NEVER say blacks will do worse at elite colleges...

Applying to College
1

<p>"Colleges With the Highest Black Student Graduation Rates</p>

<p>For many years Harvard University, traditionally one of the nation’s strongest supporters of affirmative action, has produced the highest black student graduation rate of any college or university in the nation. But for some unexplained and possibly immaterial reason, Harvard slipped to second place in 2004. But now the 2006 data shows Harvard’s black student graduation rate has increased to 95 percent, once again the highest among U.S. colleges and universities.</p>

<p>Amherst College, the small liberal arts college in western Massachusetts, now has a black student graduation rate of 94 percent, the second highest in the nation. Williams College, Wellesley College, and Princeton University also post a black student graduation rate of 94 percent. Four other highly ranked colleges and universities in the United States posted a black student graduation rate of 90 percent or above. They are Brown University, Washington University, Stanford University, and Yale University.</p>

<p>black student graduation rate by school:</p>

<p>harvard..........95% (avg. gpa....~3.4)
Amherst..........94%
princeton........94%
wellesley.........94%
williams...........94%
brown.............92%
yale................92%
stanford..........90% "</p>

<p>Comparing Black and White College Graduation Rates</p>

<p>Sometimes a better way to compare the performance of the nation’s highest-ranked colleges and universities in successfully graduating black students is to examine the difference in the graduation rates between their black and white students. Using this comparison, a high-ranking institution such as Pomona College in California, which has a black student graduation rate of 83 percent — a figure well below many of its peer institutions — nevertheless ranks high on a relative basis because its white student graduation rate of 81 percent is actually two percentage points lower than the rate for black students.</p>

<p>Many academics and administrators will be surprised to hear that there are in fact a few selective colleges in the United States that report a higher graduation rate for blacks than for whites. Five of the nation’s highest-ranked colleges and universities actually have a higher graduation rate for black students than for white students. According to the latest statistics from Mount Holyoke College, Pomona College, Smith College, Wellesley College, and Macalester College, a black student on these campuses is more likely to complete the four-year course of study and receive a diploma than is a white student.</p>

2

<p>Has anyone ever asserted that...?</p>

<p>Beyond the fact that many blacks live in low-income areas and their HS may or may not prepare them properly for college, I don't think anyone else believes what you're refuting.</p>

3

<p>^ maybe not many, but i have heard people say it before, esp. on this forum.</p>

4

<p>if someone is good enough to get into one of those schools that you listed above its only logical that they are people interested in competing their education. Those schools perhaps lower standards of acceptance for URMs but they wont take people who are unqualified or would bring down the overall intellectuality of the school.</p>

5

<p>People don't say that blacks are dumber and have less of a chance of completing college. People say that since a large portion of them attend HSs that don't push them, they're less likely to be prepared for a college workload at a top university. But since statistically the URMs that attend the elite schools are generally more affluent and attend better high schools than those who attend (no offense) lesser schools, it's pretty clear why Harvard would have a decisive advantage in such matters.</p>

6

<p>^ i agree, Me_duh.....but some people don't seem to think that way. they assume that most black students accept to an ivy college (or elite) are underqualified and only got in because of AA. i have made this thread to completely obliterate that theory.</p>

7

<p>^ There's probably some truth to that. I don't necessarily think most "black" are underqualified. In the Elite Colleges game a large pool of students are qualified, it's little things like URM status that pushes them into the accepted pool. No one would argue URMs are underqualified (many a few) but URM is definitely a "push" factor. Look at CalTech's demograph for example, it doesn't practice Affirmative Action.</p>

8

<p>I agree that blanket statements about URMs potential poor performance at top schools should be taken with a grain of salt. Correspondingly, your blanket statement shouldn't divert our nation from seeing that, outside the few thousand URMs who will apply and eventually attend the top tier schools, blacks, latinos and natives, as a whole, perform worse than their majority or ORM counterparts -- regardless of AA recruitment or not. The myriad causes of this doesn't get much discussion here on CC.</p>

