Need parents' advice! [Decision between Brown and Columbia]

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm an international student from Beijing, China, interested in literature, languages, cinema, anthropology, philosophy, writing, art history, etc. What I look for the most from college, i guess, are the possibilities and freedom to study. I have no intention to get down to the job market very soon (very likely that I'll go to grad school), nor do I desire to pursue a specific academic/career path. Not very aggressive or ambitious, I do feed on challenges and fresh ideas, and search for intellectual growth and artistic exploration. My problem is that I'm not committed enough, have no strict, set goals, constantly swinging. </p>

<p>The schools I'm considering attending are Columbia and Brown. It was heartbreaking to rule out Amherst, but I decided that its location is less than ideal. (The artistic vibe at Vassar and Wesleyan also attracts me very much, and the oh-so-beautiful Middlebury!) I didn't get any FA from either school, but I'll try to reapply due to family financial changes next year. Not sure if it's possible for international students.</p>

<p>COLUMBIA
It's simply too hard to say no to the package of a great school and a great city. Though being more intense and competitive, it will certainly be very rewarding, realistically, and provide me with better connections to both academic and the job market. I'm not crazy about the idea of a Core, but I feel that it would be a positive challenge, especially to a humanities oriented student without solid basis of western knowledge. New York is indeed one of the most inspiring cities worldwide, which makes it daunting to a not very extroverted foreigner, too.
Simply put, I feel that Columbia would be more of a trial, a place tough to get by and excel, but more likely to grant me a streetwise success, in whatever senses. </p>

<p>BROWN
I feel that I'll be genuinely happier during my four years at Brown, given its Open Curriculum, and merits of close professor-student relation and tight-knit community that are more often related to LACs. In fact, I've taken a summer session at Brown and found it quite rewarding. I know that I'll be intellectually challenged at Brown no less than Columbia, but its more laid-back atmosphere and more hand-holding would make all these cultural shocks and adjustments easier. I like the fact that I won't be under too much control.
In a word, I'm pretty sure that I'll enjoy my time at Brown, as I've been told a million times. But I also heard that Brown is not such an intellectual powerhouse as Columbia, and apparently, Providence is no NYC.</p>

<p>Another issue worth mentioning is that I've developed depression in my teenage years, and have been on medication ever since. Now, as I'm willing to challenge myself a good bit, I don't want to be stressed out to have another mental breakdown or anything of that sort. </p>

<p>This decision is one of the most important so far in my life, and considering that I'm going abroad into a totally different culture and way of living, I'd love to hear from parents about life at and, more importantly, after college, since I really don't know anything about that.
All replies are greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>waiting for responses…</p>

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<p>They are both good schools. Reading between the lines of your post … go for Brown. Save Columbia for grad school.</p>

<p>PS. your original post was in the middle of the night here in the Columbia/Brown time zone. I am sure you will get more responses when everyone wakes up!</p>

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<p>From your post, I’m reading Brown also.</p>

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<p>You’ve been to Brown, you like the academics, the open curriculum. Columbia is very intense by comparison and a lot of the student entertainment involves going into expensive New York city, rather on the campus; as you describe yourself, Brown is a much better choice for you. You will find it equally challenge but less stressful.</p>

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<p>Both are great schools. Last fall, we sent our 17 year-old son, from a suburb thousands of miles away, to Columbia. He has not experienced aggression and competitiveness from his classmates. He very rarely “goes into” the city to spend money, as he finds virtually all of his entertainment and social interaction on campus. When he started at Columbia, he was most interested in physics. (Last summer he was reading a book on string theory.) Due in large part to the Core, he is now interested in philosophy and economics. In a word, he is ecstatic at Columbia.</p>

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<p>You are lucky to have both choices! I love Columbia!!! NYC can be a stressful city. I am looking forward to seeing Brown in June.</p>

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<p>There is a sizable Chinese speaking population at Columbia. Columbia is also an oasis in the city. Morningside Heights is not midtown – it’s more like a little college town with very inexpensive noodle shops and sushi shops.</p>

<p>If I were you I would choose Columbia.</p>

<p>D went to Barnard and half her classes were at Columbia and she did not find the atmosphere “intense” at all.</p>

<p>Museums are free to Columbia students, and she went once a week for her major off-campus entertainment.</p>

<p>There are free tickets and all sorts of things that make it financially feasible to experience the city.</p>

<p>Brown is a wonderful institution, too, so I am not saying you wouldn’t have wonderful four years there, but in my opinion Columbia has more to offer you.</p>

<p>Take it as just one person’s opinion.</p>

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<p>I vote with the Brown people. You love the freedom to explore, and that’s what Brown is famous for. You want coddling and hand-holding; I’d imagine that would be much better at Brown. (Caring profs was the main factor in my son’s final choice.) Brown may not be “such an intellectual powerhouse as Columbia” (I don’t know), but it’s certainly good enough!! Brown is only 3 - 4 hours by car from NYC; I imagine people go there occasionally.</p>

<p>You might also want to check with the financial aid offices of both and see if either would be able to help you next year - that could force a decision.</p>

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<p>Experiences evidently vary, my D2 did not find Morningside heights so highly similar to a collegetown, probably because the comparatively small size/activities of the campuses vs. draw of the city did not keep students as focused on the campus as would be the case in an actual collegetown. People diffused into the city, to a much greater extent than is the case in an actual collegetown. And she did not find so high a degree of 'free tickets and all sorts of things that make it financially feasible to experience the city". Actually, she found her ability to experience the best parts of the city was severely constrained by the cost of everything, that was one of her biggest complaints. Yes there are exceptions, and OP might be one, but most people do not want to go to museums once a week, once they’ve gone a couple times.</p>

