Negatives of ND?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Notre Dame
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Many universities that boast about their diversity may have students of all different colors, but whose (mostly liberal) political and social views are actually very similar.

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I think that's the point many people on here were trying to make. Most people, a VAST majority, of those at ND have very similar religious and political views. Couple that with the fairly low amount of diverse representation nationality-wise and geographically (true, they pull students from every state, but they have what, like 1 person from Montana, Arizona, Hawaii, Utah, etc. The majority of ND students are from the midwest or EC). In comparison to peer institutions, ND boasts a low percentage of blacks, Asians, and Hispanics. Many IL schools have over 10% Black, over 10% Hispanic, and over 20% Asian. UCLA's and UCB's populations contain over 40% Asian, 10% Hispanic, 5% black, etc. 76% white is enormous when considered with 40% white at UCs, 55-60% at IL schools, etc. Again, I think ND's "lack" of diversity comes more from the fact that it is mainly a white, Catholic applicant pool. But it's hard to make an argument for "twice" the national percentage, when similar academic institutions boast 4-times the national population of Asians, 2-times ND's % of Black students, and a similar % of Hispanics.</p>

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<p>Notre Dame is an awesome place, however you need to go into knowing sports are huge, single sex dorms, middle of nowhere, and crappy weather. These are things I'd give up for an awesome education, fun time, tight-knit community, and of course football games</p>

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<p>claremarie,
The more I read your posts, the more I am offended and taken aback by them. It is this very attitude that there is a typical NOtre Dame student who likes tradition, dorm life, etc. that contributes to Notre Dame's lack of diversity in the first place. We all are drawn in for different reasons and are in no place to judge others for their reasons. </p>

<p>Secondly, it is not enough for Notre Dame's student body to mimic the national demographics; it is important that all colleges look to educating all students, especially caucasian students, to work and live within the society that we will be in the future, which is going to be very different than we are currently. While 8% of Notre Dame's students may be Asian, that's really not much, considering that a disproportinate number of college students are Asian. Diversity, is not about numbers: it's about enriching the educational environment for all. The sooner we realize that, the better off we'll be. </p>

<p>And yes, like most students from elite, exorbitantly priced private colleges, the majority of Notre Dame students come from wealthy backgrounds. There is no way to get around this point. If half of Notre Dame students are on financial aid, that means that HALF PAY OUT OF POCKET, or CAN AFFORD TO PAY nearly $50K each year. That's more than average family income in the United States. Aside from that 50% who are apparently upper class, many of those that I knew who were on financial aid were the children of doctors and other professionals who had multiple kids in college at the same time....far from middle class. To put it frankly, Notre Dame is known as a playground for the upper and upper middle-class. But it's no worse here than any other elite school. </p>

<p>And as far as Notre Dame being "accepting", we need an opinion from someone who is not the typical rich, white, and catholic student. Of course if you fit into any of these categories you are more likely to think that NOtre Dame is accepting. We need minority, non-catholic, middle class (truly middle class) students to discuss their experiences. </p>

<p>Oh and about political diversity: (warning some may find this offensive, but I am somewhat joking), maybe an inclusive and diverse environment is conducive to liberalism...perhaps the conservatives think twice about expressing their views when they are subject to scrutiny by non-likeminded intellectuals?.</p>

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<p>I'll assume you are joking because you sound equally intolerant.</p>

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<p>'While 8% of Notre Dame's students may be Asian, that's really not much, considering that a disproportinate number of college students are Asian.'</p>

<p>Just how many Asian-American college students do you think there are? According to the US Dept of Education, the percentage of Asians enrolled in higher education is.... 6.4%. So, Notre Dame actually does enroll a disproportionate number of Asians. It's not fair to compare Notre Dame with a handful of "outlier" schools where Asian students are over-represented.<br>
And I heartily agree that diversity is about more than numbers, which is why I continue to object to the oft-repeated statement on these boards that Notre Dame lacks "diversity." How many other colleges out there can claim to host not only the Vagina Monologues but a regular Tridentine Latin Mass, along with a full complement of Division I sports teams and numerous club teams? How many other comparable schools send graduates not only to top law, medical, and business schools, but also to the ACE program to teach in impoverished Catholic schools? </p>

<p>"If half of Notre Dame students are on financial aid, that means that HALF PAY OUT OF POCKET, or CAN AFFORD TO PAY nearly $50K each year."</p>

