<p>@shorner, if your son decides to attend Michigan, send me a message and I’ll get you on the UMich Facebook page. Good luck.</p>
<p>Will do, @AnonMom13… Thanks so much!! :-)</p>
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<p>His job is not an IOE job. Neither is mine. Yes, there definitely IOEs who make 6 figures straight out of college, but they’re not doing IOE jobs. </p>
<p>^^^^Still has a big paying job with an IOE degree. That was my point.</p>
<p>@shorner, did you say your son is looking to do ME here? I am finishing up my last semester as an ME and would be happy to answer any questions you may have. </p>
<p>I could type up my own thoughts later, but just to comment on a few of Big Money Vlads</p>
<ul>
<li><p>The parking is not very good, but it also isn’t that necessary. I have had a car since Soph year and it is great. I love being able to head wherever I need to whenever I need to, but I know people that don’t have a car (they know me though, so they get rides and stuff). Parking itself is meh. I mean, I never drive to anything on central. Maybe for an IM game at Elbel but parking is free over there after 5 and on weekends. Parking on North is the same, and if not I just hope to find a spot in the CSE lot. </p></li>
<li><p>I have taken 1 IOE class and it was super easy. I think every ME I know that has taken an IOE course has said it was easy. “Instead Of Engineering”. But it is what it is. If you enjoy it and you get a good job out of it then who cares. It will make your 4 years here not as hard. My closest buddy here is actually going from ME undergrad to IOE masters.</p></li>
<li><p>Prereq classes are hit or miss depending on the instructor I think. But they don’t matter too much in the grand scheme of things. Especially if you come in with a bunch of AP credit.</p></li>
<li><p>It is very expensive, especially OOS.</p></li>
<li><p>See, in ME the general thought is that it is too theoretical and not enough application. You have those courses, the X50 line epeically, but some students want more. It isn’t going to be Kettering or Michigan Tech or anything. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>There will be arrogant kids and competitive kids everywhere. It really isn’t that bad in Michigan. Especially the further you get. Most people are happy to help anyone else out. We’re all in the same boat here. That’s not to say I am not a really competitive guy, but I am not going to hurt anyone else because of that.</p>
<p>Also, I took honors theoretical Calc 3 and 4. Stupid and a waste of time really. </p>
<p>Thanks so much for your feedback, @ThisIsMichigan… Yes, my son will be studying ME, so any additional advice/feedback would be hugely appreciated! He won’t be coming in with a lot of AP credit… He only took AP stats as a junior, and is currently taking AP calc, physics and chem (as well as English). I could probably find this info myself, but what do you have to score on the AP exam to get credit for UM – is it a 4 or a 5? He got a 4 in stats, and I would expect at least that for calc and physics… Not sure about chem, though!</p>
<p>In terms of your comment about ME overall being too theoretical, do you think this puts ME students at a disadvantage in terms of job prospects – or does it not matter that the application side is somewhat lacking? Is that something students could get from internship experience? And, speaking of which, have you had any internships while a student at UM, and how do you feel about the career opportunities open to you now that you’re getting close to graduation? We are definitely very interested in making sure that the investment in our son’s education puts him in a strong position 4 years from now (assuming he does well there and takes advantage of all the opportunities he can, obviously), as I’m sure all parents paying this amount of money would be! 
