New here, and wondering why all the alcohol is allowed on campus

<p>Here is an article about college drinking and the difference at a Canadian university where the legal drinking age is 18. It is six years old but still an interesting take on the subject. </p>

<p>[Drinking</a> outside the box](<a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/reporter/38/01/drinking/]Drinking”>http://www.mcgill.ca/reporter/38/01/drinking/)</p>

<p>Drinking outside the box
A U.S. journalist finds McGill students have a mature attitude towards booze
Vanessa Farquharson</p>

<p>After years of reporting on the White House for Time magazine, Barrett Seaman decided to retire and head back to school. He ended up going to a dozen universities across North America, but he never enrolled in any courses. Instead, he hung out in residences, studying the students. </p>

<p>His findings, which mostly revolve around alcohol, drugs and sex, are collected in a book called Binge: What Your College Student Won’t Tell You (Wiley, $33.99). </p>

<p>“It was kinda like lying around and seeing the dark side of the moon from a different perspective,” says Seaman over the phone from New York. </p>

<p>“I never use the word ‘shocked’ in the book because I really wasn’t,” says Seaman. "But I was surprised at the intensity with which students drank. I drank in college and I still drink, but in the four years I was at Hamilton [College in Clinton, New York], there was only one instance where someone had to go to the hospital, and that was a big deal. </p>

<p>“Now it’s routine. In one weekend at Hamilton, seven students were hospitalized. Harvard had 44 go in two months. That’s a lot of people being taken to hospital for alcohol abuse.” </p>

<p>But not all universities had the same problems. McGill University, the one Canadian school Seaman visited because of its high enrollment of American students, left the most positive impression on him in terms of student drinking. </p>

<p>“If nothing else convinced me of the counterproductive effects of American drinking laws on college life,” he writes in Binge, “my experience at McGill University in Montreal did.” </p>

<p>“The students at McGill took alcohol in stride,” he says. “It was there, it was available; they didn’t feel the need to drink as much as possible because they knew they could get it anywhere. I made a point of talking to the Americans there — I didn’t just want to say, ‘Canadians are better at this’ — and they would say how blown away they were by faculty handing them beers in the first week of school. So most would overindulge, along with the Canadians, but by the time mid-terms rolled around, they’d buckle down.” </p>

<p>Flo Tracy, who’s been McGill’s director of housing for 26 years and who spoke to Seaman during his stay there, says Quebec’s lower drinking age of 18, as opposed to the average of 21 in the U.S., is partly to credit for the healthier relationship her students have with alcohol. </p>

<p>“But,” she adds, “the big thing is that we create a safe space — a community where one doesn’t have to prove oneself as much.” </p>

<p>Recently, Tracy began training the dons and floor fellows who will be living with and monitoring September’s influx of new students. She brought pizza, pop and beer to about 50 people in the session. </p>

<p>“I had three cases of beer, and told them they could take what they wanted,” she recalls. “There was a whole case left over.” </p>

<p>Tracy says the secret to steering students away from alcoholism lies in understanding the psyche of an 18-year-old. </p>

<p>“Our basic management philosophy is respect,” she says. "We don’t have a lot of the ‘Thou shalt not’ rules. Balance is important. We know these students are not angels, they’re away from home for the first time and if there are rules they’re going to break them. </p>

<p>“Those of us in the senior positions actually understand the students — we live with them, move with them and support them. They have direct access to us, and a healthy respect for us. I won’t hesitate to put my foot down, but I’ll have a beer with them, too.” Seaman writes that McGill assumes its students are adults and treats them as such, whereas many U.S. universities, especially the Ivy League ones, will coddle students throughout their academic careers. And yet, there’s a mounting disconnect between faculty and students, to the point where many schools’ presidents have no idea how much drinking is actually happening. When they do act, it’s often through extreme and ineffective measures. </p>

<p>“Huge crackdowns, abolishing fraternities, enforcing dry zones — none of that works,” says Seaman, who remembers one dean who went to bed each night praying he wouldn’t wake up with a dead student on his hands. </p>

<p>But the other reason Seaman thinks McGill, and Canadian universities on the whole, see fewer incidences of alcohol abuse is because there isn’t such a prevalent all-or-nothing mentality. </p>

<p>“McGill students’ priorities are so different from those at American schools,” he says. “There are good athletic teams at McGill, but it’s not such a big deal. Intramural sports are a huge thing, but it’s the reverse in the U.S. Football games at McGill will often only be a third full; it’s not that they don’t care, it’s just not as important in their lives. But on a football Saturday at Wisconsin, people start drinking the day before.”</p>

<p>“The thing is, there are smart ways of drinking and there are stupid ways of drinking,” Seaman says. “If you can get more people drinking smartly, you’re going to have a safer campus.” </p>

<p>Reprinted with permission from the National Post, Tuesday, August 16, 2005.</p>

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<p>I’m talking high school…no excuses that parents shouldn’t know what is going on. Most of the time when my kid comes home on the weekend, I’m awake. That’s all it takes…think he will stumble in drunk?</p>

<p>Cross=posted with136 on-definitely some passion here! GREAT posts from tomofboston and Nrdsb- answering the OP.</p>

