In response to @MrkInMerrick, the suggested questions are designed to narrow choices. As I recall, there is more than one acceptable collegiate choice here. The answers from the coach may inform where you choose to apply ED. Moreover, there is no one right way to do recruiting. It worked for us on multiple occasions to think through strategy and odds. That may not be the way for others.
@Crosbylane, my strong guess is that you will be advised about the pre-read result at the same time that you receive an “offer.” Why would the coach tell you that you passed the pre-read but that he/she doesn’t want you on the team. Of course, this could happen (just as anything can happen in recruiting), but it is more likely that the coach would delay informing you about the pre-read until he/she knows that he/she will be supporting you with admissions, by way of example, after three of the top five recruits choose other schools.
Yes. The coaches are looking to minimize their risk in this process. After passing the academic pre-reads, they will still invite more athletes than they need to the OVs. After one OV at a school that was not near the top of my kid’s list, the coach asked for a commitment before he promised to support. He received a hard ‘no’ and that school was eliminated from the list.
Thanks, makes so much sense. I’ve had the thought as well that D will hopefully receive positive preread result and offer at once, but then again, these schools are taking 10-20 through preread, so obviously not everyone is getting an offer, even with a positive result. I’m guessing AO indicates to coach with read result what level of support the recruit would need? So, in theory, negative prereads could be AO saying “green light” only if suppored. If coach does not want to give that particular recruit one of 2 supported slots, it’s communicated to recruit as a negative preread. At least, that’s what I’m guessing. I like the questions you noted. D and are developing a list to ask if/when offered. For next week’s call, she’ll stick with logistics questions such as how long should she expect preread to take, how does she want test score (screen shot, etc.)? She’s thinking of also asking if coach anticipates a positive preread based on the info. D has given her (she has transcripts, knows test score, has seen senior courses, etc.).
Interesting. I’m guessing not all sports/schools do as many OV after preread? I’m hoping D’s will go straight to offer, but of course don’t know for sure and we will have to go with the flow. She’s had a lot of visits to the school with team, coach, etc. already.
My impression is that different coaches handle the pre-read to visit to offer culling differently. Some offer visits to the group they might be interested, and then make offers after that. The advantage to this is the scheduling is easier. The disadvantage is that it potentially wastes time and money having student athletes visit when there isn’t a spot for them. Others are stingier with their visits, and offer visits to additional recruits if they can’t fill their class on the first round of visits. This is more efficient for everyone, but the coach risks potentially missing out on their second choice picks if the first round doesn’t work out.
For my son, all the offers came after the visit. The student athletes on the team usually have a veto on candidates, as fit within the culture is important. Once an offer comes, be sure to ask how long it will be held open.
A good point I forgot to mention. You may find yourself in the situation of having an ‘exploding offer’ at school A that expires before you’ve heard from school B.
I will throw in another scenario to this based on our experience – some coaches (NESCACs included) essentially may give what I’ll call a “conditional offer” before the pre-read. They didn’t use that term directly, but it was basically like I want you on the team and will give you a formal offer with full coach support unless there is an issue with the pre-read. Essentially everything was discussed upfront of the pre-read and then the pre-read results call was just a confirmation of that with details about next steps (deadline to make decision, additional visits, etc.). Obviously if the pre-read results were not positive, that would have changed things.
If you want to manage expectations in your calls this month, you could contemplate asking the direct question of “assuming there are no issues with the pre-read, do you expect to extend an offer (to me)?” If the coach doesn’t answer affirmatively, then that tells you they are still managing a larger pool. It doesn’t mean anything negative necessarily either, as some coaches won’t make final decisions until the pre-read results. But experienced coaches often know based on the transcripts, courseload (AP, IB, etc.), etc. if there might be any issues with admissions.
@Crosbylane, I have to disagree a bit here. Coaches do not request 25 pre-reads because the adcom will turn down 20 of those 25. Coaches would not encourage an athlete if he or she was out of range. the reason that the number of pre-reads exceed the number of actual recruits is that many athletes simply will like other colleges more for any number of reasons, and they fall by the wayside through attrition.
I don’t think coaches lie about the pre-read if the coach doesn’t have room for a recruit. I am not saying that it never happens, but if a number of recruits apply elsewhere, the coach may have to fall back on recruits lower down on the list. Also, colleges want coaches to encourage everyone they meet with to apply to the school. Telling someone they did not pass a pre-read is a sure way of reducing the number of applications (and recruits).
This matches our experience, also. The coaches had a very strong knowledge of what was needed to pass the pre-read. They were not submitting anyone that wasn’t going to pass. JHU, for example, told us in the very first meeting that SAT’s needed to be above 1510 or he couldn’t submit you. The coaches can’t waste time (or that of admissions) with questionable pre-reads.
