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Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>My mom and her family accompanied my uncle to his I-Day in 1962.
I've never done real Sea Trials, just the 8-hour sampler sea trials at Summer Seminar, but I wouldn't have wanted parents watching that. There was actually some sort of conference going on in Michelson and Chauvenet and they were on some sort of break while my company was at Ingram Field. That was pretty annoying and they weren't even our parents.</p>

<p>As for tourists... when my CVW ended on Saturday there were so many tourists all over the Yard and the line at Drydock was half an hour long. I was pretty ticked off 'cause I had just come from 4 hours pt w/o breakfast. But you can't keep the tourists out... it's the nation's academy and their tax dollars are paying for it (besides, of course, the foreign tourists).</p>

42

<p>Sea Trials were not open to parents in 2004. It seems it was only the last couple of years, but I am not certain. USNA09Mom? Did they have it open to parents in 2005?</p>

43

<p>It was open to parents in 05.<br>
Actually, I think it became a bit mor eorganized in '05 as a result of a few parents showing up for '04 to watch.
Same as with PEP; a few parents showed up to watch--the same as any member of the public could do--and in '05 it became somewhat more formalized, i.e. parents were invited.</p>

44

<p>I'm an '84 grad, and some parents came to the oath for I-Day. Mine did not, but we were "new" to the whole USNA thing. It was a blessing for me because I beat the "gauntlet" back to my room after the oath of office. A Napster had clued me in to a quick exit from the oath and back to the room. Spared me ten extra minutes of "Welcome to Hell," type treatment... ;)</p>

<p>We did have a FPW in the Fall of my Firstie Year (1983), and we had a great time with our parents, but there was very little Academy-organized activity as I recall. I think lunch in King Hall was the "highlight", and then the football game, tailgate and "after party" were a lot of fun for our folks. Most of them did not not know each other up until that point. No internet back then...</p>

<p>It made commissioning week that much more fun because now our parents had at least been acquainted.</p>

45

<p>Apparently she said something different to 2nd reg. though. I heard she said to them that we would be practicing or something. I was talking to people about it and we all came the consensus that if we had to watch 300 of out classmates climb herndon there wouldn't be a fence big enough to keep us away from that monument.</p>

46

<p>JackTraveler: I did not think the Class of 2011 would just sit and watch a few classmates climb Herndon. One for all and all for one!!!</p>

47

<p>As I sit hear reading over these posts, I am feeling increasingly fortunate that we DID get to see our Mid....and the class of 2010- take the Oath of Office... that we got to see what his summer experience had been like at PPW, that we got to meet other parents and company mates (and start our process of putting some faces to names!).... that we got to witness sea trials (quietly, from a respectful distance and with appreciative applause at the end of revolutions) ... that we got to cheer at herndon (injury free from all that I could see)...that we got to experience the Plebe recognition ceremony....such a proud moment when they reaffirmed their oath of office in their summer whites..... that we got to "pin on" youngster shoulder boards....</p>

<p>may seem like "secondary, optional and conditional" moments in time, but to parents, it is those moments that we will carry with us for the rest of our lives as we move closer and closer to the day we send them off to their destinations....</p>

<p>This is not a singular endeavor. While I understand fully it is each Mid's journey to travel, parents remain more than witnesses to the journey. And I "do get" the mission.</p>

<p>Please do not bombard me with "helo" parent, meddling mom comments, etc.</p>

<p>Instead, let me relay another story.</p>

<p>We went to our first military ball last year. Our club lost Lt Winchester in an attack in Afghanastan. The club was presenting a new scholarship, in his name, and a sword called the "Winchester Sword" to his family. His mom got up to speak. I have never, ever, witnessed such a heart-wrenching event. She struggled through her comments- not sure why God had befalled her this fate- her only son. Trying, so desperatly and valently, to accept it as His will. She regretted not attending the ball "with him while he was alive".... she was holding tight to EVERY memory she had of the time they did have together from his years at the Academy- I venture to say, as a widow, it was all she had left to hold on to--- and she clutched those memories so tighly- and painfully tried to share some of them with us. There was not a dry eye in the place- no one was spared her pain and anguish.</p>

