New evidence on how to calculate weighted grades for AP & honors

Parents Forum
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<p>This comes from AP: A Critical Examination of the Advanced Placement Program, a new book to be published by Harvard Education Press:</p>

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students who take honors courses ought to receive an extra half-point on a grade-point-average scale of 1 to 4, while AP courses ought to be worth an extra point, and an extra 2 points if students pass the exam.

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<p>That sounds too generous, but they based it on the higher grades students earned in their college science courses after taking AP or honors in high school. I wonder if colleges will begin to use these results in how they weight GPAs in the admissions process.</p>

<p>Comparing these recommendations to the way our high school calculates grades, my S was shortchanged in the weighting process since our school just adds 5% for honors and 10% for AP courses.</p>

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Growing out of a symposium held at Harvard in 2007, the book focuses on AP science courses in particular and offers evidence on whether they give students an academic edge in college or persuade them to earn degrees in science-related fields. It examines whether the bonus points that colleges and high schools assign to students’ AP grades are warranted, if the program shortens the time it takes to earn a degree, and whether just expanding access to the college-level courses is enough to prepare disadvantaged students for college. . . . .</p>

<p>“I think it’s the only article I’ve seen that provides evidence for how to calculate high school GPAs,” Mr. Sadler said of his study. “Everywhere else, they just use a rule of thumb.”</p>

<p>Mr. Sadler suggests, however, that college-admissions officials use caution in adopting his scale, to avoid penalizing students from schools where AP classes may not be available.

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<p>There’s more interesting stuff in this book, including studies that suggest AP courses do not appreciably shorten the time needed to earn a college degree.</p>

<p>Education</a> Week: Book Trains Critical Eye on AP Program's Impact</p>

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<p>I find the idea that a high school AP course is equivalent to a course taken at the college level becomes somewhat preposterous when you read of kids “self-studying” for an AP exam by reading a Barron’s prep book. Really? That’s all a college course in, say, psychology gives you? The equivalent of the contents of a Barron’s prep book? </p>

<p>And there are schools in DC where every kid is required to take AP English. If every high school student, regardless of level or ability, is enrolled…doesn’t that make it high school English? Aren’t college classes taught with the assumption that the students have already taken, and passed, preparatory classes at the high school level? </p>

<p>It doesn’t surprise me that kids re-take the same classes in college that they took in AP in high school…and get, on average, a B, according to this article. If these were really college-level classes, the kids should be going to the next-level course and succeeding as if they’d taken the entry-level in college.</p>

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<p>^ Yes, but those B averages are higher than those of their non-AP peers.</p>

<p>I may be wrong, but I think there is widespread agreement that most AP courses are less rigorous than their college-level counterparts. However, the study results do show that AP courses add value, giving students an advantage when they retake the course in college.</p>

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<p>My school was even more shortchanged, because we got a 0% raise for honors and 0% for APs. </p>

<p>The idea that an extra point needs to be offered to those who pass (which I assume is a 4 or 5?) is pretty ridiculous. I don’t know about everywhere else (and thinking about it, this must happen because a lot of people do get less than 4s on the AP test), but at my school if you couldn’t pass the AP test, you wouldn’t have passed the class (atleast for most classes). Maybe if you just had a really bad day on the day of the AP test, but otherwise…</p>

<p>I’m a supporter of “Look at the transcript and don’t admit based off of two 4-digit numbers.”</p>

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<p>Just out of curiosity - does this book make any comments about IB classes? Or does it strictly limit the discussion to AP?</p>

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<p>Our school weights based on 0.5 extra for honors and 1 point for AP’s.</p>

<p>I think whether an AP course is equivalent to a college course depends on the subject, and the teacher. I easily tested out of a one semester composition course all freshmen had to take with AP English test. My D took AP stats, tested out of a semester in college. She is now in the second semester college stat class and said she learned much of it in the high school class. My first college psych class was all lecture and multiple choice tests, I’m sure it could have been covered by a prep book! Our social studies AP classes are quite rigorous, I think the year-long high school class could compare to a semester college course also.</p>

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<p>We were told that college taking UW and calculated W, taking into consideration the HS itself. It must be true, otherwise how HS’s with very few AP’s and not weighting Honors will compete with others? Actually, very strong academically private schools often offer very few AP’s as some of their regular classes are higher level than AP’s and using college books. They are way ahead of others in college admision, with some placing 100% into 4 year colleges every year with good number going to Ivy’s and other Elite colleges and very selective programs.</p>

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<p>I don’t schools should weight at all. Just use a 4 point scale and let the school profile and transcript tell the story.</p>