Any insight into all of that would be much appreciated.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the helpful information… Hearing from a student currently in the program is the most useful feedback of all!! :-)</p>
<p>I don’t understand what you mean by an IOE job. I think of an IOE job as jobs that are typical for an IOE majors. So you have both quantitative finance/trading (pays 90-140k all in first year), strategy consulting (pays probably 80k-100k all in first year), operations/tech consulting (70k-85k all in first year), and then industry jobs (pays probably 55-70k all in first year). </p>
<p>On the flip side, why is competitiveness bad? Competitions drive excellence. The more the better. If anything one thing I disliked about Michigan was people being too laid back and have no competitive edge. It’s great for people who want a “everyone gets a trophy” type of culture which is not necessarily a horrible thing.</p>
<p>My “IOE Job” is your “Industry Job.”</p>
<p>First, here are the AP credit guidelines <a href=“AP, IB Credit | University of Michigan Office of Undergraduate Admissions”>http://www.admissions.umich.edu/ap-guidelines</a></p>
<p>AP Physics and Chem and the same time must suck. If he can get credit for all of these though it will help him skip some prereq courses. He’ll still need all of the humanities/social sciences courses though. That’s not necessarily a bad thing though, since he’d get to meet different kinds of people (not engineers). </p>
<p>I don’t believe I was at any disadvantage. Michigan has a very good reputation, we have 300 companies here during the engineering career fair. I was able to walk away from the career fair with over a dozen interviews. I don’t think the course work puts us at any disadvantage. Most companies realize that 90% of what you’ll use on the job you’ll learn on the job.</p>
<p>Plus, we still take 250, 350, 450, which are project based courses. You actually work as a team, design a solution to a problem, build it, test it, etc. It is all hands on. These courses will be on your resume while you build up the actual work experience section. These are very valuable when answering all the behavioral questions you’ll get during an interview. Finally, if he is seeking more hands on, application, group work there are tons of student teams at Umich to join. Solar Car, Formula, Hybrid, etc etc etc. Oh, and there are tech electives he can take as an upperclassman that are more hands on. Basically, one major benefit of Michigan Engineering being so large is that you can do anything you want to do.</p>
<p>During my time at Michigan I had two internships over the summer and one co-op during the winter term. I believe the average at Michigan is probable two summer internships (summer after Soph year and summer after Jr year), which I have heard from recruiters is slightly above average. I was able to take a semester off to work and still graduate in only 4 years thanks to AP credit. I also took two courses at a local community college the summer after my freshman year. </p>
<ul>
<li>I didn’t even realize what the career fair was as a freshman and didn’t think it was for internships let alone freshman. It would be very difficult, but I would definitely try. If not, then knock some courses out during that summer. Just don’t waste it*</li>
</ul>
<p>You definitely gain plenty of real world experience through internships. They are pretty much required. GPA cutoffs for jobs are only like 3.0 (excluding some companies/industries). They like on campus involvement, sure. The key though is actual engineering work experience. Getting my first internship was very difficult. I didn’t get the offer until the very end of the year while I was studying for a final (to be fair, I limited my search to companies near my home, but Cleveland is a big place). After that first internship, my Jr year I had a ton of interviews and a good amount of offers. I had my Winter co-op and Summer internship accepted by December. Then by Sr year, by the time I had 3 work experiences, I had plenty of opportunities. </p>
<p>As far as my career opportunities, I feel like I had plenty of options. As a Michigan graduate, I feel like I could have worked any location in the country I would have wanted. The Engineering Career Resource Center won’t find you a job, but they are helpful in asking general job questions, review your resume, etc etc. I put a lot of work into my job search, but I felt it was very important. Basically, Michigan won’t limit you in any way. </p>
<p>I had pleny of interviews, a good amount of offers, and ended up at my top choice in a company. So I’m extremely happy. It takes work though, there is no doubt about that. It is also very important to build up your contacts throughout your time here. </p>
<p>Within ME, you can pretty much get into any field that you want. That is the beauty of ME. It is very broad in the sense that you can go into many field and industries. At the same time though you can specialize in one thing over another by picking certain tech electives and taking certain internships. All of my internships were in manufacturing and I got a concentration in Manufacturing Systems (the other offered concentration is in Energy).</p>
<p>Basically, in summary, I don’t feel like I was limited by being a Michigan grad at all. If anything it opened a number of opportunities to me I would not get at lesser schools. Our alumni are everywhere and there are many in important positions. One major company that eventually offered me, I was being recruited by a head engineer there that was a Michigan grad. I was able to skip the first round interview and go directly to the on site interview (so did my roommate, and there were only like 10 MEs there). I was also invited to hang out in their suite during a Michigan football game, which was awesome. </p>