<p>No, that means that many Notre Dame families rely on loans because they don't qualify for financial aid, but cannot possibly pay $50K out of pocket. And, as you acknowledged, the economic demographics at Notre Dame are not much different than those at comparable schools. Unfortunately, there is a dearth of truly impoverished students at most of the nation's top universities.</p>

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<p>"Most people, a VAST majority, of those at ND have very similar religious and political views."</p>

<p>Really? Other than the fact that most students self-identify as Catholic, on what do you base this statement?<br>
For example, on politics -- are there far more members in the Republican vs. the Democratic party clubs? How many Notre Dame students are supporting Obama, Clinton, or McCain in the presidential campaign? </p>

<p>And on religion, exactly what religious views do most ND students hold in common (other than the fact that they are Catholic)? Many students at ND are Catholic in name only -- they rarely or never attend Mass and have no real connection to the faith. Others go to Mass every day and regularly go to confession and Eucharistic adoration. Most are probably in the middle, with "religious views" that are all over the map. So how can you lump them all together as being essentially the same?</p>

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<p>My friend's son attends ND and simply loves it. For him, it was the 100 percent best choice. On the other hand, I couldn't get my daughter to even consider ND. She is not religious at all and wanted a more open (liberal) college environment. I think that if you know yourself well and if you find out what ND has to offer, which is considerable, you can make a wise decision. If you got into ND early, you must be a very very strong candidate for other top schools. Best of luck with your decision!</p>

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Other than the fact that most students self-identify as Catholic, on what do you base this statement?

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Your earlier slam on liberalism, for one.</p>

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For example, on politics -- are there far more members in the Republican vs. the Democratic party clubs? How many Notre Dame students are supporting Obama, Clinton, or McCain in the presidential campaign?

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If you honestly cannot answer that question on your own, ND students are far more stupid than I thought.</p>

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So how can you lump them all together as being essentially the same?

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I'm Catholic. Most Catholics hold the same or very similar views. Don't be arrogant enough to deny it.</p>

<p>You really come off as a very ignorant, arrogant, and self-righteous white girl. I'm going to hope, for the sake of prospective students on this thread, that not all ND students are as pretentious as yourself. </p>

<p>Lurk: well said :)</p>

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<p>First off, lack of diversity and diversity are part of the school, it's just the way it is and probably will be for a while, so pick accordingly. people like claremarie who care this much about diversity do not really like a "diverse" community they just want more of their race at the school so that they can pick them out more easily from the crowd and only converse with them.</p>

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<p>^^I really don't get the impression that claremarie is a minority.</p>

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<p>vc08,
I'm not a ND student, but a parent. I doubt very much that the "vast majority" of ND students agree on religious and political beliefs, which is why I asked you to support your statement. I've seen plenty of political/religious diversity on campus, in the pages of the student newspapers, and among members of the faculty. And I have to laugh at your statement that because you're Catholic, you know that most Catholics hold the same or very similar views. They don't -- not in the "real world," and not at Notre Dame.<br>
So if anyone else can give me some examples of the uniformity of beliefs among ND students, I'd appreciate it. I've met students and parents who claim that ND is much too conservative, and others who think it's extremely liberal.</p>

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They don't -- not in the "real world," and not at Notre Dame.

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Many of them do. More do, than don't, as a matter of fact.</p>

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I've met students and parents who claim that ND is much too conservative, and others who think it's extremely liberal.

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I know what extremely liberal is. And maybe it's because I'm from CA, which tends to lean left on nearly everything. But ND is not liberal. In fact, it's one of the most conservative schools in the country. And, it's one of the most homogeneous schools in the country. You know they think the same thing when they fly virtually every admitted minority student out to ND for the weekend, on their tab (not that it's a bad idea, but it just proves that they really realize it's lacking in the diversity aspect).</p>

<p>And I'll let vc speak for his/herself, but if you're a parent, please, go to the movies or something. You're way too forceful in your opinion, and, frankly, it's making me, and other prospective students, less and less keen on ND. You don't even go there. Let the students speak about their school. Because believe it or not, they know more about it than you do. If I want a parent's opinion, I'll ask.</p>

<p>btw...if you're so big on the "fact" that ND is so diverse politically and religiously, why don't you look up the stats?</p>

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<p>I was also thinking the exact same thing learnmestuff. Although I thank claremarie for allowing me to see a different viewpoint, I would prefer a student to be ranting as oppose to a parent. I also know what the true meaning of liberal is, and it's very comical to read how she defends one of ND's obvious setbacks. Thanks everyone for the lovely inputs, they are helping me a lot as well as other admitted/prospective students.</p>

