<p>Following on what northeastmom said, I have similar concerns that DS will be accepted to a school where he will find himself in over his head, surrounded by students with much more experience in working hard to achieve academic excellence. The age-old question is, will he step up to the challenge and reach his potential or will he be bowled over by the experience and risk flunking out.</p>
<p>DS is very laid back, and were going to have to spell it out to him that the students at schools like Univ. Chicago (one reach school for him) dont just spend an hour or two on their studies each day. OTOH, I dont want to hold him back with my somewhat pessimistic view on this. These conversations will require much careful preparation on my part in order to present this in both a realistic and constructive way.</p>
<p>PayFor, if your S has a 3.0-3.3 GPA (the purpose of this thread), you should eliminate the U of Chicago off the list. More than 89% of its students have a 3.75 GPA or higher, and only about 3% have a GPA within the 3.0-3.3 range. Unless your S has an incredible hook, there is no point in even considering the U of Chicago. Hope that’s not too disappointing.</p>
<p>I may be in trouble for posting on this thread by mistake, but I just wanted to chime in on the topic of a student finding himself overmatched at his accepted colleges. DS actually falls within the thread GPA range, but Ive again forgotten if that means UW or W. I think it means 3.0-3.3 weighted, so I dont belong here. So sorry. Chicago is a huge reach, but DS is an URM and has very high test scores so itll stay on his list. For now, at least.</p>
<p>We have been discussing this whole issue of whether a “reach” school is appropriate also. He has a tough schedule this year and if he performs then it will give us a better indication of whether he will do the necessary work. He believes that he will be fine in a reach college because he there won’t be so much “busy work”. He thinks that I am a pessimist and should give him the chance to apply… Fine, but I need some safer schools.</p>
<p>My son’s top schools at this point are Furman, Franklin and Marshall, High Point, Quinnipiac and Marist. (He also liked Susque. and Ursinus and he might apply to Emory & Henry, McDaniel, UMW and probably UCONN) He also really like Lafayette but that would really be pushing it.
He did not like: Clark, Wheaton (MA), Emmanuelle, Stonehill, Northeastern, Juniata, Lynchburg, Roanoke, UNC Ashville, Muhlenberg and Goucher. (Did drive thrus of Lycoming and Moravian - wasn’t interested)</p>
<p>He doesn’t care where the school is located except that he doesn’t like to be right in a big city like Northeastern.</p>
<p>Any additional suggestions would be appreciated…</p>
<p>Why High Point? I don’t get it. Disclaimer, I never visited. I read about how absolutely beautiful the campus is, and about the nice perks for students. Is the focus on education though? The financial aid doesn’t seem great on average. The area around campus is a has been furniture mecca that I believe has many boarded up businesses. Oh, as far as aid, Quinnipiac I know, on average is not good either. About UMW, I believe they require 4 semesters of a foreign language. If your son does not mind, it isn’t a problem. I believe McDaniel requires 3 semesters of a foreign language. UCONN is a pretty big school, but seems to have a lot of school spirit.</p>
<p>Son has 3.3uw in mostly honors and a few APs, has not worked very hard, 1290 SATs. Has some hooks–male from Northeast looking at LACS out of the Northeast, a good enough soccer player that several DIII coaches have told him they would give him a “push,” very strong on other ECs, in particular service. I have talked to him about applying to what we think would be some reaches, one where the soccer coach has contacted him, but he is adamant that he does not want to go to a reach where he might be overwhelmed. He very much wants to go to a school where he feels like there are a bunch of kids like him–pretty bright, moderately underachieving in high school, looking to get their academic legs under them over time at a good school.</p>
<p>nepop - where does he want to go - Midwest, West, South? What size schools appeal to him small, medium, large? Anything he’s seen that he liked so far?</p>
<p>Middle Atlantic, Midwest and Northwest. Does not like the heat (fair skinned redhead), so South/Southwest is out, wants to go far from home (not concerned about this, he has taken extended soccer trips, 5 week service trip to Ghana this Summer, never any homesickness), so no New England or New York. We visited some schools in the Midwest that I think would be match/slight reach for him this Spring–Earlham (loved it), Lawrence (loved it), Beloit (so-so), Cornell (did not like), Knox (did not like). Also visited Goucher (loved it). Planning on looking at some of the NW LACs (Willamette, UPS, L&C), possibly visiting after Fall soccer season is over. He does not want to look at some schools that I think of as a notch up from the above in terms of competitiveness–say Kenyon, F&M, Whitman–that I think would be reaches but that I think he would have a shot at.</p>
<p>Take a look at Hope College in Holland, MI; Kalamazoo College in Kalamazoo, Michigan; St. Olaf’s in Northfield, MN; Dennison in Granville, OH; Lake Forest (outside Chicago). Hope and K and St. Olaf are always looking for geographic diversity and might give a boost in that area in lieu of GPA.</p>
<p>Nepop, I too was going to recommend Kalamazoo if your son is nerdy. One advantage (or disadvantage, depending on what the student wants) of Kalamazoo is its urban location. So many of the small LACs are rural, but K is right in a medium-sized city, and right next to a huge state university, so students are not isolated in the middle of nowhere.</p>
<p>Well as a K grad i wouldn’t say “nerdy” but more quirky, I guess I equate nerdy to the computer/engineering types, but of the two Hope and K, Hope has more althletic-y, wholesome-y vibe than K. The MIAA athletic division provides lots of competition and team rivalry for the kids that are into the athletics and its easy to get involved if you want to. Hope has an annual class “tug of war” which I can’t imagine the kids at K getting “into.” Kids either like one or the other. Both do an excellent job “educating” the students and getting them into grad schools if that is the student’s bent. Holland, MI is a really charming town with the beach scene. Both have lovely campuses. All of the schools I mentioned I would be happy to have any of my boys at but they all want to LEAVE the midwest and spread their wings.</p>