<p>She told us how she "regretted" not attending the ball before, while he was alive, to dance with him when the Mids were asked to find their moms for a spin on the floor. She shared how she wished she could rewind time. When she could go on no longer, she sat down, alone. The mids in the room lined up, each in turn requesting to dance with her, and to each she sadly declined, saying her heart was broken and she no longer had the joy within her to dance without him to hold her.</p>

<p>So while some may find these activites "seconday, optional and conditional," there are some that will find them priceless..... and some that will be left with these memories alone. </p>

<p>trivial? I don't think so.
Parents a distraction? Unfortunate.</p>

<p>I suggest another path.</p>

<p>Embrace parents.
We are just as much a part of this journey as our sons and daughters, that we turn over to the military to safeguard.
Let us share what we can, while we can.
Does it really make that much of a difference if we watch a tug of war during sea trials? Will it really be that much of a distraction to the extent that our Mids will not be able to function, either with or without the audience, when their time comes in the fleet? Or in the desert sands? Who is to say that these memories will carry them forward and on to even greater heights when it really counts! If there is concern that the parents may act incorrectly- then educate us! Give us the "rules" and you will get the cooperation! Simple enough.... just involves the effort of communication!</p>

<p>I have been in charge of a coronary ICU for over 2 decades- easy to "suggest" to visitors (family) that our "high technical care" requires us to "limit" their presence at the bedside. You know what? It's a bunch of bull. So I opened the doors- 24/7- over 2 decades ago- and for years have watched not our patients having negative outcomes, but BETTER outcomes because they had the support from the very people involved and important in their lives. Controversal? sure- to some. Surprisingly, the hardest sell was to the nurses who had to adjust- to learn to work around families- to embrace them as an integral part of caring for their patients. They did, and our outcomes- and their attitudes- changed. But guess what- now, in these more "enlightened" times, it is become the "standard of care." </p>

<p>I fail to see the harm in allowing parents to witness our sons and daughters progress on their journey. For those that suggest this is a "helo" mentality, I will stress the word WITNESS. to watch. to observe. That is a far cry from interfere.</p>

<p>I will pray the powers that be reconsider some of the policy changes- if they are "truely necessary," and hope they are based on evidence and outcome, rather than convenience, speculation, or prehaps, left-over attitudes from their own experiences at USNA. I can only speak from the perspective of a parent wanting to spend time while I can. I pray every day that there will never be a sword dedicated to the memory of my son, nor yours. </p>

<p>Let them have sea trials. Let them show off what they have learned, how they have changed, to their parents. Let the parents stand in disbelief that this is their son/daugher doing these amazing things, and thanking the cadre for getting them to this point.
Let them climb Herndon. They will no doubt have bigger challenges to climb ahead.
Let them have Plebe recognition. They have worked hard to get there.
Let the parents pin on their youngster boards. They have worked hard this year as well.
Let them have the photo op. I have no doubt Mrs. Winchester clings to every photo she is left with.</p>

<p>One for all and all for one?
You bet.
And parents are very much part of that family.</p>

48

<p>
[quote]
We are just as much a part of this journey as our sons and daughters, that we turn over to the military to safeguard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>An interesting, and I'm sure, candid viewpoint . It's safe to say all of us are interested, engaged, and involved (perhaps overly so?), but much as I'd like to be, I'm not "just as much a part of this journey" as is my Mid. Not even close and if I were to try, I would see it as sorely out of order and an embarassment to him. This is his show, not mine, and I'll be happy for the appropriate opportunities for my observation and participation, whatever they may be. Certainly going to the local club's military ball is one. After all, we're invited by the local organization. </p>

<p>My own view is we've already sent them off to pursue their dreams. Now it's the USNA's responsibility to send them to their duty, well prepared and equipped. </p>

<p>Lastly, I'm trusting that the USNA officials are equally seeking Almighty guidance in their work and fulfilling their call and mission, and fully confident He will lead them as me.</p>