<p>These rather vicious posts are not on topic. No one here is claiming their kids do not drink, have never had a drink.
I am upset about the current drinking culture in colleges today. I am also wondering about why it goes on, as drinking is against the law for many college students. That is what this thread is about.</p>

<p>Where is the proof that naive or trusting or rule/law-following parents’ kids get drunk more often, binge drink more, engage in risky behavior more often, anyway?
I think plenty of the binge-drinkers have parents who tolerate, even expect and condone illegal underage drinking . I do not see a cause or effect.</p>

<p>I am just concerned that the law is not working because it is promoting a generally poor moral attitude while dangerous binge-drinking continues.</p>

<p>Where is the evidence that moderation and exposure in the home to alcohol really do prevent the binge style of drinking?
Where is the proof that the older drinking age is the problem?</p>

<p>I think there are plenty of anecdotes in all directions, but is there any research? Why is the problem so bad in the UK where the drinking age IS 18? Why is is getting worse in Europe?
OR
Is this really about the relatively new casual sex culture (hooking up, experimenting with sexual preferences, etc.), causing kids feel a lot of pressure to get rid of inhibitions and low esteem issues in coed social situations? If so, that is what needs to be worked on/changed. Freedom is a lot of responsibility.</p>

<p>I am just plain curious. The situation is untenable.</p>

<p>I think that the age 18-22 is a very complicated time. These are NOT fully developed, wise, self controlled adults. Yet they fight in wars, vote, marry, have kids, can keep parents and other adults out of their health care…</p>

<p>Our society is having a hard time dealing with this age-group, for sure.</p>

<p>As a parent, I have found it very complicated, in addition, because each family has its own rules and attitudes to all this stuff. It is mighty tough on the kids and our relationships with them as they go through this phase- they can always point to some kid who has been doing it, or whose parent allow them to, IT being whatever is being debated at the time that maybe you wish your child would not do. I am including things like not keeping in touch with parents throughout an evening, not letting a friend who has been drinking drive, not entering a place where there is a party and substances and no adults anywhere, etc.</p>

<p>There are so many mixed messages for this age-group in our society, in our communities in our colleges, in law enforcement, in the definition of adult, and in what this age group is capable of being responsible for. Yes, life is always a little muddy, but I think we could clean this up a bit.</p>

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<p>I for one do not know what my kids are doing all the time, but I hope what I have taught them that they are making good choices most of the time. I also do not need to or want to know what my 18+ year old adult kids are doing all the time.</p>

<p>*My original question (post 32) was WHY it’s so very important for college age kids to consume the crappy booze and brews that they usually choose, when it’s against the law for them to do so. *</p>

<p>Your post was actually #31 & I answered your question in post 32- which you didn’t acknowledge. </p>

<p>Here is a link.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1277181-new-here-wondering-why-all-alcohol-allowed-campus-3.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1277181-new-here-wondering-why-all-alcohol-allowed-campus-3.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>geeps, I believe most of us were referring to college age kids, as that was the subject of the original post and underage college binge drinking has been taking up most of the space on this thread.</p>

<p>tomofboston - thanks for the post.</p>

<p>“I’m talking high school…no excuses that parents shouldn’t know what is going on. Most of the time when my kid comes home on the weekend, I’m awake. That’s all it takes…think he will stumble in drunk?”</p>

<p>“Hi, mom/dad, I’m sleeping over at X/Y’s house tonight,” which is why these kids end up being taken to ER by an adult who is not their parent.</p>

<p>How is binge drinking being defined?</p>

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<p>[Binge</a> Drinking](<a href=“http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/BingeDrinking.html]Binge”>http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/BingeDrinking.html)</p>

<p>Easy solution, eb- no sleepovers. Why are they necessary?!! I sussed out that one very quickly…</p>

<p>Nice to see some parents here raising there kids in such a protective bubble. </p>

<p>Please come back in 5, 10 or 20 years and let us know how that’s working for you.</p>

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<p>just proves my point that bad parenting is involved</p>

<p>^ Perfomersmom, that is a perfect recipe, imo, for the kid who goes off to college and gets drunk as a skunk at the first opportunity. </p>

<p>Two high school kids doing an overnight at my DS school this fall had to be taken to the hospital.</p>

<p>performersmom - I believe your kid is at a boarding school. D1 went to a local prep school where kids could live as far as 1+ hour away fom each other. On weekends when they got together, it was safer for them to sleep over than to drive home. It is also a very normal American culture to sleep over at each other’s house. D1 went to many co-ed sleep over parties.</p>

<p>“just proves my point that bad parenting is involved.”</p>

<p>Oy.</p>

<p>GA2012…there is a difference between “bubble” and being an involved parent who knows what is going on. My kids certainly don’t live in a bubble, but certainly aren’t going to be able to outsmart their dad…not in high school…not a chance.</p>

<p>^ that is the funniest thing I’ve read all day.</p>

<p>^glad I was able to amuse you…but it’s true</p>

<p>^</p>

<p>You would be AMAZED geeps at the crap HS kids can pull over their parents eyes. </p>

<p>Glad to see you have on blinders.</p>

<p>^ I’m well aware of what some kids do…no blinders here…</p>

<p>Now why would you be glad to think I have blinders on…that wouldn’t be very nice.</p>