Need more schools

<p>I feel like we've already narrowed our list of architecture schools for my jr son too much and need to broaden our search. I'm thinking he should apply to about 3 Barch schools (and those now are: Carnegie Mellon, Cornell and University of Miami (his Dad is an alumn of U of Ms music school and that's how this made the list and right now it seems to be a good back up to his #1 goal, Cornell). But the only B of architecture major school we have right now is Yale. The planned college trip right now is to go from home in Nashville to Pittsburgh (CMU) then Ithaca (Cornell) then to the Northeast definitely for Yale. Should we add: Brown, Princeton and U of Penn to this list for B of architecture major schools?
Any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance.</p>

<p>if it's on the way it wouldn't hurt to visit those other B schools. cornell is still currently on winter break so it's very empty now. i would recommend visiting cornell after january 22nd because being able to talk to students and the faculty as well as looking at student works would be a much more informative experience. best of luck with the trip!</p>

<p>Thanks. Yeah, we'll definitely visit when school is in -- actually not till next fall (of his senior year) -- had planned to go during spring break, but -- duh -- all the colleges were going to be out, too. I always appreciate your posts. Is Cornell in good shape now, didn't you lose your dean? Would you mind telling me what other schools you had considered? Thanks again.</p>

<p>It is very hard to recommend schools without knowing your child's academic profile and his college criteria. I take he is a very good student given the schools you mentioned. Still, the odds at those schools are very difficult even for those who have the requisite qualifications and so his list is very top heavy right now and needs more balance. Also, I don't know if he is interested in either a BA or a BArch but is sounds like maybe both. </p>

<p>For a BArch.....what about seeing Penn State when in PA and also Syracuse when in western NY. These would balance the other BArchs on the list. </p>

<p>For the BA....yes, go see Brown, Princeton, Yale and Penn. My own child wanted a BA and applied to those four. I also think you should add some that are not as difficult odds but still strong schools that offer a BA or BS in Architecture......what about Conn College (could see when visiting Yale), Lehigh, Tufts (an hour from Brown), UVA? </p>

<p>Also, at Brown, look into the new dual degree program with RISD.</p>

<p>BArch: VT, RPI
BA/BS: U of Mich, WashU, Maryland, UVA</p>

<p>personally, skip penn, princeton, and brown. you'd do better at any other 4 year program. the strongest ug arch program in the ivies is cornell.</p>

<p>Well, Penn, Princeton and Brown are not comparable to Cornell because Cornell is a BArch program and the others are not. Yale is not either. But the OP seemed to want some BA programs as well as BArch and so for a BA, I do think these schools are worth looking at. </p>

<p>UMich and WashU are very good options as well but I thought she was making an East Coast trip this time. I think UMich would be a good one to balance the list of reachy schools though.</p>

<p>well- I would say that it is hard to gage a BA/BS school just because most of the schools you would want to look at are going to devote much much more to their March 1 programs. That said, one would have to think that schools like Princeton or Yale, which have very good Masters programs are also going to have at least reasonably good BA/BS arch programs. if you were going to apply to more Barch schools I would add Rice and possibly my own school Cooper Union to the list.</p>

<p>I'm new to this, so I don't know how to properly do all the Q & A cutting and pasting stuff, but,</p>

<p>Soozievt, this sentence:</p>

<p>Still, the odds at those schools are very difficult even for those who have the requisite qualifications and so his list is very top heavy right now and needs more balance. </p>

<p>Is exactly what I needed to know. Thank you. Yes, Syracuse had been on the list at one point as well as Tufts (but -- I guess everyone always knows someone -- my brother went there and didn't like it, so it came off). It's hard, as you probably have experienced, when you have a great kid who wants to do great things and you don't, or he doesn't, have the image of himself saying he's going to Syracuse, but rather Cornell. But, I know I have to get over that. But, should kids really apply to schools they don't think they'd feel pride in going to? Thanks so much for your input.</p>

<p>laurstar07, thanks. I have thought we should maybe add U Mich back in (just so big). UVA I knocked off because I want him to get out of the south or near the south. Wash U, interesting because I thought they had a B arch, but now believe it's just a major. Also, Wash U is like the neighborhood school for kids from Nashville - sooo popular that it had no spark for him.</p>

<p>And, yes, he is thinking a B arch right now, but when it comes time for senior year and visiting, I think we will visit some of both (Barch and arch major schools) to see firsthand the pros and cons.</p>

<p>I appreciate all the feedback.</p>

<p>Tzar: Yes, aware of cooper union, my mom is a painter and went there, so I think of it as an art school, although, obviously great architecture. I've read some on this forum about admittance being based mostly on a home test -- briefly, can you tell me the deal with this? Also, this sounds hilarious, but being Vanderbilt faculty, vandy pays 70 percent of wherever he goes up to vandy's price. so what's the point of going to school for free!! Ha. Every mom loves to take advantage of a deal, I guess!
Okay, I've embarassed my poor kid who says I'm obsessed. Better stop.
Thanks.</p>

