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<p>Immoral? Inefficient, perhaps, but immoral? That’s an odd choice of words.</p>
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<p>So you don’t allow for people to come to a different interpretation of the facts?</p>
<p>What I think is immoral is failing to investigate why we have so many people ill from exposure to the environment.
Why arent we considering that the influx of neurotoxins and other contaminants in our food and water and air are impacting the lives & livelihoods of our citizens?</p>
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<a href=“Millions Drink Tap Water That Is Legal, but Maybe Not Healthy - The New York Times”>Millions Drink Tap Water That Is Legal, but Maybe Not Healthy - The New York Times;
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<p>Actually, it would likely be very inexpensive for the college dining hall to offer only meals that were free of the common allergens (wheat, milk, nuts, peanuts, soybeans, fish, invertebrates, etc. – no cross contamination issues if none of that ever enters the kitchen), are vegan (to avoid needing special accommodations for vegetarians and vegans), and conform to various religious restrictions (easier to do with vegan food than food with meat in it).</p>
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<p>As taxpayers of the United States, it seems like we should all be in favor of removing, to the greatest degree possible, all barriers to education, employment and self sufficiency.</p>
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<p>I would be all for ADA if it did anything to improve outcomes for the disabled. But it hasn’t.</p>
<p>“Actually, it would likely be very inexpensive for the college dining hall to offer only meals that were free of the common allergens (wheat, milk, nuts, peanuts, soybeans, fish, invertebrates, etc. – no cross contamination issues if none of that ever enters the kitchen), are vegan (to avoid needing special accommodations for vegetarians and vegans), and conform to various religious restrictions (easier to do with vegan food than food with meat in it).”</p>
<p>Sounds like Food Hell to me. Might as well just go all Soylent Green.</p>
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<p>Yeah, I don’t think this is actually true. I’m pretty sure that those who now have wheelchair accessible classrooms and books for the blind and dyslexic would really disagree with you on this one. And, if there are people who are unable to attend college due to food allergies, given that colleges so frequently have dorming requirements for the first year or two, then that needs to be addressed. You can’t prevent access to education just because you’ve decided that ADA hasn’t improved outcomes.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure outcomes are completely related to access, and without access, the outcomes are much worse.</p>
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<p>You’re kidding right?</p>
<p>I would be happy with food sensitive individuals to be allowed to form a co-op dorm where they could control their food choices & not have to enter the main cafeterias.</p>
<p>The main cafeteria should label all food, but it is not practical or possible to eliminate all potential allergens from everything.</p>
<p>Students & staff must also be educated about those substances which are life threatening to others and restrict their consumption to posted areas on campus.</p>
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<p>I don’t agree with those who try to minimize the serious difficulties those with food allergies/food-driven auto-immune disorders.</p>
<p>However, I must agree with barrons et al about Ucbalumnus’ proposed universalized dining hall menu ingredients. You ARE kidding, right?</p>
<p>Here’s a thought experiment for you: it has just been discovered that common food item X causes cancer in Y % of the population. What number would Y have to be for you to agree that X should be banned from college cafeterias? Would Y change depending on what X is? (I.e., you might ban milk if it caused cancer in 1% of people, but brussels sprouts if they caused cancer in a smaller number.)</p>
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<p>You’ve got to be kidding. People can be allergic to just about everything. Once you take away wheat, milk, peanuts, soybeans, and fish, and then you eliminate all meat and meat products (such as eggs), what do you have left? Fruits and vegetables – but people can still be allergic to strawberries, pineapple, etc. I’m the mother of someone who needs to eat gluten-free, but I think it would be ridiculous to expect the entire cafeteria to be gluten-free. Our household certainly isn’t; she just eats gluten-free versions of certain foods such as bread, pasta, cereal.</p>
<p>Hunt, in your thought experiment, do people have a way of finding out whether they are in the affected population subgroup?</p>
<p>"Here’s a thought experiment for you: it has just been discovered that common food item X causes cancer in Y % of the population. What number would Y have to be for you to agree that X should be banned from college cafeterias? Would Y change depending on what X is? (I.e., you might ban milk if it caused cancer in 1% of people, but brussels sprouts if they caused cancer in a smaller number.) "</p>
<p>Simple none. People can decide if they want to eat it or not. But that is just a false choice as our data are never that accurate anyway.</p>
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<p>I strongly doubt that this is the reason. The potato was brought back from the Americas and introduced to Europe in the latter half of the 16th century.</p>
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<p>I completely agree regarding the trendiness of gluten-free foods, but there is no connection at all to low-carb eating. I am forced to adhere to a strictly low-carb way of eating in order to control T2 diabetes. By “strict,” I mean that I rarely consume more than 15 gms net carbs at a time, and aim at 60 gms per day or less. As a reference point, there are usually 25-35 gms of carb in a single slice of regular whole grain bread, well over 100 in a typical commercial wrap. Every time I ask a wrap or sandwich place if they have a low carb wrap–easily available in supermarkets–I’m offered a gluten-free one. They ALL have a gluten-free alternative. :rolleyes: Gluten-free baked goods have just as much carb as regular baked goods. Of course, they have been taught that if someone has T2 it is their own fault, unlike those fashionable gluten-intolerant people, so why make the slightest effort for us? (Note that Fresh City, a highway rest stop place owned by MacDonalds is the ONLY place I have found with a burrito made in a low carb wrap that actually lists the carbs in the whole thing. It is still high for me, but I do eat them when I’m driving to CT. Thanks be to the Charlton rest stop on the Mass Pike! If McD’s can make the effort, would it kill our local burrito place to buy a package? They last forever.)</p>
<p>I may complain about the lack of low carb alternatives in some places, but if I choose to eat 35 gms of carb at one sitting once in a while it isn’t going to kill me. (As long as I don’t make a habit of it.) Eating something cross-contaminated with peanut oil would, however, kill my niece.</p>
<p>BTW, IMHO requiring kids with peanut allergies or celiac or whatever to purchase the college meal plan is kind of like requiring the blind students to purchase the textbooks.</p>
<p>Whats with the “pie in the sky” banning of foodstuffs?
