<p>ADad breaks it down perfectly.</p>
<p>Brown.</p>
<p>I work with Chinese students all the time, and few do as well in highlighting the important intangibles. Everything you say indicated that your happiness will be found at Brown. </p>
<p>Go with your instincts.</p>
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<p>As someone with a partially Chinese background, my answer is this: even if you can’t afford it, you’ll find a way. I can’t speak for Connie of course, her family could be millionaires for all I know, but what I gather from my Chinese family members is that a college education, especially an education at a super-elite American college, is literally priceless. If the cost per year is their family income, they’ll live on savings. If it’s more, they’ll either spend down savings or borrow from extended family. You have to understand how difficult it is for a Chinese student to get into a top American university. Not only are the quotas for international students very small, the competing population of elite students vying for those few spots in China is gigantic. Students who want to have a chance will pour tons of time and resources into making themselves a viable candidate. The ones who get in are the very best of the very best. If they make it, going is often considered a given. </p>
<p>Of course I’m painting a bit of an exaggerated picture here. A significant portion of international students come from very wealthy families for whom the cost is not a problem, and some may turn down the opportunity to go to an Ivy league college. But both the difficulty and the judged worth of getting into an Ivy league are much higher there than here, I think. And again this is general, and I’m not speaking for Connie.</p>
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<p>More easily than you’d think. My relatives in Shanghai are cash-richer than we are (and we are far from poor)–a couple of years back they purchased a nice apartment outright, paid completely upfront. We could never do that.</p>
<p>China is not where it was twenty years ago. It is not at all inconceivable to me that a Chinese family could come up with $200k, especially for an Ivy League education.</p>
<p>to starbright: sinflower’s description is pretty accurate. It’s more of a tradition in China, especially to people who have secured themselves a better life through higher education or to those whose only hope of self or family advancement is to get into a good college. My parents and many of their contemporaries, with what the Americans call “protestant work ethics”, fall into the first category.</p>
<p>Is it true that regular Columbia students don’t go out to explore the city very often? If so, is it because that they’re perfectly happy socializing on campus, or that they’re too occupied with homework and have no time?
One of the main attraction of Columbia, to me, is no doubt New York, since I’m really into arts, especially cinema, theater and writing, and would love to get into the field a little bit.</p>
<p>To goodday and mom55,
Thanks for sharing your personal insights!
I don’t describe myself as “tough”, but having lived in a metropolis for my whole life and struggled through traditional Chinese high school, I’m not unfamiliar with crowds, stress, traffic jam, long lines or bums. It’s the glory of the city and the grandeur of the college that make me feel kind of insecure, but I guess it’s not uncommon.
Luckily, the Columbia alums in Beijing are hosting a dinner party tomorrow, and hopefully I’ll be able to make a decision after that.</p>
<p>Challenge yourself. The real world will not be as considering of your insecurities as college.</p>
<p>Hi, I am not the parent of a Columbia student but a lot of my son’s friends are from Columbia College. And my son himself spent a summer in Columbia housing. While his friends were in college, most of them did not live like hermits but did visit the city. It is impossible to live in the city and ignore it. I am sure a lot of kids have demanding extracurriculars and spend a lot of time on them. </p>
<p>The city is daunting at first, but once you’ve lived there a few months, this is a city that is impossible to ignore.</p>
<p>I also know a kid who belonged to an adult jazz ensemble while at Columbia and maintained a great GPA and did everything else that one is supposed to do in college.</p>
<p>Columbia/Barnard have such a good orientation program that within ten days a student can’t tell the difference between the city and the campus.</p>
<p>I’m exaggerating and kidding, but only a little.</p>
<p>They understand that kids are coming from Bejing, rural Georgia, Alaska, and yes, even Brooklyn, and few know much about how to get around in NYC.</p>
<p>The orientation program was so extensive I couldn’t imagine who they could afford to do it because it was also free. Included a mock cocktail party at the Museum of Modern Art, a swing dance party on the Intrepid, subsidized walks through various neighborhoods chose by the orientee, etc.</p>
<p>The offerings change every year.</p>
<p>The kids go on groups, get maps, get subway maps, and by the end of the ten days NY feels homey to every one of them.</p>
<p>That said, in my experience, few kids leave campus during the week. On a given weekend I could say that my D went into the city about half the weekends (and not always Sat night – sometimes she went downtown to see her friend at NYU, sometimes did research at the huge NY public library) and half the weekends never left Morningside Heights. She <em>did</em> go to frat parties which surprised her (not a frat party kind of girl or so she thought) and some nights she just sat in her suite with her suite mates cozily watching DVD’s of favorite TV shows, baking peach cobbler (roomie from GA) and doing work in between.</p>
<p>It was a very nice mix of campus, Morningside Heights, city and she did feel like she had the full college experience.</p>
<p>She spent a summer at Brown (not the full treatment to be sure) and didn’t have the same positive experience.</p>