49

<p>I'm a grad and a parent, so I often find myself in the uncomfortable middle of these questions.</p>

<p>I have to admit that when I attended BGO training two years ago, I was stunned a little by the involvement of parents in the Naval Academy. "Non-grad, or non-military parents as BGO's? Are you serious?" I had those thoughts, and they were natural for me becasue I had been away from the Academy for the better part of 20 years, and we all (grad or parent) have a snapshot of "the way it was" or the "way it has always been" in our minds.</p>

<p>I'm expressing sentiment that I think is common to some who resist or resent what is viewed as hyper-invlovement by parents, so please don't blast me for this. I only know that when I went 25+ years ago, that it was the end of childhood, and the beginning of adulthood. </p>

<p>Mom and Dad, who had never been super-involved in my high school achievements - except to show up for games, performances, awards and the like - were now more or less observing my USNA experience from the very detached sidelines. I couldn't possibly explain what it was like there to anyone who didn't know it firsthand. It just seemed too surreal, and friends would look at you like, "Are you nuts? That place sounds really awful or from another time. Why do you want to be there?..."</p>

<p>So, I just stopped trying to explain, and I let people believe what they saw in movies, or pieced together from incomplete information, or just plain got wrong. It was our place, and it was special because so few would ever really know what it was truly like. I liked it that way, and I think that most of us liked it that way. Leaving home and going to USNA was a pretty clear cut off point, and with the relatively closed environment of USNA meant that outsiders (and that includes parents) couldn't have involvement or visibility into the inner workings and life there.</p>

<p>I know the world is different now. With the advent of the internet, blogs, instant news, youtube and other things, even vignettes of life at USNA that were previously unknown to the general public are now out in the open for anyone with a high speed internet connection to see. Some of that is a good thing, but I have to admit that it does chafe me a little to think that some of the mystery of the place is lost, and it seems a little less to belong to the Mids (and grads) and more to anyone and everyone. </p>

<p>My parents were (and still are) very proud of my appointment and graduation from USNA, and my subsequent service, but they always kept a respectful distance. With two kids there, I try to do the same for them, but it's harder for my wife because she wants to understand what they are going through, and they will always be those cute little toddlers from family home videos. They will go out of their way to avoid telling her about things that they readily share with me, because even though a lot has changed in the nearly 25 years since I left, a lot is still the same. They can speak in USNA shorthand, and I just get it, whereas they have to spend a lot more time explaining "why" to my wife.</p>

<p>So, being in both groups, i.e. grad and parent, I can appreciate both points of view, but I will admit to being a grad first, BGO second, and a parent a somewhat distant third. Please don't get too irritated with us old grads when we express feelings of wanting the place to be a little more constant and unchanging.</p>

50

<p>I think we parents need to understand that this is not our journey, but rather our sons and daughters. We are just witnesses. Even as a person who completed the journey, I am on the outside as my son pursues his dream. I am there for moral support, as we all are, and that is how we should be involved. I do not need Sea Trials to see how my son has changed. It is already apparent in his confidence and the manner in which he carries himself. I could not agree more with the statement that this is their show and not ours. Be happy with putting on their shoulder boards or pinning on their devices on graduation day.</p>

51

<p>I think it’s important to recognize the expectations of involvement by the parents of Mids that have served or may be grads themselves may be very different then those that are just discovering what “my son/daughter is in the service” means. In that regard I hope that there is respect for some middle ground as well as sensitivity to the manner in which we may all deal with a child moving into adulthood, each in our own way. </p>

<p>Beyond the pros and cons of parents “hovering” around their Mids as they make their way through the academy, in many ways there is a much larger issue at stake when it comes to “observations” and the entire “fish bowl” environment that some have commented on. I have no real ability to judge which activities should or shouldn’t be open to public or parental view; I can only say that I am thankful so many people are interested in what goes on at the Naval Academy and take the time to visit and observe. I believe people should have the opportunity to see the young men and women that have volunteered to serve in our nations armed forces as something more than just “assets” to be spent or allocated at will and without consequence. I believe it’s equally important for members of our armed services to experience that first hand and recognize the nation they have chosen to serve is interested in them. The importance of the relationship between a citizen soldier and the citizens they serve cannot be overstated. </p>

