Be careful to assess the drinking and partying atmosphere at small schools. Often there is nothing else to do in a small town but study and drink, and the drinking wins out.
I think the 4 year graduation rates don’t give a very good picture. My daughter took a semester off to do a Disney internship, something she really wanted to do, so now she’s a statistic on the ‘wrong’ side? I’m glad she could do that. My other daughter went through in 8 semesters at a school that has a terrible 4 year grad rate because it is a STEM school and a lot of kids do co-ops or extend a summer internship because the job is great. It really isn’t an indication of how serious the students are or how much help advisers give. They aren’t babysitters. The student still has to GO to the advising sessions and not drop classes, and not switch majors.
@MrSamford2014 thanks for those tips. I agree about New College. In fact, S21’s high school philosophy teacher went to New College, and she has the kids setting up contracts at the beginning of each school year similar, in my understanding, to the way New College used a contract system. I love the idea (and he’s been great about sticking to his contract and showing a really incredibly strong work ethic), but I think a school that isn’t quite so free-form/unstructured as New College will support him better.
Many years ago, my husband went to college, also with ADHD but without having a diagnosis or knowing to seek out any kind of support services (which there were probably less of back then). He had been an all around star (athletic, academic, and personal/leadership-wise) at his small high school where he’d had a fair amount of structure and support. At Brown, where the environment was much more free-form/unstructured, he had his share of struggles. He did graduate in 4 years and has learned to cope with the ADHD and gone on to do quite well with his own coping mechanisms, but we are definitely aware of how a really free-form environment may not suit S21. Of course, in S21’s case, he has the diagnosis and the medication and knows about seeking out accommodations and support, so in some ways he is in a better position than my husband was.
@gardenstategal I hear you on the Bates/Guilford point. Let me see if I can help clarify a bit -
I probably didn’t think through Guilford thoroughly enough. (I think I mentioned being picky and cutting schools I perhaps shouldn’t). ? So when I saw those graduation and retention rates, in combination with both some comments about a strong culture/social life of students smoking weed in the woods and 25th percentile SAT scores in the mid 400s, I just felt as if the entire academic environment as a whole probably wouldn’t be a good fit for my son.
We have found in high school that he doesn’t even take advantage of some of the accommodations available to him (doesn’t want to seem different for taking longer on a test than someone else, for example) and that what has been the exact kind of “learning support” that has worked for him has been the combination of a low student-teacher ratio and teachers who are incredibly invested in their students as people and make it a priority to help their students understand and grow and do well.
I acknowledge that Bates is definitely a reach. And I’ve considered taking it off the list multiple times. ? But we haven’t let it go just yet. Interestingly, my husband - who, as mentioned above, struggled with his own ADHD in college - is currently adamant about keeping Bates on the list. He recognizes in our son something of his own personality/motivation - they each do better when surrounded by stronger peers. Thus, an environment where the academics are a bit of a stretch but the classes are small, the cohort prioritizes getting their work done (and is more cooperative than competitive and intense), the class discussions are lively with students really engaged and not checked out, and the professors are interesting and accessible and care about individuals pushes S21 to rise. An environment where the academics are easier but the cohort isn’t as invested in the classes or the work…he’ll actually struggle more despite the work being easier. So Bates noted as a definite reach, yes…but still on the list for those reasons. And Guilford - I don’t think it’s a stretch academically - I’m just not sure it’s an academic fit.
I love Rollins College in Winter Park Florida (and Eckerd College is over in St Pete on the Gulf.)
Winter Park is a college town and an extension of Orlando, so lots to do, and close to the Atlantic Side. Rollins campus is beautiful and relaxing with Lake Virginia, and
with Spanish architecture, tile roofs and matching campus buildings.
I think they will do test accommodations for ADHD.
Rollins is one of the older schools in Florida, liberal arts college, with a night school business college,
and strong history program. There are many liberal students and alternative living situations at Rollins, see Pinehurst House. There is some Greek life but not overwhelming.
I get it. Thanks for the clarification. DS is not so different in some ways but is pretty “mainstream” socially. Happy to be in the middle of the pack, so finding a more driven pack helps.
Bard intrigued him intellectually but wasn’t a great fit. Again, not your geography, but potentially a very good fit.
@twoinanddone, thanks for pointing out the potential relationship between internships and the 4 year graduation rate. It definitely seems as if the 6 year rate is a better one on which to focus. And having gone to a small college in a small town with long winters…yep, there was some drinking going on! That being said, for me at that time at that school, I didn’t find it to be a toxic environment at all - not a lot of pressure to drink, and a lot of the drinking-as-a-relatively-common-part-of-social-life was with small groups of friends hanging out chatting in dorm rooms and not a dangerous level of partying (though, to be fair, I’m sure that happened as well).
You may have to try to figure out if graduation rate is higher or lower than would be expected due to admission selectivity and financial-related factors, because those factors tend to be larger than other factors that you may really be interested in.
Just a suggestion, but I would look instead at what the course structure is like. My college expected independence, not attendance, and the midterm was 1/3 and the final exam 2/3 of the grade, that was it. One of my kid’s schools, by comparison, actually took attendance, had many quizes and assigments as well-that worked better for her. Neither bore any relation to the faculty ratio or such. Structure is a different thing to look for.