<p>From what I can tell Brown might be a little warmer and less stressful, socially and academically, hence might provide a better environment to stay happy in. That might be quite important for you.</p>

<p>On the other hand if you really want to be thoroughly exposed to the classics of Western civilzation in that particular fashion, Brown does not have The Core. And, for an international student who may never get a chance to experience NYC under more optimal circumstances (ie when you actually can better afford it), this may be the best shot you’ll have to do that. And it obviously has a a big international presence, maybe that might provide a valuable social network which could be important.</p>

<p>If it were me I’d pick Brown. More warmth and lower stress might be more important than spending every week in a museum for free, for someone in your situation IMO. If you want some NYC fix try to get a summer internship there.</p>

<p>Others of course, may differ, as might you.</p>

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<p>I heard many times that students without specific focus may flounder and get somewhat lost at Brown. Open curriculum has its advantages, but it also can be problematic if you truly don’t know what you want.
I think the core at Columbia can give you some time to settle down and figure out things, while making tangible progress in your studies.</p>

<p>That said, if you feel that NYC makes you nervous, and you feel at home at Brown, go to Brown.</p>

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<p>Columbia all the way. I love NYC, there is no comparison at all.</p>

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<p>OP - I could make a case for either Brown or Columbia, but I don’t know enough about you to make a recommendation. They’re both wonderful schools. Brown for UG and Columbia (or Georgetown) for Graduate School might provide you the best of both. Good luck with your decision!</p>

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<p>Perhaps you could capture as much of the Core as is appealing to you by planning ahead and careful course selection at Brown.</p>

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<p>Keeping yourself healthy is a first requirement imo. From that perspective, you noted that your college experience is going to be stressful at first in any event:</p>

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<p>Regarding Columbia from the perspective of mental health, you said:</p>

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<p>Regarding Brown from the perspective of mental health, you said:</p>

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<p>It would seem that your assessment is that Brown offers lower emotional risk, and greater peace of mind, than Columbia.</p>

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<p>I know a lot has changed since I went to Columbia 30 years ago, but I don’t think it’s changed in one regard. NYC, while a wonderful stimulating place, is a tough place to live. The housing situation at Columbia, if you are not able to secure a “decent” dorm room, is atrocious. You’ll either have to (a) spend a fortune, (b) live in a run down, slum-like building or (c) share a tiny apartment with five other people you never met in order to find a decent place that you can afford. Apart from the housing situation, there is little campus feel, as most of the social life take place in the City. You will have to put up with noise, dirt, bums and crowds everywhere you go. You have got to be tough to go school in New York City.</p>

<p>I love Columbia and have been a long-time alumni supporter. But it’s not for everyone, and it kind of sounds like it might not be for you. From what you said, Brown sounds like a better fit.</p>

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<p>I realize this isn’t the point of your thread but I’m so curious about this: how does a family residing in Bejing afford a $200k USD education? And how can a family possibly substantiate their true income, let alone change in financials? </p>

<p>I don’t mean to be nosey, and I would not expect you to reveal anything that would undermine your anonymity, but it really has me very curious about both the current state of China and where communism has ended up, but also about the practical issue of income verification from some countries.</p>

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<p>I, too, went to school in NYC 30 years ago (in the Village, however, not Morningside Heights). The New York you describe is very similar to life in the Village at that time. Times have changed. My son’s neighborhood at Columbia today is far nicer than the West Village 30 years ago (let alone the East Village, which was essentially a war zone then). Also, at the modern Columbia, which guarantees housing for all four years, virtually all undergraduates live on campus. The dorm rooms I’ve seen are very nice, though certainly not elegant. Finally, between his fraternity activities and his rugby team, my son has little time (or inclination) to blast off into the City; his college is his social life.</p>

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<p>I like cnp’s suggestion that you think about Columbia again for grad school. My oldest daughter went to Columbia, and it is not an easy place for everybody, especially anyone who needs any nurturing. Also in spite of the fact that she did well at the school, she was never able to get the internships and jobs that everyone seems to think are readily available. This being said, my youngest, like you, is now deciding among Brown, Columbia and another Ivy, and I would be perfectly happy if she chooses Columbia. She is incredibly independent, already has lots of friends who will be there, and I think it would be a great fit for her. I hate giving advice based on the snippets people put on the Internet, but the way you describe yourself, you sound much more like my oldest daughter than my youngest, which would lead me to vote Brown.</p>

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<p>Such excellent schools! The fact that you like the artistic feeling of Wesleyan and Vassar make me think Brown might be a better fit. </p>

<p>It’s hard (and I hesitate) to describe my feeling about the “essence” of Columbia (which I attended 30+ years ago and know has changed significantly) but there is something about the combo of its size, NYC, and the self-directedness of the students that can feel challenging and possibly “unwarm.” It did toughen me up, but I think I would have preferred a school of similar academic challenge with a more laid back atmosphere.</p>

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<p>Connie,
You are an amazing writer! I am so impressed with your use of language that I have to remind myself that you are an international student and that, more than likely, English is not even your first language. Wow!</p>

<p>Having said that, I think you’ll certainly find success in either school, just because I sense your talents. You should be primarily focused on assuring you have a good "fit’, particularly with a fragile case of depression.</p>