<p>I was in uniform as Vietnam wound down. Indifference would have been a step up from many of the responses I received when I walked onto a college campus in uniform. Last month when I picked up my son at the airport for Christmas break I stood in the area next to baggage claim along with the parent of other Mids as well as those waiting for loved ones, sons and daughters returning home from college etc. When the line of Mids appeared at the top of the stairs people stood up and clapped, many many more than just the parents of the young men and women filing in. I for one am very glad we do not treat members of our nation’s armed services in the manner we did 30 years ago. Think about what we are complaining or commenting about and then think a little bit more about the things we should be thankful for.</p>

52

<p>You all bring up such valid points; the last post above validates, for me at least, some of the value of having things out in the "open" as opposed to hidden behind closed gates. Your reminder that each of us are at different points in our "discovery"... and I will add "acceptance"... is a great reminder that while we all see things through different lens! </p>

<p>I think being able to observe allows me not to huddle, interfere or direct, but rather "understand" what I might not otherwise understand. </p>

<p>You are all correct in that this is not "our" journey.... it is very much our Mid's journey... and I am not walking step by step with him, by any means, nor would I expect or desire to. But I also take great comfort, as I hope he does, in knowing that he is not walking alone.</p>

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<p>Navy2010, you are my idol.</p>

<p>Thank you for a deeply moving story, beautifully told. I grow weary of those who mutter “helicopter” at anyone who didn’t abandon offspring in a snow bank the day the kid turned 18. You remind me to trust my instincts, and to continue to try to minimize regrets I'll have in the job I do as a mother. </p>

<p>Along w/ current Mid’s, your thoughtful observations are invaluable to this board.</p>

54

<p>N2010</p>

<p>Good job! I was going to PM you to tell you so, but thought it better to say out loud.</p>

<p>USNA Dad/Grad. Also, as usual, a very reasonable outlook that captures much of what should be said.</p>

<p>For better or worse, kids are different these days and their expectations are also different.</p>

<p>I am sure there are parents who are unreasonable in their involvement expectations; just as there are parents who literally drop their child off and have nothing to do with the whole experience.
We each find our own balance. From my observatons, most [greater than 50%] seem to do just fine. The kids/mids with whom I have interaction, do not seem to have any problem w/ how their parents are involved.</p>

<p>NorthernCal. I agree wholeheartedly. I STILL talk to my father about three times a week. I expect my son will do about the same when he is able.</p>

<p>From what I have seen, there is little hovering at the various events. Perhaps some got into the "cheering section" mentality a bit too much for my taste, but they certainly did not interfere w/ the evolution. And if "cheering" for one day upsets the balance that much . . . well, you have to question the value of the rest of the training.</p>

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<p>Everyone has valid points. </p>

<p>It is totally reasonable to expect parents to want to "get involved."</p>

<p>navy2010,</p>

<p>There are plenty of opportunities, other than Sea Trials, for parents to share in USNA-related activities (such as the balls, as you mentioned), parades, football games, commissioning, just to name a few. Additionally, there is winter, summer, and spring leave to share family time together.</p>

<p>When I go home, I spend time with my family, because my parents and I understand that the amount of time we will see each other is decreasing rapidly. It is up to every individual parent/guardian/family to try and maximize their interactions/relationships when time allows. However, some USNA evolutions should only involve the MIDN...Sea Trials and Plebe Summer are two that I can think off the top of my head.</p>

<p>I am pretty sure that the Marine Corps Crucible and Navy Battle Stations, for which Sea Trials is modeled off of, parents are NOT invited. I don't think families were complaining that they couldn't see their child's accomplishment/"showing off"....and yes they do have graduation, equated to USNA commissioning.</p>