<p>Her experience has no bearing here; I realize that. Everyone is different and looking for different things, and Brown is a lovely school in its own right.</p>
<p>However, I did want to give a picture of how easy it is for Barnard/Columbia students to become acclimated to the world in NYC.</p>
<p>And as for leaving? Why leave? Everyone eventually comes to you. Hillary gave a press conference right outside my D’s classroom, Obama and McCain debated, Akmadinijad (please forgive horrible spelling) spoke bringing the whole press corps with him) a bad TV show, Bedford was filled using Barnard’s campus, Law and Order films regularly.</p>
<p>D felt like she was at the center of the world. Now OP might want a more idyllic and sequestered environment. My S chose Williams, far more so than Brown, so I am not prejudging the decision.</p>
<p>However, I don’t think there is anything to be afraid of in doing undergraduate work at Columbia. And Columbia College has only 4,000 undergrads, not bigger than Brown’s class I don’t think.</p>
<p>At first glance, of course the answer is “Go to Brown!” You will be challenged, pushed, and inspired at both universities, for sure. So why not pick the place where you will be “genuinely happy,” too? Genuine happiness pushes us along to become great as much as stress, long lines, and traffic jams do - it is the fuel for passion.</p>
<p>But of course you have to ask yourself if you really WOULD be “genuinely more happy” at Brown, or if this is simply incorrect and you would be genuinely happy at either. </p>
<p>In light of that, I think it’s impossible for anyone to help you make this decision. You’ll have to do a bit of introspection on that one ;).</p>
<p>I can’t believe so many of you are ragging on NYC as a “tough city” with difficult living conditions – the OP is from Beijing! The Big Apple might seem like a small town compared to Beijing. Both schools are great, but NY is NY, c’mon. Don’t fear the Core - come to the West and dive in - you will never regret it. there will ot be any culture shock, there are plenty of Chinese at Columbia and around NYC (Second largest chinatown in North America). I vote Columbia (do I get a vote?).</p>
<p>Haha glido, sure you do.
Beijing is my hometown. I can’t compare it to any other cities in the world, and I’m proud of the fact that it’s the main hub of cultures in China.
I love NYC for how crazy and bizarre it can be, though it seems like Columbia students don’t venture into the city that much?</p>
<p>To umcp11: I spent almost every waking hour of April trying to figure out my personality and preferred lifestyle. But my only conclusion was that I couldn’t and many shouldn’t draw a conclusion at the age of 18, before I understand what’s going on out there and learn my true passions. So since I wouldn’t go wrong with either school, I guess I’d just pick one, stick to it and try to see where it leads.</p>
<p>Good luck–you’ve got great options!
I think its all about setting, because either school will give you a top-notch education. There is quite a difference between NY & Providence. Try looking a photos of each campus, look at maps, etc. and try to picture yourself living there. I’m sure housing is quite different as well. What kind of housing does Columbia have for freshmen?</p>
<p>The main complaint I’ve heard about Columbia is that students venture in the city so much that there’s less going on on campus than other similar colleges. I was a grad student at Columbia and our professors liked to use the city as a classroom - I would guess that there are similar things going on at the undergrad level.</p>
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<p>Spoken by someone who has never suffered from depression…it isn’t a character flaw. </p>
<p>OP, I would go to Brown. I think you will benefit from the intellectual atmosphere and the increased intimacy. Having a smaller Chinese community in the area is not a detriment. I’ve seen too many exchange students cling to people from their own country or culture, or even to other exchange students, to the detriment of their experience.</p>
<p>If the idea of Brown makes you happy and sake, by all means go.</p>
<p>But as a person VERY familiar with the Columbia environment, I don’t think you’d feel overwhelmed. It is not a cut throat or impersonal place. As for venturing further into the city, it varies largely but student. Some do often, some stay cozy on campus. Morningside Heights is a mini-city, nothing like downtown, but it still has enough to engage you.</p>
<p>I would say that my D has very low level depression and she did better at Barnard/Columbia than at Brown because there were more distractions and choices, which made the environment more pleasant for her.</p>
<p>My S chose against the urban environment (though Providence does have its urban elements) and was happy, too.</p>
<p>I think there is nothing wrong with going to Brown, and people have given very good reasons to do so.</p>
<p>I am just reiterating the point that there is nothing to be afraid of at Columbia, and if that is truly your heart’s desire you can do and feel comfortable.</p>
<p>All that said, I don’t think you can make a bad choice.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Connie: by the way Columbia is in the City - the Upper West Side is a vibrant and beautiful part of NYC. I don’t want you to get the idea that Columbia university is on the edge of NYC. There are many great part of the city - the village, midtown, Upper Eastide, the Bronx, Brooklyn Heights, Queens, right next dooe to Morningside heights is Harlem (don’t get all freaked out by what hollywood says about Harlem - there is a lot of history and beauty there -, etc. - but don’t get the idea that Columbia is not part of the city. The Upper West Side is where John Lennon, Madonna, Kevin Bacon and Christopher Reeves made their home - not because it is just full of rich people, but because it has a great NYC flavor to it. So, “venturing into the city” can mean walking up or down the street (Broadway).</p>