@MomOf2TeenGirls I’m going to try to send you a PM
OP,
you should add USC to your DD’s list. They have the very well regarded Thorton school of Music, an outstanding Liberal Arts program AND a Dental school. USC offers merit aid to 20 % of applicants.
https://music.usc.edu/joann-turovsky-receives-lifetime-achievement-award-from-american-harp-society/
In Order for your DD to be eligible for Merit $$ she needs to complete her application by Dec 1.
Dec 1 is ALSO the deadline for application to Thorton.
https://music.usc.edu/admission/
https://music.usc.edu/admission/audition
[ the above dates are for 2017 admission candidates, but they should be similar for 2018 applicants]
Applying to USC EARLY , in order to meet the merit Scholarship deadline , will NOT preclude her from applying elsewhere early.
https://academics.usc.edu/
Sent you a pm.
Sent you a pm a few minutes ago but forgot to say many school have harps for the students and you do not need to bring your own.
@MaineLonghorn - She’s likely going to pursue a doctorate in BME as she’s loved her summer research internships. Starting the process all over again to narrow down her college choices and to determine how to best keep playing music!!
I used to play a little harp but know very little about the collegiate environment for it. About all I do know is that an extremely talented harpist friend ended up at Jacobs (Indiana). She is a professional harpist today.
One school that may be worth exploring is University of Michigan. We know a few kids in the music school who are double majoring/degreeing. The impression we have is that this is a school that admires and is supportive of music students who are also academically ambitious – not always the case with music schools. My son has a friend there who fully expects to go to law school, another who is also in the school of engineering along with SMTD, and another who is pursuing some sort of BS along with a BM. And, obviously, the dental school at Michigan would be a coup.
At USC (Thornton) that another poster recommended, music merits are very small, but it’s possible to stack with an academic merit, which can be significantly more generous.
USC is very supportive of students who wish to double major/ minor in diverse areas.
They have an award - the Renaissance Scholar award- given to top students who graduate with degrees in different areas.
As another poster mentioned above, it IS difficult to fit STEM afternoon labs into a Music major schedule, but it can be done, albeit with a lot of effort.
@MomOf2TeenGirls I’m curious why is your D determined to graduate in 4 years? Why disn’t she choose to take the traditional 5 years? Is it for financial reasons? Seems to me if money isn’t an issue there’s no reason to try to get it all done in 4. Bard, where my son got his two degrees makes sure the entire five years are financially supported.
@college-bound-parent I wouldn’t worry about the money yet - always my advice for music performance students. You just don’t know what it will cost. I would recommend she look into double degree programs if she really wants to have all her prerequisites for dental school - although she could always just take the classes, and perhaps do summer school rather than music programs. Plenty of harp students out there - I’m sure there’s a way to transport a harp one way or the other. Folks get their basses to school. How did you compile your list? I can’t really make heads or tails of it. Although I can see if you’re looking for a more conservative or Christian environment such as Wheaton that Oberlin and Bard wouldn’t be a good fit. But Lawrence could be terrific and you might want to reconsider St Olaf. Vanderbilt. Indiana. Michigan. Northwestern. All basically Midwestern and not particularly liberal. Maybe CCM. Univ of Missouri at Kansas City. University of Kentucky.
Not sure why Princeton is on your list. It would be a real long shot and I’m not sure what the appeal is except to be able to say she’d applied. If you’re really aiming for an elite academic setting, you may want her to retake the ACT to raise her score - unless you feel her musical ability will make her stand out enough in the crowd of applicants.
I second what someone said about Rice, their tuition is relatively low, and they do offer pretty solid merit aid from what I have seen and heard from others who have had kids go there, so I would encourage looking into it, I don’t know about harp there, but it has an extremely high level orchestra program.
Pre dental is not a major per se, it is a pre professional program (used to be identical to pre med at the school I went to), and could be taken post getting a degree. With a BM program it may be tough and some BM programs don’t let you dual degree (Rice is one of those), I don’t know if they would let a BM student take the pre dental courses the way for example someone could major in history and take pre dental courses, you would have to ask the schools that specific question. It is possible to do a dual degree, though doing a BM and something else in 4 years is a challenge, the people I know of who did that did things like take classes over the summer to be able to do that.
As someone else said, you could go to an LAC or a university and still do music, the Ivy league schools for example have strong music programs and they will pay for the student to have lessons (another advantage of the ivies is they are pretty good with aid, even for people who other schools see as making ‘too much money’, they understand having other kids in college, elderly parents, and retirement looming). I don’t know if the D in this case has the academics to make it into an ivy level of school, but it could be an option.