<p>apr.....I don't know your son's qualifications but I will assume they are very high given the schools you are discussing. So, let's say he has top stats. Your son REALLY needs to know that even if he has top stats, that the fact is at the most selective schools in the land, they are STILL a reach....not because his stats make them a reach....they don't (assuming he is in the right ballpark for the top schools) but their very low admit rates make them a reach for anybody. </p>

<p>I understand he has high expectations and wants a very selective school, but he also must be realistic and build a BALANCED list of odds...reach, match, safety. This is what I do for my job actually. But that aside, my own child was a top candidate for college admissions four years ago and while I am her mom and of course "unbiased" (LOL), suffice it to say she had the "goods" for any school in the country....BUT...she knew the difficult odds and she explored reach, match, and safeties and tried to find schools that met her criteria at different degrees of selectivity. She didn't have to go that low in terms of selectivity but she certainly could not have a list of all very low odd schools. Her safeties were reaches for some kids and still very good and challenging schools. But she certainly was willing and open to find schools of a varying range of selectivity and to find ones she truly liked enough to attend. She was not caught up in prestige. She did want a very challenging school as she thrives in such an atmosphere. But she also was realistic and knew that when a school accepts 15% of applicants, for example, it must turn away some who are just as qualified as that 15%. Top schools still turn away students with top SAT scores, 4.0 GPAs and valedictorians, for example. Your son needs to really really understand this. My D definitely did (and does again now with her graduate school admissions process). Your son really needs matches and safeties. By the way, I went to Tufts and loved it. My D loved it very much as well. </p>

<p>I don't wish to share my D's stats here but they were excellent as were her achievements outside the classroom. If you take my word on that, I will share her outcome (she only wanted a BA, not a BArch......so she cut out Cornell and CMU which she had on a very early list before deciding against a BArch.....she chose a BA and MArch path and is now an applicant to MArch programs) and I hope her outcome gives you some idea that you can't count on getting into schools with very low admit rates, no matter how stellar your profile is. That is the reality of the situation. I also will share this to show you how she had a balanced list of reaches, matches, safeties in relation to herself, but all were good schools that she could have attended. I suggest your son look real hard for a few schools a notch down to balance out his list of reaches (reaches due to the low admit rates). </p>

<p>She applied to and had these results in 2004:
Yale EA: deferred, then denied
Princeton: waitlisted
University of Pennsylvania: accepted
Brown: accepted....now a senior
Tufts: accepted
Smith: accepted
Conn College: accepted
Lehigh: accepted</p>

<p>(my D only wanted the East Coast....but I think your son could look at WashU or UMich or Rice)</p>

<p>If you visit Brown this spring, I would be happy to put you in touch with my D as she is very willing to help prospective students. She has been a tour guide at Brown. She is an advisor to freshmen at Brown and she is also a departmental group leader for the Architectural Studies major at Brown, as well as has been a TA in arch at Brown, and taken courses at RISD. She would be a good person to meet up with on a visit.</p>

<p>apr, my son recently completed his BA in art/art history at Williams. He is working for an architecture firm now with the intention of eventually getting an MArch. Like Soozie's daughter, he decided early on to get a liberal arts education rather than going directly into a BArch program.</p>

<p>I think the first decision that your son needs to make is whether he's going to take the BA/BS route or the BArch route. Both are good choices, but very different.</p>

<p>If he's still undecided then he'll need to make two completely separate lists. No matter what his qualifications -- statistics, talent, etc -- his lists should include less selective schools and especially ONE safety. </p>

<p>There are many good BArch programs, both at medium sized privates and at large publics. Along with CMU, Cornell and Miami, he might consider UMich, Syracuse, Cincinnati. Northeastern would be an excellent less selective.</p>

<p>For the BA route his choices are much, much wider and should not necessarily be restricted to schools that have architectural studies programs. MArch programs accept students from all sorts of disciplines. A major in studio art, art history or even something totally unrelated like biology or English, will still get you into a MArch program if you have the other prerequisites. </p>

<p>The beauty of a liberal arts education is the ability to experiment and sample a diverse palate of disciplines. In building his BA/BS list I would take an exactly opposite approach to how he views his BArch list. Don't focus on the strength of the program. Instead focus on the ambience, environment and teaching style, in other words, the *personality *of the school.</p>

<p>There are just so many excellent liberal arts colleges in the Northeast! Let us know his "wish list": size, urban/suburban/rural, sporty/nerdy and so forth and we'll come up with more suggestions than you'll know what to do with. :)</p>

<p>The principle partner of the firm my son works for has a BA from Yale, a law degree from Harvard and an MArch from MIT. So it's not entirely unusual for architects to take a meandering route to their final destination.</p>

<p>I agree with all that momrath wrote. I also agree that in the case of a BA path, the strength of the program is a much less important criteria in selecting the college. It wasn't that big of a deal for my daughter how strong the BA major program was but more picking the entire school (as long as it had some arch). When picking a professional degree program like a BArch, THEN choosing the program is more important. So, for a BA, the school need not be strong in arch. Many undergraduate paths can lead to MArch schools.</p>

