Really hard to say. Varies by school, sport and, most importantly, year.
One year, Pacific Lutheran University added two WSU transfers at a time when WSU was challenging for P12 titles. That, following a year when they had nabbed another from WSU and a player from Seattle University. A new coach at PLU and playing time probably figured into all that.
That would have been a bad couple of years to be a middling recruit at PLU.
Sadly (for you right now at least), there is some fluidity and less than clear line of sight involved in this.
After the pre, it’s time to get down to brass tax with the coach. Then, at that point, you’ll really know where you are.
On whether to press the coach further, prior to pre-read, about whether your daughter will be offered support: I wouldn’t. It doesn’t feel like your daughter is comfortable doing it. Plus I don’t see how this would change what you do. She’s been told ‘very top’ of the list already? I’m not sure the coach (or your daughter) feels more needs to be said at this point.
Even if coach says #1 on list and definite offer if pre-read is positive, then what? Pre-read could go badly, coach could move on (early summer is when a lot of these contracts are renewed or not), or a million other things you haven’t worried about yet. You should be keeping all the backup options alive no matter what.
I’d ask about the timeline instead: how long does pre-read usually take, any issues you see causing problems, when do you usually make final decisions on recruits to support, etc.
And I’d definitely prioritize a discussion about FA if you’ll need it. Just have her mention to the coach that you’ve done the NPC and it looks great but you’re wondering if the school offers a FA pre-read along with admissions pre-read. The coach will know how best to handle it. And if you need the aid and it’s a school where this will be a problem (unlikely at need-blind I think) you’re far better off knowing that now.
I know your daughter wants to be the #1 or #2 recruit at two or more schools. So do a lot of other players, and the coach wants to be sure he gets 3 or 4 of those #1s for his team. It just isn’t possible for everyone to be #1 at the school that really matters to them. You are also trying to make your child happy if she becomes the #1 at her #5 school. There is just so much shifting around because a certain player is #1 at 5 different school, but can only go to one. If the next player is #2 at the same 5 schools, that leave 3 schools with no #1 or #2, and those coaches don’t want to say to the recruit ‘well you were #5 but now you are #1.’ Nope, that coach is going to make 5 players think they were #1 all along.
By the same token, your daughter can’t just pick 2 schools and say ‘I’d like #1, but I’d be fine with #2, so I’ll give up all the other schools that want me.’ Everyone is juggling them all. Of course, at some point she will make one school #1 by going ED to that school.
She doesn’t think she is #1 or #2 at 2 or more schools nor did I ever indicate she expects it. I also noted above that there is some fluidity, of course for all the reasons you mentioned. As I’ve mentioned several times, she has a couple of other offers from non-NESCACs and is in a good place with several other NESCACs. She does have 2 clear front-runner NESCACs that she particularly feels are good fits with one of them being her #1 choice in an ideal world. She does not feel anything is a done deal, expected, a given or “owed” to her. She feels one is looking more likely than the other. That’s it. Folks continually emphasizing how tenous the whole process is not helpful, however well intended. Obviously I know that, hence the stress about the uncertainty.
I was just pointing out the numbers can’t be nicely put into boxes. If you have 5 schools and each coach can have 2 players, you could have 10 kids who can neatly fit into being either #1 or #2 at these 10 schools and all 10 kids would get to play in hs and everyone would be happy. But there are more than 5 schools and way more than 10 players. I think coaches are telling a lot of kids they are #1 or 2, ‘at the top’ or will have significant playing time knowing that every player is applying to more than 2 schools and the coach not wanting to lose out on a top player. There is the musical chairs aspect, but sometimes chairs are added back in or 4 are removed in the same round when you were expecting there to be only 1 spot removed. All you can do is play the game in front of you. Be honest with the coaches, ask the questions, but be ready to jut the other way.
I also believe coaches do play that game with admissions that they support some players with lower stats because they ‘know’ that a player with higher stats can get in on his/her own, or only needs a tip and not a slot. In my daughter’s sport, there are already 10 or more girls committed to Middlebury, which just won the national championship. All 10 (and more) will get in. If a top top player becomes available after ED (or through transfer), the coach can get that player in too. The coach can’t win national championships by only getting 2-4 slots per year and hoping there will be good walk ons. The coaches and ADs are shuffling slots, relying on top students to get in on their stats, maybe a few.
I’d hope a coach who told a student who cleared pre-reads to apply ED would then support that student through admissions.
Having gone through this with 2 kids, I know how stressful it can be. What I kept telling both kids (and myself) is that you can only control what you can do – how a coach ranks your kid and who your kid is competing with, the coach’s relationship with the AO, the coach’s timing, the coach’s personal preferences, the strength of the returning roster are all critical components of the process with that school/coach that are independent of anything you or your kid can do.
What is within your control is to communicate interest, maintain grades and rigor, shore up test scores if necessary and if you can. Update stats, awards, video when there is something to share. Choose camps wisely, and remember besides an evaluation of the recruits as players, they are also looking at attitude and elements of being a team member. Does the kid take instruction well, does she/he hustle on and off the field, does it look like they are having fun, are they supporting other players, are parents helicoptering their kid.
I always used the analogy of a funnel in the recruiting process. At this stage for D3, it is still relatively open. It narrows very quickly over the summer, and the key is to make sure you keep as many viable options open as you can. Hope for Plan A, but have a path lined out for Plans B, C, D etc… Don’t worry, the picture will come into sharper focus. If your kid is a true #1/2, it will be clear early. The nail biters are the kids on the bubble for the last seats.
I went back through our spreadsheet from last summer, when I was just as anxious and nervous as you about this whole recruiting process! Just to give you an idea, most schools started coming back with preread results around July 13 or 14th, with a few at the end of July.