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<p>^That is how it is done anyway by college admissions. So, all these weighted worries are for nothing. Just take the most rigorous curriculum and get all A’s or whatever the best you can, and it will work. Playing games with constructing schedules based of best weighted GPA will not do you any good, admissions will see it right away.</p>

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<p>^^ That is what our schools do - regardless of Regular, Honors or AP everyone is graded on a 4.0 scale. They have another (very convoluted) system to calculate class rank however based on the number of honors and AP classes have been taken.</p>

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<p>Our sons’ school gives an extra point for Honors and AP (A =5.0, B =4.0) etc. Freshmen are limited to four honors core classes (LA, science, math, SS.) Sophomores may take four core honors and one TAG (LA or science) but only four count toward the weighted grade. Juniors and seniors may take as many honors, AP and IB as they like, however, only five can count toward the weighted grade. (Our son took five as sophomore, six as a junior and will take seven of eight next year.) </p>

<p>This worked out fine until the school decided that EVERY student had to take at least one honors class as a freshman. That pretty much dumbed down the honors program, but the weighting stayed, causing obvious grade inflation. (D’s in honors classes, however, don’t get the extra point.)</p>

<p>Then they added IB classes this year for the junior class. Approximately 60 students out of 400 are taking at least one IB class. After the first month, several students dropped out of the IB classes and went back to honors. One of them is now ranked #1 in the class, despite having taken NO AP or IB classes for three years.</p>

<p>The IB parents are fairly up in arms about this since rank is a frequent criteria in admission. And historically, being in the top 10 of this high school’s graduating class is a big deal in this community. Special luncheon sponsored by civic groups, special cords for the robes, photos in the paper, etc. And have a non-IB, no-AP student as valedictorain in 2011 will be a big joke for a school that is proud of its progress in college prepartory classes.</p>

<p>I’ve been asked to be part of a parent group that will recommend a different weight scale for IB classes to the school board. If any of you have plans that work well, I’d love to hear them.</p>

<p>FYI: We are a public school in a Midwestern town of 70,000. 1,600 students in 9-12. The school sends maybe five students a year to competitive colleges. (One EA admit to Stanford this year so far.) 75% of graduates attend college but the majority of those stay in town to the state “directional” university or go to state schools no more than three hours away.</p>

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<p>I believe an AP “pass” is considered a 3 or above.</p>

<p>S2’s HS provides a profile that describes the HS. It does not weight. Honors calculus based physics is listed as the most difficult course in the school even though the school offers many AP science and other courses. I inquired about this and was told that the physics teacher (a PhD former engineer and physicist) teaches the course a true college course. Students are warned going in that it will be a difficult course and the school offers other physics courses. Not all honors courses are less rigorous than AP courses. The profile is a good way of letting colleges know this, and that class rank cannot be used to evaluate students. In S1’s year the school had 44 vals.</p>

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<p>one problem with weighting</p>

<p>A specialized magnet school may offer advanced courses in specialized areas, that are as difficult as AP classes, but are not AP because there simply isn’t an AP test available. Creates incentives that harm those specialized courses. </p>

<p>“Is this the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, or the Thomas Jefferson High School for Advanced Placement?”</p>

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<p>idad, that is how “our” public high school does it also. No weighting. “Most difficult” class in the school is not an AP class. Profile is clear about which classes are the “most difficult.” Pretty straightforward and was originally “geared” toward what U of M needed. It will be interesting to see if they change anything in light of UofM’s policy switch.</p>

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<p>Just think - Jethro Bodine could have actually become a brain surgeon if he’d only had Cliff Notes</p>

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<p>This is a valid concern. S’s GPA has always been moderate – but he’s taken the toughest path the school has to offer. I’d have to say I wince when I see his class rank. I am quite sure he is smarter (and nicer!) than several “above” him. Hopefully teacher recs do make a difference. But GPA plus IB doesn’t pencil out looking that great when there are students with 4.0 and no IB ranked above all the 3.9 IB kids.</p>

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I agree that AP curricula are not very rigorous, but your reasoning is illogical. There’s no reason a textbook is inherently better than a prep book.</p>

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<p>But, noimagination, if the textbook is ALL THERE IS to your (by which I mean, a person’s) college classes–there’s nothing additional that you get from lectures, from discussions in seminars, from labs, from actually researching and writing the papers–then you should consider transferring to a better college. </p>

<p>I, too, think that the fact that a kid somewhere can prepare for an AP exam with only test-prep books is reason to look with suspicion on the whole idea of AP’s.</p>

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<p>^ Learning styles are subjective. I learn best from reading a text and visualizing it.</p>

<p>Of course, you are right that a course should offer more than just a text. But that often is not the case in US public high schools.</p>

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<p>Sad but true.</p>