I think the key thing here is the D has a variety of options, if she is someone who wants to do a dual degree she can do that, if her goal is to perhaps go to dental school she could try and take the requisites while doing a BM (if the school allows it) or post getting the BM, or do a dual degree where the other program included pre dental requirements…or do music at an LAC without getting a BM or a BA…
@musicprnt, yes, there are many paths and I guess that is a good thing. But can be a difficult thing as well 
Rice has a good harp program, I know the principle harpist for the Austin Symphony earned her MM in harp performance at Rice University’s Shepherd School of Music
@SpiritManager, the list is not final. We are still figuring things out, hence my post here in CC. Her list includes an unusual mix of schools I think because student’s interests are so varied and she’s not sure exactly which direction to go or what $ may be offered. They all had to first pass the filter of whether they offer merit aid and whether the harp technique is the same as what she’s been learning for the past 6ish years. I think we are at this point casting the net wide to see what merit aid is available and at what level of conservatory she would be accepted if she chooses the strictly conservatory route.
Nebraska and UNI are definitely affordable safeties with harp faculty she would probably be happy with, BM degree as an option, and liberal arts for pre-dental. (Nebraska also has a dental school). Easiest and least expensive.
However, she loves the water and a more urban feel…so that’s partly where Eckerd, Seattle Pacific, U of Miami, and Loyola Chicago come in. U of Miami also has Frost School of Music. Eckerd and U of Miami also have marine biology.
Cleveland Institute of Music was an easy choice to put in the mix with their harp program, and their joint program with Case Western for liberal arts classes is a plus.
Rice because of their reputation for both academics and music as well as the possibility of good merit aid.
Wheaton because she liked the school after a visit, likes close proximity to Chicago, they have a conservatory, felt comfortable with Christian setting.
And Princeton…not really sure. She loves Princeton. Harp program looks like a good fit and I’ve heard they are more generous with aid than other elite schools. They are a far reach most likely. As for re-taking the ACT, she’s done it 3 times.
@SpiritManager - I will PM you to avoid hijacking this thread.
I just wanted to explain that the post-baccaulareate programs I linked earlier are programs for after graduation from undergrad and will cover all the prerequisites for a dental degree.
I get nervous about kids who have several very different interests and are trying to cover them all in one undergrad experience. I would think about sequencing- a term often used for parental work arrangements. In other words, narrow the focus for undergrad with full knowledge that it doesn’t narrow the path after undergrad.
So that means a harp student can go to law school. A history major can grow as a harp player. Etc. A kid who really cannot give up both interests can double degree.
There is no crystal ball and she may lose interest in dentistry or some other direction as well, so it can be hard to make decisions based on future career (even conservatory students do go into other fields_.
I didn’t see the ACT scores but some of the reachiest schools seem to love musicians But Harvard and Yale have great aid for families making up to $150k and more.
Berea and Gordon are two Christian colleges I know of. I believe Berea is tuition- free and I happen to know that Gordon has excellent music. Lawrence and Ithaca have double degree programs too.
Tufts and Clark are other possibilities (sorry, I mentioned Tufts before!)
Thanks @compmom. I agree the path needs to narrow a little with so many options. And the undergrad degree is just a stepping stone. She will do a grad program at some point and will be able to go any number of directions. Maybe we need to try to stop stressing quite so much…it will all work out in the end somehow! Most of us don’t really travel a straight line from point A to point B…and ACT score is 32.
@college-bound-parent, Is your D specifically looking for christian colleges or just would feel comfortable in that environment and wouldn’t eliminate a college because of that? My S interacted with many students at Credo music festival, which is a a music festival that has a spiritual component, who were studying at Biola University in CA. I don’t personally know much about it but a quick look at their website shows it to be a christian college with a music conservatory. Looks like they have a harp professor who studied Salzedo. Might be worth a look.
My S got a dual degree in cello performance and math from UM. He was able to finish in 4 1/2 years by taking some spring term classes and taking a full load plus every semester. Over the course of his studies he found that he had to make a choice about which degree he was going to do full justice to, he felt that he could not reasonably do both to the same extent as a student who was only pursuing one or the other. He chose to fully immerse himself in his music degree and doesn’t feel that he in any way got a lesser experience in music or missed out on anything he wanted to pursue than if he had only gotten the music degree. He does feel that there was less depth to his math degree than if that would have been his only degree. He started to feel out of his depth in his math classes his senior year, noticed that other math majors had much more range and depth to their backgrounds where he felt he just managed to meet the minimum requirements. Not saying this to discourage you or your D, he does not regret pursuing both degrees just relaying the story if it may be helpful in sorting out options.
Thanks @cellomom2. To answer your question, no she’s not looking specifically for a Christian college. And thanks for your insight.
@college-bound-parent
“Maybe we need to try to stop stressing quite so much…it will all work out in the end somehow! Most of us don’t really travel a straight line from point A to point B.”
