<p>Rodney, one thing “we” don’t know is how many of those kids from those super tough grade deflated schools apply to Michigan with an intent to attend. All college fish where the fishing is good. They want kids that are going to attend, are going to thrive and are going to graduate. The candidate that is hurt from a high school public or private is the one that has kids that apply every year and never send anyone or a school that sends kids and all of them struggle academically. Why did applications surge when Michigan went to the common app? Why did applications surge when Chicago went to the common app? Because it’s easier for kids to check the box with no real research and recycle essays and those statements that can really tell admissions officers students are serious about their applications. If you really want to attend it might be worth the effort to create a new version of the common app and TELL Michigan why you want to go there instead of recycling a statement that tells Duke, Cornell, etc. etc. why you want to attend. All things being equal colleges want kids that want them. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Along this same line, what role does the admission counselor play at Michigan? Do they really read the applications? When a student emails their regional admissions rep to say they have visited the school and maintain interest after being deferred what role does that counselor play? If it is true that colleges are really “want kids that want them” then the regional counselors should be making sure the level of interest a student shows gets into their application package. Does that happen at Michigan?</p>
<p>racial/ethnic status : not considered</p>
<p>okay michigan</p>
<p>does anybody know if the data set for coe is released separately?</p>
<p>also, interestingly 41% of this year’s freshman are oos. i wonder if this will continue to increase or if michigan will try to make it closer to 35% as it has been previously.</p>
<p>good points momofthree, there are obviously some applicants using the school as a “safety” (although I would never term UM a safety; it is truly an elite top-ranked University w/many programs of study among the best in the nation, very often Top 5-10). Still some applicants have simply recycled an essay written for another university, evidenced little or no passion for the school, are unfamiliar w/its programs, simply check another box on the Common App. and pay the $60-$70. They are usually pretty easy to discern. However, there is an entire class of applicants w/very strong stats who would love to attend UM, have it in their top two or three possible choices and are very familiar w/the pitfalls of taking any essay or any college for granted. Some of these students work for weeks on their essays and have thoroughly researched UM, visited campus, and even e-mailed professors in their intended area of interest. And yet, because of a “low” UW GPA in a rigorous program of study combined w/a Top 5% or Top 10% class rank and SATs well above 2000 or even 2100, get deferred. And by low UW GPA I mean 3.6, w/7-10 APS courses, 4s and 5 s on all AP tests taken, etc. </p>
<p>Now we don’t know about the specific essays, ECs or LORs–but students know the rules, and generally work very hard to maintain strong ECs and go to the classes they shine in for the LORs. Maybe they don’t live in Montana or S. Dakota. I’m sure the process is not random, but it may feel that way. Again, for anybody who wants class rank and course rigor as a PRIME determinant in admission—the elite LACs are a place to focus IMO.</p>
<p>good points momofthree, there are obviously some applicants using the school as a “safety” (although I would never term UM a safety; it is truly an elite top-ranked University w/many programs of study among the best in the nation, very often Top 5-10). Still some applicants have simply recycled an essay written for another university, evidenced little or no passion for the school, are unfamiliar w/its programs, simply check another box on the Common App. and pay the $60-$70. They are usually pretty easy to discern. However, there is an entire class of applicants w/very strong stats who would love to attend UM, have it in their top two or three possible choices and are very familiar w/the pitfalls of taking any essay or any college for granted. Some of these students work for weeks on their essays and have thoroughly researched UM, visited campus, and even e-mailed professors in their intended area of interest. And yet, because of a “low” UW GPA in a rigorous program of study combined w/a Top 5% or Top 10% class rank and SATs well above 2000 or even 2100, get deferred. And by low UW GPA I mean 3.6, w/7-10 APS courses, 4s and 5 s on all AP tests taken, etc. </p>
<p>Now we don’t know about the specific essays, ECs or LORs–but students know the rules, and generally work very hard to maintain strong ECs and go to the classes they shine in for the LORs. Maybe they don’t live in Montana or S. Dakota. I’m sure the process is not random, but it may feel that way. Again, for anybody who wants class rank and course rigor as a PRIME determinant in admission—the elite LACs are a place to focus IMO.</p>