When you look at Eckerd: eckerd.edu/excellence/ This describes some of their support services. My son has ADHD and my daughter a sleep and processing disorder. The school is a close community with the success of the student in the forefront. We were very happy with the services offered. Both of our children still remain in close contact with their mentors.
@twoinanddone Rollins has a very long list of merit based awards. My husband got both the commuter scholarship and used a Martin Marietta scholarship so he attended Rollins for free. There were a lot of locals who went to Rollins for free if they were willing to commute from home in Orlando. Everyone we know went for free to Rollins, but we happen to know the smart kids at Rollilns in the 1980s. It also has good outcomes, Rollins students end up getting inspired to become urban planners, attorneys, wealth managers, engineers and doctors. There is a nerd element at Rollins even today. Its not just water skiers and tennis players although those students do attend Rollins.
St John’s College (Great Books Program): unique seminar/tutorial-style program in Annapolis, Maryland and St. Mary’s College of Maryland (public LAC on the Chesapeake) Neither one is religious, BTW. Both are close-knit communities with no Greek life.
@nichols51 what do you think his stats will be? That will help people a lot with their recs. Also, you mentioned he doesn’t like the heat in Atlanta. Does that mean he leans towards cooler Appalachian schools and away from schools in Florida?
There’s a thread in the CC “Parent’s Forum” that is discussing “hidden gems”. Many are lacs in your regional search areas. Also many are public lacs that might not be in your radar.
For backups close to home I would consider North Georgia and GA State. North georgia is small. GA State has mechanisms in place to intervene with students having difficulty. They have been very innovative in this and its worth reading about. Both are very different than schools such as UGA.
I highly recommend your child apply to some schools within driving range in case they have a change of heart.
I am surprised about Sewanee and Ashville being knocked off the list. I don’t see Rollins being a fit based on your requirements.
I might look at NC Wilmington and Florida Southern College.
Lewis and Clark you mentioned is non Greek and liberal with students from all over. The classes are small. It would be worth considering.
It might be worth visiting Wofford as its close. It seemed very different than Furman. I could see why Furman was a no based on your requirements.
I think you have a great list, in particular Bates, Clark, Dickinson, and Kalamazoo, to my mind anyway.
I agree Whitman in Washington would probably be a good fit.
Of the schools suggested here, it seems to me that Roanoke, Southwestern, and Trinity University (San Antonio) could be good fits. Centre College too, though I don’t know that one very well. I can’t speak to the Florida schools, just never interacted with them personally or professionally.
Southwestern is in Georgetown, a neat little city not far from Austin.
I don’t know if the culture would be right, but what about Sewanee? It’s basically a wilderness wonderland. We’ve dealt with some of the same learning issues you mention. We found that nature can practically be a cure for some of them. Honestly, I think that so many of these “issues” are products of the environments that we have created for our children (I mean as a society in general, not individually). Modern schools/high schools are awful places to confine mentally and physically dynamic young humans, especially males, it seems.
One of mine was almost completely transformed once they got into nature full time. And I know many others who’ve had the same experience. It’s one reason I think Whitman is a good idea. And I would have recommended UNC-Asheville for the same reason. (Stepping off my soapbox.)
This link should take you to a beautiful video, The Light,
@AlwaysMoving that’s a good point about the difference between the heat in Florida vs the Appalachian schools (while still being within driving distance). I think you’re onto something in terms of which he’d likely prefer in that regard.
In terms of his likely stats - it’s a little tricky to predict, but here’s my best guess -
Rigor -
*Math and science will be a bit weak in rigor. He’ll have Bio, Chem, Physics, and Astronomy but no AP.
*Similarly for math - just the basics: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, Trig. Definitely not a mathy kid.
*But his rigor in the social sciences will be pretty strong. AP classes: 3 or 4 total, likely all in the social studies area (which is exactly right for him - definitely not a 10 AP class kind of kid). And he’ll have had a few years of philosophy including reading original texts of Kant, Aristotle, Lucretius, etc., which I think is unusual rigor for 9th and 10th grades.
*Honors level Latin including some recognition/awards and potentially (?) the Governor’s Honors Program in Latin, though that isn’t definite by a long stretch as it’s a very competitive process.
GPA - probably 3.8 or so unweighted ? Definitely not below a 3.6 or 3.7 unweighted and could be as high as 3.9?
SATs - given the ADHD and slow processing, timed standardized tests are predictably not his strength. He’s studying for the SAT now…we are hoping he’ll eventually be able to get a 600 math (I’d predict somewhere between 560 and 610 math)? and think he’ll be able to be in the 600s verbal (640-660)? I know those scores are low for Bates, for example, but I also know that their reported scores may be a bit inflated due to their truly test optional policy, and if he does alright on his AP exams and gets Governor’s Honors in Latin, he may opt out of reporting his SATs to some schools. Might have him try the ACT as well just to see if it’s any better…standardized testing is rough for him.
I’ve seen Wofford on a list of most conservative colleges and haven’t considered it a fit as a result. Similarly for North Georgia. I have been under the impression that Sewanee wouldn’t be a fit culture-wise? Will add lots of the others mentioned to our list to investigate!
FYI- any of the public schools in NC won’t have a lot of OOS because the state doesn’t allow more than 18%. As for living off campus, it’s cheaper to live off campus than on and at some schools room and board are more expensive than in state tuition. Most kids move off campus the second year- that doesn’t mean they are commuting from home.
UNC- Asheville in state tuition per semester: $3615.25 room and board per semester: $4830