That is probably the wisest thing to keep in mind at all times, it really can help mitigate the worry and anxiety that comes along with any path, let alone the issues around music. Path are not linear, and in music there is a concept I see out there of people promoting a ‘golden path’, when there isn’t one. Some people take this too far IMO, they go either by people in past generations or by some idea that with pluck and luck anyone can end up for example in a good orchestra even if they picked up the violin in high school…but there are those who will tell you that if a student doesn’t do a BM degree at an “IT” program and then an MM degree and don’t do XYZ music festivals, they will not get anywhere, and that isn’t true either. It is especially hard when you have a kid who has many interests, who loves music but also loves academics, and wants to do it all…when that may not be possible. The thing I stress is that part of the process will be going down the wrong rabbit hole, making a ‘wrong’ move (or perhaps not the best one), and quite honestly what seems to be a wrong move may have turned out to be a good one. My S went to a school for the teacher, who did a lot for him but also may not have been (in my son’s eyes) the perfect teacher for him where he stood coming into undergraduate, and in some ways he didn’t really like the overall program, yet that program strengthened his love for music theory, they have a strong department and the head really liked him, and he got a lot out of that, had he gone to another school to study with a teacher who might have addressed more of the things my S wanted to, he wouldn’t have had that…and yet, despite feeling like his UG teacher had shortcomings, when he auditioned for grad schools he did really, really well and will be studying with a demanding and tough to get teacher, so something had to have gone right:).
One of the big mistakes IMO, even though I understand and respect people who hold this position, is to try and look at a music program on the basis of ‘yield’, for example a program that can theoretically turn out a student who can get into high level orchestras or become a soloist or whatever. There is some truth to that idea in one sense, for example some music programs like Rice and Indiana are known for their focus on orchestra and ensemble playing (I use them as examples, not saying they are the only places or even that they are the ‘top ones’ or whatnot), but the problem with that is assuming that what they give will drive a particular student to let’s say get into a top orchestra out of school…and that assumes they have a magic formula, when it could be they attract students who love to do orchestra and ensembles and that gives them an edge…and it could be for agiven student, it would do the opposite. In the end you look at all the factors, after weeding out schools because the teachers weren’t attractive, the location was too cold/hot/urban/rural, or are financially undoable, it comes down to choosing a path and taking it where it goes. All I can tell you is from what I have heard from some pretty successful people is that they had their moments of doubt, wondered if they did the right thing, regretted mistakes, too:). One of the big things is not to get caught up in the path but rather of being mindful where the path(s) are taking you, the kids I see fail often have this obsession with the ‘right’ path rather than saying “am the path I am on working”, or lose sight of what is happening along the way in pursuit of the ‘final goal’ and not see what could be that might even be better:). I remember a talk David Kim, the concertmaster of the Philadelphia Orchestra, talking about how his whole path was about being a soloist, did well in a big international competition, was soloing with various midlevel and lower orchestras, and one day realized when playing with some small orchestra that he enjoyed the working with the orchestra musicians more than being a soloist, and right when he came to that realization he was asked to audition for the Philadelphia CM position. He said if he had kept his focus on being a soloist, seeing that as the final goal, he likely may never have had the opportunity he got, and likely would eventually would have ended up giving up in frustration but he recognized his heart and went that way…
@musicprnt, thanks for your reply. Wow… you should be an academic advisor or something… (Maybe you are!!) Very helpful insight. I think there seems to be so much pressure to do all this exactly right…, whatever “right” may be…and the illogical fear that the music major will be living in his/her parent’s basement til he/she is 30 unless the student studies at one of only a handful of places.
@college-bound-parent :
I would make a lousy academic advisor, I would tell them to study something like becoming an electrician or plumber lol… In terms of right, my view has changed over the years, as I have seen what my S and his friends and from people on CC I have gotten to know have said. While there is such a thing as being realistic (like a kid taking up the violin at 14 wanting to be a big time soloist…ain’t gonna happen), there is no right path with music because it is probably one of the least objective things you can go into, like any art. Wanna be a doctor? Go to college, get good grades, take the pre med curricula, do well on the MCAT, and you will get into med school, once in med school work hard, find a field you want to do, and you will likely get into a post grad program (whatever they call it these days),and from there you can find a job, it isn’t like that with music, because there is just so much that is subjective, subject to whim, to chance even…and there isn’t really a defined path, as this thread and others have talked about, there are many threads with all of this in them.
I would argue that there are certain things I consider to be absolutes, things like finding the best teacher you can, exposing the kid to performance opportunities as much as possible, finding teachers and people who know what music instruction and the ‘real’ world of music, and encouraging the kid to go beyond the tried and true path of ‘practice, practice, practice’ on their instrument to actually experience music as a whole, go to performances, listen to music (and a wide range). There are things I consider ‘edges’ that help but aren’t critical, things like summer music programs, sample lessons, high level pre college programs, youth orchestras, and even ‘tippy top’ music programs at the college/conservatory level, can offer advantages, some big, but if you don’t do them it isn’t ‘forget about it’.
The biggest lesson to learn I think is that another person’s path is not yours/your kids, that this is an individualistic beast, the ‘great teacher’ that violin student you know loves might be a dud for your kid, the school that is supposedly the golden ticket may be a disaster for someone else, one person’s brutal tyrant of a teacher is someone else’s dream. In the end you kind of have to own it, make decisions based on your own situation, and trust that if not some mystical “best path”, it is 'good enough":).