<p>Basically I'm just trying to say that College Confidential and its little universe of chasing top-tier college admissions sometimes needs perspective.</p>

9

<p>ummm about the graduation you listed up there youllsee...
well of course the graduation is going to be high; Obviously! theres not alot of American Americans attending those elite schools anyway so Duh of course most of the few that they have is going to graduate...</p>

10

<p>"so Duh of course most of the few that they have is going to graduate..."</p>

<p>-Umm.... What???</p>

11

<p>QUOTE:
"...of course most of the few that they have is going to graduate..."</p>

<p>yes, but according to some, most of "that few" are underqualified. that's what i am proving to be false. anyway.....here's an interesting article i found for any anti-AA people.</p>

<p><a href="http://web.lemoyne.edu/%7Escullebe/writingsample2.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.lemoyne.edu/~scullebe/writingsample2.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>it's best if you read that whole thing.....there are some really good points in this article.</p>

12

<p>^ you'llsee... When we say underqualified on CC, we only mean underqualified to be in the Accepted pile (ie, Cure Cancer etc). "Elite" colleges like Harvard and MIT agree that a large portion of their applicants are "qualified", it's little things (like being a URM) that allow you to get accepted.</p>

<p>Stop trolling with your Pro-AA stance, no one's gonna change their opinion because of this!</p>

13

<p>"so Duh of course most of the few that they have is going to graduate..."</p>

<p>-Umm.... What???</p>

<p>no need to reiterate....i'm clear enough</p>

14

<p>milki, wether your opinion changes or not doesn't matter...the facts are there. you have the right to remain in a state of denial over the issue.</p>

15

<p>I think So Authentic means since the pool of URMs at "Elite" Universities is smaller, it's not a realistic method for statistical analysis.</p>

<p>
[quote]
milki, wether your opinion changes or not doesn't matter...the facts are there. you have the right to remain in a state of denial over the issue.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Exactly...troll. Did I ever say "blacks" do worse at elite colleges. Read my posts clearly.</p>

16

<p>"since the pool of URMs at "Elite" Universities is smaller, it's not a realistic method for statistical analysis."</p>

<p>-What? This doesn't make sense.</p>

17

<p>QUOTE:
"I think So Authentic means since the pool of URMs at "Elite" Universities is smaller, it's not a realistic method for statistical analysis"</p>

<p>^ then that means you can't say that white students generally have higher gpa's. why? b/c it's inevitable since there are a lot more of them. if 5 white students recieve a gpa of 2.0, it will hardly affect the average gpa. however, if 5 black student were to get a 2.0, you would see a significant change in the average because there are few black students.</p>

18

<p>I hate faulty research and conclusions drawn on such. you'llsee, I have no problem with you holding a pro-AA stance, but to link garbage in order to support your belief makes your argument garbage.</p>

<p>That article makes many many unsupported assumptions. The first is that white legacy applicants are similarly qualified to the average URM. This assumption is patently false, as many white legacy males and white legacy females are most likely either enrolled in very strong public schools or elite private institutions such as Roxbury Latin, Windsor, Horace Mann, etc. Thus they are on average much more qualified, thus leading to a higher acceptance rate. </p>

<p>The second and more important is that the pool of legacy applicants is much smaller than the URM pool at large, so the acceptance rate is bound to be higher due to the low number of spaces. Think about it. Example (simplified to a large degree): There are 10 total spaces, if there's 30 legacy applicants that's 33%, if there's 100 URM applicants it's 10% for those same spaces. It just makes sense logically. And since the number of URM applicants far outpaces the legacy ones, this holds true.</p>

<p>Another mistaken assumption is that universities have a certain number of seats for just legacy students, which is simply not true. Overall a crappy, incoherent article supported with information that really doesn't address the issue.</p>

<p>P.S. - The statistics are also outdated. This year Yale accepted a lower percentage of its legacy students than its general admissions rate.</p>

19

<p>KK nothing makes sense to you.....not even your own display name</p>

20

<p>I wonder if professors expect a little less from URM. Graduation in itself doesn't prove anything.</p>