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<p>And congrats to you, napoleon, getting into ND EA is quite an accomplishment. If you end up finding the school to your liking, it's a great education. If not, I'm sure you have some other excellent options. :)</p>

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<p>"And, it's one of the most homogeneous schools in the country. You know they think the same thing when they fly virtually every admitted minority student out to ND for the weekend, on their tab (not that it's a bad idea, but it just proves that they really realize it's lacking in the diversity aspect)."</p>

<p>You do realize that this is standard practice at most top schools, all of whom are chasing after the same small pool of highly qualified black students. </p>

<p>"But ND is not liberal. In fact, it's one of the most conservative schools in the country."</p>

<p>Don't think I claimed that ND is "liberal." But I've yet to see any empirical support for the claim that ND is "one of the most conservative schools in the country," so perhaps there is none.</p>

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<p>napoleon-have you visited the campus? You may have mentioned it already, but a visit may help in your decision. While I know a visit may not provide you the most complete impressions of ND, it may help to see for yourself. And yes, I am another parent--but will not enter into this discussion of negatives of ND. However, I will comment that visits to various campuses really made impressions on our student and in some cases, I think, helped to disprove some of what he had been told about various campuses. I will also say that his visit to ND helped to make his decision final and I don't think he has any regrets!</p>

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You do realize that this is standard practice at most top schools, all of whom are chasing after the same small pool of highly qualified black students.

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"small pool of highly qualified black students"...wow, if I were black I'd be pretty offended by that. And, it has nothing to do with only black students. ND is inviting Asians. And that is no small pool there.</p>

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<p>I am confused by many of these arguments. Diversity is a completely different issue from liberalism vs. conservatism. ND is somewhat homogeneous. To its credit, I think the administration is actively working to improve diversity. As for the issue of liberal vs. conservative, it is a catholic (religious) school. If that makes it conservative, I guess it is. That is what many students who attend here are looking for. That being said, I have never heard anything but complete appreciation for different viewpoints on campus. I am not catholic, but have been very welcome in every aspect of the university. Many of the comments here do not reflect what is actually happening on campus.</p>

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Don't think I claimed that ND is "liberal." But I've yet to see any empirical support for the claim that ND is "one of the most conservative schools in the country," so perhaps there is none.

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</p>

<p>In one of your recent passages you insinuated that ND was much more liberal than people think. I'm sorry, but a school that goes by single-sex dorms and just started admitting women in the last 35 years can hardly be thought of as "liberal." </p>

<p>Or, you can go by the fact that the Princeton Review's student survey ranked ND #4 in the country for "alternative lifestyles not an alternative" (even above BYU!).
<a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=2&topicID=25%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=2&topicID=25&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Or, here you go: #11 in the nation for "Future Rotarians and daughters of the American Revolution: <a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=4&topicID=36%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=4&topicID=36&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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For example, on politics -- are there far more members in the Republican vs. the Democratic party clubs? How many Notre Dame students are supporting Obama, Clinton, or McCain in the presidential campaign?

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</p>

<p>For anyone who's interested, here are some links on diversity for various schools/races:
Asian-Nation</a> : Asian American History, Demographics, & Issues :: Best Colleges for Asian Americans
[url=<a href="http://blackenterprise.com%5Dblackenterprise.com%5B/url"&gt;http://blackenterprise.com]blackenterprise.com[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

<p>If you want me to look up any more info on how ND is not "conservative," let me know. I mean wow, I love ND, but you are one stubborn parent!</p>

<p>And DomeGuy: I agree that diversity is a separate issue, but clare brought up the argument that ND is very welcoming and not stuck in its ways. I agree on the welcoming thing, but she wanted proof that is WAS, in fact, conservative, (after insinuating that it wasn't as conservative as people think) so here are the rankings.</p>

<p>But I'm glad you DO find ND so amazing! I truly think it's a gem of a school!</p>

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<p>i think you are all being absolutely ridiculous. stop attacking each other.</p>

<p>i like the make-up of ND and think it fits well in what it is trying to do as a university</p>

<p>of course religiously ND is not going to be completely diverse, it's a catholic university and in my opinion i am glad it accepts more catholics</p>

<p>^that's how i feel a school dedicated to its faith should be</p>

<p>it's different for everyone, but for me, ND is perfect because it allows you to hear all different angles but still has a mission to teach someone in the Catholic faith to be a successful and involved leader in life after college</p>

<p>claremarie, don't feel like you are alone. i'd say i agree with you on most eveything</p>

<p>take ND for what it is everybody. whether you like it or not, ND is one of the few schools staying conservative for the time being</p>