<p>Unless all the info session presenters we’ve seen are big fat liars, test scores are far less important than GPA (or more precisely, the combination GPA*rigor, and who knows how they quantify that). One presenter seemed to imply that they use the test scores mostly as a ‘tiebreaker’ to differentiate kids with similar academic records (she didn’t use that word, but that was the gist). </p>
<p>For us, with the high-SAT, B+ kid, this is terrible news, and I always find myself getting irrationally annoyed with the presenters who deliver the GPA>SAT message as if it’s going to be a big relief to everybody.</p>
<p>I did the math with 100 = 4.0, which isn’t really right I suppose because 100 could be 4.3 in some schools. (Some schools, and until three years ago this included our school, don’t have minuses and pluses, so an A minus or A plus is 4.0.)</p>
<p>Aglages, thanks for the very interesting chart.
Nightchef, I agree schools spend much more time worrying about fears of disqualifying SATs than GPAs (no schools have gone the GPA optional route yet), but the Penn State chart seems to me to value SAT points somewhat higher than GPA points (although I did not take the time to calculate a precise ratio). </p>
<p>Having been an student like your son, I empathize with you. But I think more colleges empathize with the student who says “My GPA shows 4 years of good, hard work, how can my not testing well on one random day wipe that out?”</p>
<p>Aglages – great chart! PSU clearly states on their website that GPA is important…reinforced by this chart. Thanks!</p>
<p>re Nightchef’s comments on GPA and test scores…Don’t know if I’ve posted this quote from the UGA site on this thread yet. It’s an added twist to the GPA/SAT evaluation that includes rigor of curriculum:</p>
<p>“GPA and rigor of curriculum weigh roughly three-to-two to standardized tests in predicting academic success at UGA. Effectively, this means that a student with a 4.0 GPA in a superior curriculum of Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB) courses might be admitted with an SAT score at or below 1000. Yet, another student with a 3.0 GPA and an SAT score of 1400 might not be admitted, if the student opted for no more than a standard college prep curriculum with few if any Honors, AP or IB courses.”</p>
<p>Hello everyone - my first post on this thread.</p>
<p>My opinion is that if our kids take hard courses that challenge them, they not only will have a great learning experience - both in the subject matter and in what it takes to work hard - and will show colleges that they CARE about their education.</p>
<p>Of course I can’t speak for admissions, but I’ll say this: in the long run, isn’t this what we want our kids to learn? We all here have kids who’ve seen frustration in the results of their efforts (eg not all A’s, and everything that goes with that). They know that lesson. No, they shouldn’t take all of the hardest courses ever and get a bunch of C’s. That doesn’t help their situation, either admission-wise or in their own self-worth. Yet, if they’re at a HS like ours, the only classroom you want to be in is an honors or AP class; the rest are filled with kids doing their nails and talking about their cars. I want my kids to feel like they’re doing something worthwhile, and if they have to kick their own butts not to do badly at it, then all the better.</p>
<p>Then once they get to college, they have skills and perspective. Kids who try to pick and choose based on some kind of sure-shot are going to find out someday that it really was all a hollow game, win or lose, and they will have sacrificed years where they could have been growing instead of gambling.</p>
<p>I’m not accusing anyone of anything. We’re all worried and trying to get through this. But I liked the “I shouldn’t be judged on the output of one day of my life” comment: that showed a kid who understands life is full of experiences and details and who can stand up for himself and be proud of his choices.</p>
<p>That UGA statement is interesting, thanks.
I think the flip side of the school where in non-honors classes kids just file their nails is the hypercompetitive school where the honors class is out of Lord of the Flies, with kids constantly one-upping each other and playing up to the teacher and the kids in nonhonors classes are treated like morons.</p>
<p>I have “drank the Kool-Ade” of small LACs, but i have been impressed with how many colleges seem to be places where both the 3.0 1400 kid and the 3.3 1100 kid will get the chance to reach their potential through a nurturing school helping them find an academic passion if they have not yet, or giving them a quality education in their passion without the high school burdens of busywork assignments, years of classes in subjects which bore them; etc</p>
<p>TXMom - Your son might want to take a look at Rose-Hulman. If he is strong in math and wants computer science, he would be a good fit. They offer merit aid as well. Rose has a very good reputation. My son is a Junior there.</p>
<p>We had our “senior” meeting with my son’s GC. The good news is that my son is now in the top 25% of his class. His class rank went up a little bit and the class size increased. (not sure if that helps). His list is still a little top heavy, but the the GC thinks that one of his top 3 is very test oriented. (Let’s hope so…)</p>
<p>sorry if this was already addressed, scanned through didn’t see it…</p>
<p>When a college says they will look at the “unweighted GPA” does that mean:
Just reduce any quality points for AP or honors given by high school
reduce quality points and pull out non-academics
1 & 2 & recalculate on “their” point scale</p>
<p>or, as I’m guessing, they all do it differently.</p>
<p>D is not as concerned about getting in as about qualifying for a small merit scholarship. If GPA won’t matter, she won’t take SAT/ACT over and over to try and reach the cut-off.</p>
<p>I finally told him that he should check his college e-mail account on Friday. (He asked why and I told him he had about 25 unopened e-mails that he really should go through.) So he signs on, scans the in-box, and says, “There’s just a bunch of junk in here…”(starts reading subject lines), “S, Congratulations…oh, wait a minute” (clicks on e-mail, reads, looks over at me) “I got into Indiana?”</p>
<p>Then there was a brief moment where he smiled, and then said, “Well we knew I would get in there.” So, it was sort of anti-climactic.</p>
<p>But, at least I don’t have to keep it a secret anymore, and I know he won’t be living at home next year…lol!!</p>
<p>RTR,
Great story! Somehow parenting is often feeding the hand that bites you!