Gotcha. So, you’re saying that most coaches already have an idea if recruits will pass pre-read (which I’m also assuming) and they expect that most of the recruits they submit will pass? A coach at a different school did tell us once that they tend to know who will pass pre-read and don’t submit athletes they don’t think will pass. @nycnycnycnyc -You make a good point too with the scenario you mentioned as another possibility. I hadn’t thought of that. I doubt that D will go for the question you suggested, though I would love to know the answer to that!
Your daughter could ask it a little differently. Perhaps something like “assuming there are no issues with the pre-read, where do I rank on the list of athletes you’ll be supporting?” Better to know if you’re #1 or #10 early so you can focus where it matters.
Understood. In your experience, in addition to the grades/scores needed, did the coaches also have a good sense of rigor/course selection required/desired by the AO?
Yes, that is EXACTLY why I’d love for D to know that now; so she can best focus efforts. That said, I’m not sure she’ll ask that directly. She has asked where she is on list before and they say “At the very top”. In her (16-year-old, still naive) mind, that means she’s good to go. Ideally, I’d like her to hear specifically she’s 1 or 2, which I think she is, but again, she doesn’t know for sure and I (of course) can’t force her to ask. I believe @gointhruaphase had suggested awhile back to for athlete to consider asking (if conversation lent itself to this) if they should continue engaging in the recruiting process with other schools (or something along those lines) which D may ask and could yield helpful info.
A negative pre-read is not a “green light with support”; it is a red light ,which will mean the recruitment process at that school is over. Coaches will not offer support to a student that admissions doesn’t approve, nor should you want to waste your precious ED card on a school that doesn’t provide a positive green light!
I think you misunderstood what I meant. What I meant is I’ve seen other people share that there can be some leeway potentially for “impact” recruits that are being given a supported slot. Obviously, those athletes need to meet minimal AO criteria. I obviously know a negative pre-read cannot magically turn into a green light. That is not at all what I meant.
I think’s it’s a matter of semantics with the use of “negative”. A negative pre-read would usually indicate “apply elsewhere” and that even with coach support admissions is unlikely to admit. Generally pre-reads come back from admissions as as likely (positive), possible (neutral), or unlikely (negative). They may even provide specific feedback about grades, planned courses for senior year, or test scores.
Again, if your coaches have been in their position for many years, then they know the process and what they are dealing with. Coaches at NESCACs have good relationships with their admissions liaisons and know what it takes to get their class of x recruits admitted.
You didn’t ask me, but in our experience with both kids, while all of the coaches knew what IB or AP was, the real rigor analysis happens with the AOs. A lot/most of these coaches are not from this academic world. They just work in it.
What we found for both kids, one softball, one baseball, is that school ID camps as well as multi-school camps/showcases (vs travel ball showcases) were the best way to get on radar screens, especially if the schools your kid is interested in are in another part of the country. They were also a great way to objectively size up your kid.
For boys, summer after sophomore year is a good year to hit the camps. The primary benefit is to establish contact and give hopefully a favorable impression to set up for the summer after junior year recruiting season. Summer after freshmen year is ok, but if your kid has not hit his growth spurt, he may be physically at a great disadvantage unless all kids are the same age/grade at the camp. For girls, you might want to get an earlier start as girls generally mature earlier and coaches will more likely start to stack them as well.
I agree that the ability to stand out varies by sport. For softball and baseball, I think it was a lot easier as throwing, hitting and fielding are individual skills that are not team dependent. If a kid hits mid to high 60’s (softball), mid 80’s to 90’s (baseball), they are going to grab immediate attention. I would guess soccer is more difficult. While ball handling, passing and shooting skills and speed/agility can be assessed, movement off the ball and anticipating where teammates will go and space created is dependent to a large part on your teammates. Also in soccer, straight line speed and game speed can be very different and the ability to show that off is dependent on other players, teammates and opponents.
It sounds as if your daughter is in a very good place with interest from the coach, and that she has hit many of the “benchmarks” along the way of NESCAC recruiting in terms of the communication, offer of a pre read etc., but it is definitely nerve wracking. Having gone through this with DS last year, once the pre read was confirmed by the coach and the discussion of ED application with support from the coach was suggested, we were able to breathe a lot easier, and it seems as if things were moving along at a slow pace and then came to a point where they moved incredibly quickly. Just FYI, he did not hear anything until the middle of July, so please do not stress if 7/1 comes and goes without anything firm from the coaching staff.
The green light from admissions and the choice to ED was definitely a confidence booster, but our son waited for the acceptance letter to arrive before he bought any school gear.
There is so much uncertainty in the world of recruitment and I know our family was hoping for certainty along the way, but it sounds like your daughter is moving along well through the process and it is as positive as it can be at this point.