<p>One major thing I have learned while job searching for the past few years, for better or worse, is that who you know matters. Being a Michigan grad, you sort of indirectly already know other Michigan grads, lol.</p>
<p>Let me know if you have any other questions </p>
<p>Wow, what an awesome, informative post, @ThisIsMichigan! Thank you so much… I will pass all of the info along to my son and let you know if he has any additional questions for you. A big reason why he selected ME is because he feels like he’ll have lots of different career opportunities available to him when he graduates – and the most flexibility along the way to try out a variety of different types of engineering as well. Seems like you felt the same way. I am very impressed with the way in which you obviously maximized the opportunities available to you at UM… The company you selected is definitely going to be lucky to have you!! </p>
<p>@shorner
Will your son come to Summer orientation and wait till Fall? The registration for orientation just opened today (if you have already paid for the deposit).</p>
<p>@billcsho, haven’t paid the registration fee yet… Once we do, we’re planning to go to summer orientation at the end of July. Do you think that’s too late to get him registered for classes, etc. (i.e. is there a big advantage going in June??)?? Our school gets out so late, that the 3rd or 4th weekend in July is probably the most realistic, but if you’d recommend he go earlier we might need to look into that… Thanks for any advice you could provide!</p>
<p>I think for first year courses, they are usually in large classes and should be okay. You should still register for orientation early as space may be limited for certain days. If you sign up near the last session, there may not be other alternative dates afterward (except for the Fall one) in case the quota is filled. Remember the Art Fair will be on 7/16-7/19. The hotel will be fully booked and more expensive.</p>
<p>Great points… Was thinking of trying for the one that starts on 7/20 (right after the fair ends)… Might still be pretty chaotic around town, though, right?</p>
<p>7/20 may be. Usually they put down everything by the end of the last day, but perhaps not everyone leave town immediately. Then there is a big soccer game on 8/2 right after the last orientation session. So you probably want to avoid that either unless you leave immediately. Imagine the population of Ann Arbor will be doubled on that day. The better sessions for you may be 21-23, 22-24, 23-25, 27-29, or 28-30. We are trying to go to the first one in June.</p>
<p>thanks @shorner. </p>
<p>I actually came in originally thinking I’d do Nuclear Engineering, and switched to ME. One of the reasons was the flexibility of ME and all the different job prospects.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, they stagger the amount of openings during orientation. So coming at a later date shouldnt necessarily hurt you</p>
<p>I know nothing about the Engineering program at Michigan but two thoughts:</p>
<p>1) Most schools have an opportunity to explore the various engineering options before declaring a major. As a friend of mine used to say, “do what you love and the money will follow”. Help him find what he will enjoy doing.
2) My daughter came into Michigan with 29 credit hours from AP classes. This had two negative consequences: first, you pay more in tuition once you become a “junior” which for her was in her first semester of her second year because she came in with so many credits. Most of her credits went to electives. Secondly, it placed her into a higher Calc class which she did not do well in and pretty much killed her chances to get into Ross. So, be judicious with how you report AP credits. </p>
<p>Shorner,</p>
<p>Several synoptic thoughts:</p>
<p>1) Michigan, in its entirety, retains 96% of first year students, which suggests that both the school and students largely find a fit;</p>
<p>2) Engineering departments are all highly ranked and heavily recruited;</p>
<p>3) the resources at Michigan are kind of amazing…something like 11 wind tunnels for aero; the naval flotation take is one of the first and largest in the country; the computing system benefits directly and indirectly from having been built around the Merit network (UM ultimately was granted the privilege of building the backbone for the NSF network) and because the InterNet2 and UCAID consortiums are based in Ann Arbor due to Michigan’s pioneering role in networked systems; Mechanical in particular is well ranked and well recruited; the largest vacuum chamber in the world; one of largest library systems in the world; relatively new Electrical engineering building; an recently funded renovation of GG Brown building…over $500,000,000/year is spent campus wide…a budget that is probably the envy of nearly every other school in the country;</p>
<p>4) 63% of the kids on campus, roughly 17650 students out of 28000 are kids with Ivy level ACT scores…more than any Ivy league school (more than Harvard, Yale and Princeton combined)…which may account for over-confidence, where it exists. My experience was that the kids at Michigan were pretty “centered”…complaints about arrogance may come from competitors who like to excite controversy where it doesn’t exist;</p>
<p>5) the complaints about parking are ubiquitous but I believe there is a degree of pay to play involved;</p>
<p>6) the Michigan faculty in general (not sure about engineering) generally ranks in top 5 to 10 in the country in: major teaching prizes (Guggenheim and Sloan Fellows…); patents filed and granted; start-ups; citations AND citation strength;</p>
<p>7) the UROP or undergraduate research opportunity program is one of the oldest, one of the largest, and one of most highly ranked;</p>
<p>^having a car might be nice for getting out of town but is truly unnecessary overall on campus. I’d likely encourage any freshman living on campus to just avoid the hassle.</p>