Kerrbo,
I believe you are correct, with some schools telling you exactly what they do (which they all should since it lets you calculate your chances much better). And I imagine we all wish that, just as colleges require us to give them our HS’s CEEB code, we could require them to reveal their rating of our HS when the Naviance data is scant</p>
<p>RTR, S1 said the same thing. He only applied to 3 schools (state u’s) and knew he would get in so there was no real excitement opening the letter.
He was very excited to go when the time came though and loved his sch. even though it was not hard for him to get in.</p>
<p>nightchef…too funny. Some of the best advice I had about how to get the most information out of my son came from the mom of a friend of his who is the parent of three boys. She told me that if one of her sons approaches her with some interesting piece of information, she continues to do whatever she was doing (looking at the computer, cooking, etc.) while murmuring something non-committal (“oh really?”). She said it’s the best way to get them to continue talking because if you act too interested, they just shut down!</p>
<p>RTR - My son has a list of 5 schools that he is definitely applying to. One school I believe is a safety (I would beshocked if he didn’t get in). One I believe is a match and 3 that are varying levels of reaches. </p>
<p>We are visiting Arkansas and Tennesee over Columbus break. We never made it there this summer. I believe that will be it for visits except for local schools. Unless we head back to PA. I can’t get over how many great schools are there. The closest school on his list at this point is 2 1/2 hours away. I thought that he should have at least one that was a little closer.</p>
<p>He has found a school that just is a great match for him, academically and socially. Because of his GPA it is a reach. If he applied ED then he would double his chances of acceptance. They will give an early decision on FA and guarantee to give same amount for ED or RD. He would definitely not receive merit aid. I’m torn because there are so many great schools out there and it seems so early to committ to just one. The other issue to me is whether it is worth paying $50,000 for a school. I’m sure that a lot of families wrestle with this idea. Will he really get that much more out of this school than another one where he could get merit aid?</p>
<p>kerrbo, they all do it differently. But in general if a college says they are looking at “unweighted GPA” I would assume they are taking core academics (math, english, social studies, science, foreign language) and using the grades on a strict 4.0 scale - an A = 4.0, no matter what level the class is. The most selective schools tend to go with unweighted GPA’s because if you’re not taking virtually all advanced classes they’re not going to let you in anyway. Many other colleges tend to weight using their own scales. I’ve heard of 5.0, 6.0, and one school that uses “whatever method your h.s. uses.” Most use core academics, but at least one said they include everything, so don’t fail PE. A catholic college said they include theology classes at Catholic high schools as a core academic. A state flagship said they will include one full-year elective per year in their GPA along with core academics (if you have a full-year elective). </p>
<p>Your best bet is to ask each college how they do it. Some state it on their website, some say in their info session. I emailed the admissions office at a very large school, and they wrote back with their exact weighting method. Other schools don’t really want to discuss exact methodology.</p>
<p>They do all say one thing: take the most challenging courseload that you can take successfully, and do as well as you can in it.</p>
<p>Great thread, and I totally am one of you! So please help me identify some great options, if you would!</p>
<p>My son gets B to B- grades at a very strong private school in Philly area. ACT scores likely to be around 23-24, based on practice sets.</p>
<p>Great golfer and wants to have option to play in college, either intercollegiate or club.</p>
<p>Want reasonable Jewish community and fraternities.</p>
<p>Size: 2000-9000, private or public</p>
<p>Location: NE, SE or Colorado (likes to snowboard, too!)</p>
<p>Broad curriculum with room to explore and discover new paths.</p>
<p>Desire engaging, student-centered curriculum. Active learning environments.</p>
<p>I am thinking of Muhlenberg, UDenver, U Hartford, Quinnipiac, Elon, UNC Greensboro, Guilford. Didn’t think McDaniel students were sophisticated enough by and large, but lovely people and okay campus.</p>