I would, however, think the recent AP scores would indicate good ability to handle college courses as is the fact that he is top student in his college class.</p>

<p>This is why I find the emphasis on SAT scores so puzzling when other more advanced tests/people seem to evaluate him higher. His GC was disappointed in his June test scores, but "forgave" him since he had such outstanding scores on APs. He didn't even take the chem II class and still scored a 4. As a result, he was "allowed" to matriculate at the college by the principal who preferred him to take an AP class instead. I find it hard to know what to think. The people whose opinions he has sought so far--GC, advanced teachers at HS where he does independent study, his college prof and his NASA mentors, have all mentioned the top colleges as being good matches for his skills and understanding (graduates of Caltech and MIT, with kids at Harvey Mudd). His Dad has mutiple degrees from VATech ( a great school) and these mentors are telling him not to sell himself short (As if VATech was comparatively so-so) from the Great Schools. But, on CC, people look at the SAT stats and say he doesn't have a chance and he should downgrade those expectations. So, what to think?</p>

<p>As far as other students--unsure. A fair number he mentioned are going to Penn State at College Station. But--he says that many of the guys say they are going there and into an engineering program. He claims most of them are not too brilliant (he tutors, remember) and it is important to him to be with people who really understand the academics. So, his feeling about the quality of Penn State is a bit compromised at the moment, though I am sure this is a fine school! College Park is pretty large and impersonal on the down side--not sure of its rep outside of Maryland. Sites like studentsreview.com (insider attitudes) are pretty 1/2 and 1/2.</p>

<p>So, I <em>am</em> researching, but I also don't want to sell my kid short on the basis of impersonal stats either, if you know what I mean. Thanks for your replies!</p>

6

<p>What about VA Tech now that you mention it? Legacy status might be an advantage and setting is nice--beautiful part of VA as you must know. (I am sorry to seem negative about the SATs, but there are just so many kids aout there who have great grades and SATs to match, and I think it would take a very convincing essay or recs to balance out. In any case, there is nothing wrong wtih reaching for the top; the key is to have a balanced list in case the reaches don't work out, as so many discussions on CC hvae indicated.)</p>

7

<p>The ACT. Standby. Stand on his head. Whatever he has to do. Why is he putting all his eggs in the SAT basket when it is clearly in his case (in the opinion of everyone who knows him ) a malfunctioning test? (I don't know him. I'm relying on your post.) Bad G.C. for not suggesting the ACT. Some students do remarkably better on one test or the other. </p>

<p>Great AP grades are not going to make up for a 1320/1910, 3.8 at the schools your G.C. and others are suggesting. Mattmom is right, unfortunately. Explain it to the kid that the review books from the ACT or the Collegeboard themselves are the only trustworthy sample tests and they are considered as part of the entrance qualifications at a number of schools. While the concept of studying for the tests is anathema to many, familiarizing oneself with the format by taking sample tests and carefully reviewing right or wrong answers is just smart. Walking in unprepared and unknowing is not noble or courageous. </p>

<p>Other than that one has to start thinking about selective schools where testing by SAT or ACT is optional . Some forward thinking schools will accept any combo of AP's, SAT Subject tests, etc in lieu of SAT's and ACT's . There are many very good schools on that list that will put him with similarly minded kids. CalTech and Mudd ain't on that list. Good luck, think outside the box. There's a place for him.</p>

8

<p>Three: I don't think that the reactions here are based so much on his SATs being "low" as showing an imbalance. The 720 M is obviously not low, but the CR and W scores are, (comparatively), and none of the other more "advanced" tests you mention are in that area; they are all math and science, where he demonstrates admirable mastery. So I think that instead of thinking of the SAT as being less advanced, your S should find ways, like perhaps the APs he is presently taking, to show that he can achieve in those areas more than his SATs show.</p>

9

<p>V-tech is a little large, as is UMD. I thought you wanted small class sizes. You will find them mostly at LACs. Might want to look at them. A 1320 is not low at all, it is low for this board. Just to give you an idea, in 2005 only 3% of those tested scored at or above 750. Another 5% scored at or above 700. I forgot what you said his verbal score was, but 580 was the 75th percentile in 2005.</p>

10

<p>The point is not that the SATs are good by overall mational standards but that they are low for the schools mentioned by an earlier poster. Even the 720 is not high for someone with an avowed interest in math and the math-related sciences. that said, the advice given on the Parents Forum to the OP re looking for matches and safeties strikes me as very sound.</p>

11

<p>You are gettign good advice; agree with curmudgeon to try ACT; some kids do better on this test.</p>

<p>Here's another idea: look at the SAT optional schools. Without his SATs, he's a golden candidate on grades, AP's, & rank (DO have the GC explain the rank & the other school's numerics.)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fairtest.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.fairtest.org&lt;/a> lists schools that do not require SATs. Bowdoin is one of several very highly regarded LACs on this list.</p>

<p>Also, consider schools that are eager to attract math & science kids. There are artsy schools (like Bard, Wells, Wesleyan & others) that are havens for literature & humanities kids that actually want to build a more academically balanced student body.</p>

<p>These SATs are not deal killers at plenty of decent LACs (collegehelp's list is very good.) Add former women's colleges like Goucher, Skidmore, Wells, & Vassar which need to attract guys to keep their ratios balanced; also add some SAT-optional schools. Finally use your geography to advantage and consider schools out of your area. </p>

<p>Many of the hunanities-oriented LACs do have 3/2 engineering programs if that might appeal to your S.</p>