<p>Am I the only person who suspects that kids who are reluctant to apply to reaches for fear of being overwhelmed may be overestimating the academic difficulty of their reach schools as compared to their match schools? There seems to be an assumption here that difficulty of admission correlates in a more or less linear way with academic rigor, and that strikes me as unlikely. I would guess that such a correlation only becomes significant when the gap in selectivity gets really large, to the point where there is little overlap in academic abilities and backgrounds between the student bodies. But I don’t have any objective basis for thinking so, and I’m curious what others think.</p>
<p>To a certain extent I agree nighchef, but it depends on the kid I think. If they are an 80th percentile type of kid taking their high school’s tougher classes and getting 2 or 3 on AP tests they have the capacity and ability to do fine at all but a very small handful of schools like you mention where the entire student body is encompassed in a narrow band of uber-students. That said, schools evaluate on so many different criteria. No school will admit a student they think will fail or be unhappy, etc. so kids should apply where they want and let the chips fall where they may.</p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestions. Son not nerdy, more an alternative/soccer kid. Intellectually engaged, just not in what they are doing in school all of the time. KZoo is a school we have talked about, we may try to visit. Also Gonzaga and some of the other West Coast Catholic schools (Portland, St. Mary’s). Don’t know much about Hope. Have family in the Chicago area and, frankly, have heard some not very positive things about LFC, though I know one has to be very careful about relying too much on anecdotal type info. I think the comment that kids reluctant to go to a reach are overestimating how hard it might be is probably right, that is a conversation I have had with my son, but I’m finding that a lot of this (the this being finding a school that is a good fit for your kid) is more art than science. He thinks he will be more comfortable at more of a match school; I might not agree, but given that I don’t think he would get any better of an education at a reach vs. a match, this is one battle I am not fighting, not much anyway. I think some of the schools we have visited are schools he will get in to and would be great fits for him, so no reason to push him to go to a “better” school that he might not be as comfortable at.</p>
<p>nepop - Hope is about an hour and a half or less northwest of K’zoo if you don’t mind a non-interstate trip. Fall is particularly nice along the lakeshore if you plan a trip. You can get to K in about 2 hours or less depending on where you stage your trip from Chicago. Holland is a straight shot down the lakeshore to Chicago, I can get to Midway from Holland in 2 hours if traffic around Chicago is good. Both K and Hope I think are in the CTCL book if you read that. I will be visitng Lake Forest with Son 2 this fall. It will be interesting, I visited (for myself) way back in the 70s but it was alittle too preppy and not as academically interesting as K back then, but my son is definitely the preppy sort and loved Hobart so off to LFC we go, and who can deny themselves a quick, close trip to Chicago for the weekend…early Christmas shopping. K has the wonderful foreign study program that almost everyone takes advantage of so it might appeal to your son if for nothing but that reason.</p>
<p>nepop, I agree completely–fit trumps everything else. I just think we should encourage our kids to be open to the possibility that a reach could be a good fit, and you’ve done that. As you say, there’s no reason to make it a sticking point; wherever they feel at home and confident, that’s where they belong.</p>
<p>Regarding Seattle Pacific. Seattle Pacific is a popular choice of christian students in my community. A good friend’s D recently graduated and she absolutely loved the school and the community. She is getting married in about a week to another Seattle Pacific student. The girl was not a high achiever but a student who did well because she worked hard. Her SAT scores I think were in the 1100-1200 range (4 yrs ago). She got a small amount of merit aid. Another friend has a senior D who is a great student whose top choices are Seattle Pacific and Gordon College in Mass. In our area Seattle Pacific appeals to those who definitely want a Christian college experience.
Another option in the West if your student is looking at schools like Point Loma and Seattle Pacific is Westmont. I think Westmont would be attractive to the same type of student who would like Seattle Pacific. I have heard Point Loma is more religious.
Also a fairly regular poster Momoftoinca has a D who attends Seattle Pacific.</p>
<p>I think Nightchef is right that many kids fearful of reaches are overestimating the difficulty of being, say, 100 SATs points below the average. Much depends on why your student is a B or B+ student. Some lack motivation because of HS busywork and teacher personalities–they may thrive in a reach. Other simply find academics boring–they will not thrive being around kids shooting for As unless they find a teacher inspiring. Some simply do not want to work too hard outside class–reaches may involve more work than they are prepared to do–but I am not sure reaches necessarily require more work than matches. And some lack academic self-confidence and may be intimidated at a reach by very intellectually aggressive students.</p>
<p>And, of course, some B students are working to the best of their ability and may be B students in a match and C students in a reach on the merits.</p>
<p>I am sure many reaches for B students are no harder than safeties–but have no idea how to find out which ones. Then again, I also sure the quality of teachers is not significantly higher at all reaches than all safeties. I wish there was a diplomatic way of finding out college workloads.</p>
<p>Given your extensive list, my thoughts are that, in PA, Gettysburg and Dickinson are often matched with F&M and Alleghenny with McDaniel. Drew is the only NJ option and Hobart and Alfred come to mind in NY. Matches for Marist and Quin might be Fairfield, Loyola Maryland, Villanova and St Joes. Regarding your hope that schools be easier to get into than F&M, I think of these only Gettysburg and Villanova would be more difficult and not hugely so.</p>