<p>pleaseadvise, the point of the interview is to answer questions applicatants may have about Cornell and to show applicants alumni involvement. Supposedly, such things improve the yield. In my 5 years as chair of the UAE CAAAN, I have seldom interviewed a student (and I interviewed over 100) who did not show passion for their intended major or knowledge of Cornell’s curricular or extracurricular offerings.</p>
<p>As for Chicago and USC interviews, those must be requested by the applicant, so they are not part of a “holistic” system. Unless a university contacts students and interviews all applicants, I do not consider the interview part of a holistic application process. </p>
<p>I can see how a parent could be impressed by a university taking the interview initiatives, and that is the desired effect; impress applicants and their parents. But I can say that most universities do not regard the interview as a decision-making criterion, unless the interview was a disaster.</p>
<p>I hear you rodney, but class rank is not necessarily telling either. Some schools are so competitive that even students ranked in the second quartile are stellar. I know that Michigan admissions tries to ascertain the strength of a school’s curriculum and student boy. Michigan looks over the school profile and other details before making its decision. But like I said, universities notice different things and value different things. Just because applicants get into a peer institution such as Cornell, Northwestern or Penn but not Michigan does not mean Michigan made a mistake. Michigan will reject students students of the highest caliber simply because it cannot admit all of them.</p>
<p>so to follow the logic Alexandre, if the interview is not a decision-making criterion, unless it is a disaster–then there is no upside to interviewing, and if offered or requested by the institution it should be turned down by the applicant. It is nothing more than a dog and pony show to impress applicants and their parents.</p>
<p>if I wasn’t heretofore cynical about the entire application process being little more than a “Kabui Dance”, I sure am now. “Dance for grandma little applicant, dance, dance dance.”.</p>
<p>“It is nothing more than a dog and pony show to impress applicants and their parents.”</p>
<p>It certainly worked wonders on you. ;)</p>
<p>Seriously, many on CC revere all things private and frown on all things public. The fact is, private universities spend 10-15 minutes on each applicant. I don’t know how “holistic” a university can be if they dedicate 10-15 minutes per applicant. My experience with Cornell interviews has been clear. Not all applicants are interviewed and interviews have very little to no impact on admissions.</p>
<p>I would say that the unweighted GPA as an isolated criterion is valued much higher at Michigan than it is at the top private schools who view it more in context with course rigor and class rank. A student with a 3.3 UW GPA at Phillips Exeter with a 2350 SAT score has a greater chance of getting into Penn than Michigan. Granted his/her chances at both schools are almost nil but Penn is more likely to overlook the dreadful transcript with everything else on the table is outstanding.</p>
<p>BTW, Chicago and Duke definitely do interviews while Stanford does not. The interview is a good way for an applicant to learn more about the university in question from the perspective of someone who actually attended but its role in the admissions process is more of a “tip factor”.</p>
<p>Alexandre, we had an experience with a Cornell alumni interview this past fall. My son applied to the Cornell Industrial Labor Relations school early decision. Thanksgiving week he got a call from an alum requesting an interview. He was excited, even though we did some research and were pretty sure this was an info type session and had little or nothing to do with admissions. The “interview” was great-the alum really liked my son and used the time to totally try to sell my son on Cornell, even though he had applied ED and so no hard sell was necessary! He finished up by saying he had done a lot of interviews, and that my son had an excellent chance at admission, etc. My son was actually blown away by the interviewer’s enthusiasm for him. Well, you can guess what happened-he didn’t get in. I don’t blame the alum-he obviously liked my son, and he must not have known how small the ILR school is and how few spots are available in each class (which we knew, but didn’t fully appreciate until going through the numbers after our son got his rejection). The point is that I can see how people (parents and applicants) get excited over these interviews but they do need to know they are pretty much, as you said, an opportunity for the applicant to learn more about the school and see the alumni network. There is a happy ending though as my son was admitted to U of M and was deferred at U of Chicago (he is keeping his hopes up!).</p>
<p>we’ll happily take “tip factors” and outside chances. congrats shs1975 UM is a terrific school, one of the very best.</p>
<p>Thanks pleaseadvise, and believe me we are very happy and relieved.</p>