Its never going to happen because there is probably a big lobby to insure that we keep subsidizing its production.</p>
<p>Lets start at a managable goal.
Labeling what is in food.
[Increased</a> use of genetically modified crops which are more resistant to increased use pesticides & herbicides. Yum.](<a href=“Dispute Over Labeling of Genetically Modified Food - The New York Times”>Dispute Over Labeling of Genetically Modified Food - The New York Times)
[Pesticide</a> use ramping up as GMO crop technology backfires: study | Reuters](<a href=“http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/02/us-usa-study-pesticides-idUSBRE89100X20121002]Pesticide”>http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/02/us-usa-study-pesticides-idUSBRE89100X20121002)</p>
<p>Wholesale bans of items is largely impractical, although my elementary school has a defacto peanut ban because it was easier than any other plan. And large kitchens/food service keep all sorts of foods segregated, so applying safe food practices to cross-contamination is actually pretty simple, once it’s decided to do it. Cutting-edge colleges are already doing this, as are schools. Insisting “it won’t work” is simply not true; it’s working all over the place. But some organizations do their visioning purely on legal grounds, not with innovation or flexibility in mind. So here comes ADA. </p>
<p>It’s not about making the rest of the world eat like we do. It’s about making it possible for us to eat – much of the time, not all of it — like the rest of the world. If you are going make me pay the same as everyone else, I reasonably expect more-or-less the equivalent product. If you can only provide a substantially less comprehensive and nutritious product, I don’t reasonably want to pay the same. This is how menus work!</p>
<p>Seems like people are enjoying wrestling up a straw man, suggesting this ruling bans all allergens from being served in a college cafeteria. That’s ridiculous. It’s all about a college being required to provide a safe menu for students whose food allergy rises to the level of a disability. These students are paying for an education, they’re paying for a food service they’re often required to accept – what could possibly be the problem with this? They were getting ripped off before, and there was no way they could fight it! The ADA ruling gives them some leverage besides put up and shut up, starve or risk dying. </p>
<p>And yes, I believe it is TRUE patriotism to make sure the promise of America – equal access, equal opportunity for ALL Americans, is a reality. Relying on the “better angels” of people’s humanity is – as we’ve seen in this thread – markedly unreliable. Ahhh yes, it’s been 11 long homeschooling years since my dd was carried out of kindergarten in an ambulance, going into shock and cardiac arrest because people didn’t care about her bs allergy… but now I remember the spite and anger of the other parents directed at her (and us) because the kids in her class had to wash their hands when they came in after lunch (horrors!) and we had the temerity to ask the PTA for a holiday party snack for her class that wouldn’t, you know, kill her… (NO!Must have what everyone else has! They wouldn’t even allow Santa to give her a pencil <em>we provided</em> instead of a candy cane… a five year old! When Santa was bluntly told, “she doesn’t get anything” <em>his</em> eyes welled up and he snuck her a little comic book later.) Yes, the bitterness comes washing back… I had almost forgotten what people were like… </p>
<p>Proudpatriot, I find the claim the ADA has not helped people absolutely gobsmacking. I cannot imagine how you have come to that conclusion. </p>
<p>And one more thing… “stupid” is a harsh word, but the repeated mantra “Just don’t eat it!” is just so <em>stupid</em>. And so is the assumption that severe food allergy doesn’t affect how one lives one’s life in a dramatic way. Imagine if you will, that cyanide only poisons one person in a hundred (about the incidence of peanut allergy.) Doesn’t bother anyone else, people actually like it – and use it a lot, and it’s in a lot of foods. Can’t see it, though. But there it is, smeared invisibly on the lunch tables, on the trays, on the hands that use the keyboard before the sensitive person, on the scissors and brushes in art class, in the air where a table of people have been snacking, on the beakers and ring stands in chemistry class, on the books in the library – hey sensitive person, just don’t breathe or lick a fingertip to turn a page and you won’t die… Can you imagine being that person? Can you imagine their life, what bravery it takes to just be in a public space, especially around people eating? </p>
<p>And if it seems to you to be too much to ask for a college student to be able to work up a plan with their school to have safe foods provided on their meal plan, I’d just ask you to try to work up a little compassion for people who are dealing with a situation that is difficult beyond what you can comprehend.</p>
<p>* yes, it’s been 11 long homeschooling years since my dd was carried out of kindergarten in an ambulance, going into shock and cardiac arrest because people didn’t care about her bs allergy*</p>
<p>Are you saying that she had an epi-pen & no one used it?
That is scary!</p>