<p>apr, just curious about the statement....</p>

<p>"because I want him to get out of the south or near the south" </p>

<p>Has HE the same feelings? While many folks in the architecture major forum suggest numerous super schools in the northeast, there are some very good architecture programs in the south, VT (as Laurstar suggested), NCState, Georgia Tech, Auburn......</p>

<p>apr: even though the school is "big" the architecture class is really small, and you'll find that everywhere. at penn state, with 40000 ug, there are only 75 architects. thats why i didnt care whether the school i was applying to was big or small, becuase either way, i would have no more than 75 people in my class</p>

<p>and if you are deciding between the 4 or 5 year program, i would go with a 5. even with the 4+2 route, the students in the 5 year program end up having more studio time, which is where you develop skills that are looked for at firms. the 5 year program also saves you time in your life, since you dont have to go for a masters directly after school for 2 or 3 years. and even if your son decides to go for that MArch II, its only 18 months or something. when i was talking to architects i knew, they preferred the 5 year programs because they said that those students end up being stronger in the end. plus, it makes you more competitive. they said that they would rather hire a BArch graduate than a BA/BS graduate because of the stress in design and studio early on (now people dont chew me out, this is what architects who i have talked to said)</p>

<p>Tulane as well....(is it obvious I am a Southerner? :)</p>

<p>haha, KandKsmom! :) Tulane, being the most geographically diverse school, would also be a good option. It has both undergraduate and graduate MArch programs.</p>

<p>I have grown up on the Gulf Coast my whole life, and it's name is very reputable in the area and especially in the Northeast, which is where most of its applicants come from. I guess sometimes it's hard to rid yourself of that Southern blood, haha</p>

<p>Well, thanks to all. So, after considering all your input, talking to my son and doing a little more research, here is where we are:
1. He knows he wants a Barch. I think he knows this because he is in a pre-engineering program at a math/science magnet and has taken architecture classes. Therefore, I feel fine about this decision. (Also, at his age, I KNEW I wanted to be a journalist so went to Northwestern journalism school for this, his Dad KNEW he wanted to be a recording engineer and went to U of Miami music school for that. So, I trust that he knows . . . and as long as he's getting a valuable education, an undergraduate degree in one area is not a life-long committment -- suffice it to say, I went to grad school at Vanderbilt and am a nurse practitioner now). I have also read on this forum that architecture encompasses a fairly broad range of subjects he likes, so it doesn't seem that narrow.<br>
2. I have the utmost respect for small liberal arts colleges -- lots of Oberlin grads in the fam -- but, maybe you can tell from his HS of choice, that's not for him.
3. He also would like an overall academically good school for the type of kids they attract.
4. He wants to be able to have a somewhat classic college social experience, meaning that he's a soccer goalie and will want to play intramural sports, is a guitar player, will want to form a band, etc.
5. The South . . . now, I grew up at Duke (Durham, NC), so this is coming from a southerner of sorts. But, to be frank, my son is a nonpracticing jew growing up in the bible belt and wants to see something different. Nothing against the South, we live in Nashville, TN by choice and love lots of things about it. That said, we will take second looks at the schools you've mentioned. Thanks.<br>
3. Well, knowing he's determined a Barch is the way to go, we were able to knock a lot of those Ivy League reaches off the list. How does this look for starters:
Cornell
Carnegie Mellon
Univ of Miami
Penn State
Syracuse</p>

<p>I thought we would go to U of Miami in March and then save the others for next Fall (of Sr. year). But do you suggest going sooner? He wasn't planning to finalize his portfolio until the summer when he has more drawing time and he'll need this for interviews.
THANKS ALL.</p>

<p>what about rpi</p>

<p>I've been reading through these posts, and am unsure about the BA/MArch vs. BArch track? what is the difference, could I major in something else besides arch (or arch studies) then major in architecture at a grad school? that's what i've come to understand, but correct me if i'm wrong.</p>

<p>i'm from california, so i'm not reallly familiar with the east coast schools, is this something that is more prevalent at these schools because of the low volume of in-state schools that offer arch programs?</p>

<p>if this is the case, that is another really good option for me to consider, because i have limited down to only a few west coast schools like cal poly, arizona state, u of oregon and then kansas state which i hear has a good program...</p>

<p>
[quote]
could I major in something else besides arch (or arch studies) then major in architecture at a grad school? that's what i've come to understand, but correct me if i'm wrong.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Jack, Yes, many, many architects take this route: An undergraduate BA or BS in a related or unrelated discipline, followed by an MArch. The downside of this approach is that it takes a lot longer (and subsequently costs a lot more) than a bachelors of architecture. Depending on your qualifications coming into the MArch program it can add 3.5 years to your education. Some people feel that architects with the BA/BS + MArch are at a disadvantage because they would have taken fewer design courses than those with a BArch. Personally, I find this argument less compelling.</p>

<p>The advantage of the MArch is that you don't have to make up your mind at 17-18 years old to live, eat and drink architecture. Some kids are ready to do this, some are not. The decision is really personal.</p>

<p>I don't think the BA/BS + MArch is any more prevalent on the east coast than the west. As I said a lot of successful and talented architects have chosen this path.</p>