Hope this helps you with the waiting game!
Thank you for doing that, I appreciate it! Yes, in talking to more people I’m realizing it will likely not be for at least a week or two after the pre-read until she hears anything; possibly longer. In terms of 2 NESCACs, one coach told her the preread process was “very informal” and to just send the required info. (transcripts, test score, senior courses, school profile) to her by July 1st. The other NESCAC coach is sending D a Google form next week to start collecting info. I am realizing the next 6 weeks or so will be what they will be. D is doing everything she can to be in as good a position as possible, and that’s all she can do.
This is what happened on the call my D just had with the coach at her #1 NESCAC choice. Coach had told her she was sending D the Google form next week to submit her pre-read info. D had a call with her today to ask some additional questions about pre-read. Coach told D that if she passes pre-read (and she sees no concerns with transcript, senior courses, etc., all of which she’s seen), she will call her on Juy 1st and offer her a supported roster spot.
That’s great, but I would not stop communication with other schools. Keep your D’s options open until you have a likely letter that describes a roster spot or acceptance. It’s not over until it’s over.
Absolutely! She has a call with another coach next week and a visit on 7/2 to another school! Keeping all irons in the fire until firm supported offer that D officially accepts.
Quick question- if she gets offer from #1, she will of course ask how long she has to decide, because even though it’s her #1, #2 is another top choice and I know she’ll want to check in with that coach, let her know she has another offer and find out what her timeline is with that school. Will coach of #1 be offended by D not accepting right away? Obviously, D would be super excited, but just want some time (as long as that time doesn’t exceed how much time coach says she has).
Congrats. After the preread, confirm it is a fully supported “slot” vs a “tip”. The coach should be able to give a probability of acceptance if your D applies ED. If it is fully supported, we are talking 90% plus. Also see of you can get a FA preread if you are not full pay.
Coaches will vary on response deadlines. They almost all ask what other schools your kid is considering and where the kid has ranked their school. While you don’t necessarily need to show all your cards, we found being transparent with coaches engenders goodwill. The world of D3 athletics is small.
My son didn’t ask how long he had with 4 of his offers, and the coaches didn’t set deadlines. One offer was made in May, and hung out there until my son declined it in August. The offers he got from NESCACs didn’t have a deadline, although the coaches checked in very frequently. Then the exploding offer came (from a NESCAC), giving him a week to decide. The only coach he told about that offer was at the school that had become his first choice.
All that is to say, no, the coach will not be offended if your daughter doesn’t immediately accept. I went into such detail so you can see what coaches experience.
You could certainly be authentic with the #1 coach, and say something like the school is her 1st choice (or in the top 3) but it’s a big decision, and she wants some time to make sure she’s making a good decision. The coach also wants your daughter to make a thought-through decision. S/he doesn’t want your daughter having regrets and changing her mind down the road.
The first coach who made a firm offer told my son to take a few days to think it over and discuss with us to make sure that it was the right choice for him, and while he was ready to accept right away the advice to think about it for a few days was very helpful to him. It clarified that it was his first choice school and he felt that he would be happy there.
The NESCAC is a tight knot conference and the coaches know that they are often competing for the same athletes, but also all of the schools are excellent choices, so definitely take the time to weigh all avenues. If there is a clear #1 choice in her mind, accept the offer and take a breath before getting to work on putting together an awesome application, congrats again!
I agree communication with other coaches should continue. In this thread we have only been talking about NESCAC schools, none of which provide likely letters. There are a few D3 schools outside the NESCAC that make use of likely letters, but not many. Not sure any D1 schools that use LLs are in the mix here.
Posted this on another thread, but adding it here too in the hopes folks have some experience/input with this.
Pre-read results question. So, D got results from a NESCAC pre-read today. Coach had told her if she passed pre-read, she’d call her with an offer today. Long story short, Coach called her and told her that her pre-read “came back lower” than she anticipated. Coach told D she was really surprised with her grades, etc… Coach has been there 6 years. Coach didn’t use any kind of light (yellow or red) analogy or say anything about bands. D has a 93.83 GPA (4.0, unweighted) with multiple APs and Honors courses and 32 on the ACT. D has submitted at several highly academic schools and never been told anything seemed off at all. Coach told her that this has happened before and she is going to re-submit it and should hear back in 1-3 days. She didn’t tell D what the outcome has been when it’s happened in the past, but presumably positive or she wouldn’t have mentioned it, we’re guessing? Told her to try not to stress and that she is their top pick and they really want her there. Coach asked my D if that school is her top choice and D said yes and Coach said she would tell admissions that, because that could help.
So, D is pretty down in the dumps as this was unexpected. I’m “surmising” that admissions put her in a C band? Maybe coach wasn’t given a C band slot? Maybe admissions gave results of pre-read without knowing who ranked where on coach’s list? Does that happen? Is there a chance coach didn’t tell admissions yet D is their top pick and it will make a difference? D has solid grades from a highly ranked school, several APs, at least 2 honors courses every year and 3 APs and an honors course next year. I’m guessing coach is trying to get her moved up to a B band? Any thoughts on this? Please don’t say she shouldn’t put all her eggs in this basket- she and we know that- but this is her top pick and a school she could really see herself at, so it was a tough call to receive.
Yes, in talking to more people I’m realizing it will likely not be for at least a week or two after the pre-read until she hears anything; possibly longer. In terms of 2 NESCACs, one coach told her the preread process was “very informal” and to just send the required info. (transcripts, test score, senior courses, school profile) to her by July 1st. The other NESCAC coach is sending D a Google form next week to start collecting info. I am realizing the next 6 weeks or so will be what they will be. D is doing everything she can to be in as good a position as possible, and that’s all she can do.