<p>Finishing plebe year, is an accomplishment and being recognized as "part of the brigade," where rating, chopping, and plebe rates cease, is an enough of a reward. Part of being humble isn't worrying about the recognition you get. If you are doing something to get a reward, then you're in the wrong place. Part of the problem, as USNA69, has mentioned, is that USNA got too loose on some of the traditions, and now that they are shifting the rudders, what was commonplace in previous year isn't. I can't tell you how many times our class has seen changes for the worse (where worse is defined as more restrictions than the previous classes has had in their year). </p>

<p>This is my opinion and I respect all others.</p>

56

<p>Actually during TBS parents are invited to Quantico for a weekend and can participate in some of the exercises - had friends that attended it this past summer they found it to be quite fun. Parents are also invited for Tiger cruises in the fleet.</p>

<p>What troubles me is the statement that some of the Mids were "embarrassed" by their parents being involved. This is the type of behavior and attitude that IS expxpected out of a pre adolescent and early teen. By 18+ you ought to be "over it" and now find the company/attendance of parents as something to cherish. How do this Mids feel about parades? Is that also embarrassing? Sometimes in our careers we have to do things that maybe we find uncomfortable but to state that is embarrassing is alarming. A good team member should not be concerned with what is going on outside the task at hand, he /she should be focused on what they need to be doing. The only reason to be embarrassed if you are not doing your part. IMO</p>

<p>I hardly call restricting Herndon as "tightening a loose tradition" 100+ years for the entire Brigade to be involved in to be shifted to something you have to Earn? Talk about holding a carrot out - the ultimate reward - being able to actually participate.</p>

<p>I agree Not everything we do should be done for the reward but the fact is in todays' society it is all about what we get at the end of the day. Why have a CPQR - an Order of merit - the Supes list - the Dant's list, a grade on the PRT... the list could go on and on. I guess everyone at USNA is in the wrong place since everything to do with career choice will be the ultimate reward.
Why not just have a lottery, forget the grades, forget the OOM, let learning take place without the reward of a high grade, high OOM.... In the fleet will you not try to do your best so that you get that reward of a promotion or should seniority just be the deciding factor? Actions for rewards are ingrained in our society so performing to please ones self and just possibly an observor or our parents is just normal human behavior.</p>

57

<p>Sorry, I wasn't clear in my earlier statement...</p>

<p>I don't think Herndon should be cancelled or modified. However, I don't think there is a need for a recognition ceremony (which I was referring to).</p>

<p>Parades are just something no one wants to do, but no one thinks that the visitors are a "distraction." </p>

<p>Yes, you are right about incentives....there has to be something. However, the recognition ceremony or even Herndon, shouldn't be considered an "incentive" for completing plebe year. The incentive comes on graduation day, when each class officially bumps up. Herndon is just tradition!</p>

58

<p>jadler, I thought you were perfectly clear. Thanks for the perspective from the 'inside'. </p>

<p>Intermediate incentives is a double-edged sword which I think has been mentioned by administration during the past few months. I teach high school kids who have trouble grasping Algebra. We have 1 1/2 hour blocks. A mid-block break is great incentive for the first half of the class. However, during the second half they shut down. I actually find that when I 'punish' them by withholding break, they stay focused much longer into the second half of the class.</p>

59

<p>^^^^ Very unusual approach. Everything we are taught and are teaching in higher ed has to do with positives - never a negative. Most studies show that people will eventually be turned off by the negative.</p>

<p>I agree with the ultimate reward being commissioning. But as NT pointed out everything about USNA has to do with a reward along the way. As stated - why have grades, why reward liberty for a job well done, why grade the PRT.... Perhaps ADM Fowler is of the punish rather than reward mentality. Somewhere there is a happy medium that would most likely achieve better results.</p>

60

<p>I just think that the association of achievement and reward is more the issue here rather than framing this in terms we would normally consider associated with disciplinary actions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Most studies show that people will eventually be turned off by the negative.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I can't say I find that surprising, though I have to wonder without "negative consequences" applied at some point along the way, when does a person make the connection between their actions and their predicament? Do they fail their way to the top?</p>