New NY Scholarship "Specifically for Illegal Immigrants" (NY Times)

Parents Forum
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<p>If the foundation is a non-profit and funds donated are tax deductible, there is a subsidy, even if privately funded. </p>

<p>Tax paying unfortunately gets treated by some as binary - you’re either one or not, and if you are, you’re the same as any other taxpayer. The reality needs to reflect how much you put in and and how much the system supports you, otherwise anyone who bought a pack of cigarettes is no different than someone who pays hundreds of thousands in taxes. </p>

<p>The not-the-child’s fault argument can also be used everywhere - there are zillions of children around the world, who through no fault of their own, are in much worse conditions because their parents didn’t break the law. So is it fair to reward families where the adults break the law while punishing those who aren’t?</p>

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<p>It’s bad enough that right now it’s being privately funded, but now they are trying to get it funded by the state. ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME??? As a New Yorker, this truly-- as I said before-- disgusts me. Our tax payer money now has to fund non-mandatory education after we ALREADY funded their mandatory k-12 education?!</p>

<p>As for the argument of it not being their fault where they were born and then brought-- by those standards, I DEMAND that I get in-state tuition for any state… because it’s not my fault my parents had me in New York.</p>

<p>Come on guys, are we going to let anyone from any county with less opportunities than the US come here illegally and welcome them with open arms? Because I’ll tell you now, there are a lot of countries with a lot of citizens that fit the bill. Fortunately, most of those people are HONEST and have MORALS and don’t enter our country illegally and take advantage of every little thing they can get from a country they don’t belong in.</p>

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<p>Dad of three…</p>

<p>excellent post.</p>

<p>I get tired of people pointing out that illegals pay sales tax and stuff. Everyone does that. I pay sales tax during my very frequent Calif visits, yet my kids wouldn’t get instate rates there. Heck, I even pay property taxes in Calif all year-round, yet I don’t get instate rates there.</p>

<p>Legal residents pay all taxes… FICA, property, local, state, federal, gas, sales,…and on and on.</p>

<p>“As for the argument of it not being their fault where they were born and then brought-- by those standards, I DEMAND that I get in-state tuition for any state… because it’s not my fault my parents had me in New York.”</p>

<p>lol…my kids should use that argument to get instate rates in Calif. We had instate rates in Calif, but then we (their parents) dragged them elsewhere without their approval.</p>

<p>And what about all the kids whose parents have them living in states that don’t give much/any state aid? What if you don’t live in Florida or Georgia or other states that have programs like Bright Futures or Hope? It’s not your fault that your parents have you living in a state with little aid or high instate rates (like PA!!).</p>

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<p>If you believe in the US and what it stands for and want to come here, your first act shouldn’t be to break the laws of this country. Yes, I realize that the kids didn’t have a choice, that it was their parent(s)…but that doesn’t change the fact that many, many come here legally. Illegals should get no benefit from jumping to the front of the line illegally.
Yes, this is disgusting.</p>

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Because it’s so better to keep them working under the table for less than minimum wage and with no benefits and few rights. Face it, someone who came here at age 4 isn’t going to get sent “back” to some country where they may not even speak the language.</p>

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<p>@sylvan8798 I’m sorry, but I don’t think that is really our problem. Their parents brought them here illegally, and that has consequences. And I don’t mean to be stereotypical, just realistic, when I say that the majority of illegal immigrants DO speak the language of their home country because that is what they grew up speaking with their family.</p>

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<p>@born2dance94,</p>

<p>I am with you on all the points, except about ability of those kids to speak the language of their country.</p>

<p>Both my husband and I are first-generation (legal) immigrants, however our kids absolutely do not speak our native language. Both my husband and I speak our native language to each other and as much as it is practically possible to our kids. While older son understands almost everything, our younger daughter barely understands any. Neither can speak native language.</p>

<p>By the way, I am very suspicious of the agenda of this program. Not only it provides scholarship, but the leadership training coupled with immigration advocacy groups does not sit well with me.</p>

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<p>These kids have been put in an untenable position by their parents. Personally, I am fine with these scholarships, and I’d like to find a path to citizenship for them.</p>

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<p>@lerkin I see what you mean there. I know many people don’t speak their parents’ home countries’ languages. However, I think that there are a good number of (legal & illegal) immigrants who do.</p>

<p>@mathmom So you are okay with any person here illegally becoming legal as long as they want an education? In that case, you’re going to see millions more pouring in and bleeding out even more money from our already overstrained system. OUR ECONOMY IS IN THE TOILET. Allowing illegals more benefits is an absolutely horrible decision right now. I am extremely liberal about all issues except illegal immigration because it allows these people to stomp all over our laws and drain our already dwindling money.</p>

<p>We have to stop paying for the education of other country’s kids. It’s bad enough to pay for their compulsory education, but paying for their college education just makes no sense. In that case, how about we just write a billion dollar check to send off to countries with poorer education standards. We might as well be doing that now, because then we wouldn’t have to pay for the rest of the benefits we dole out as a reward for breaking the law and living here illegally.</p>

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<p>Curious… what do you all think of Maryland’s version of the Dream Act? It was passed into law and signed by the governor, but was successfully made to be put onto the ballot as a referendum this fall. Because of that, it is not in effect yet.</p>

<p>Major points - the student has to have 1 - graduated from a MD high school, 2 - have parents who have paid MD state tax for at least 5 years, 3 - do their first 2 years at their local CC, whereby they can, 4 - transfer to a state U for the next 2 years at instate rates if they are academically able to. I think there’s also an age requirement, like they must have been here for x number of years already.</p>

<p>Of course, some people on both sides of the issue are (were) screaming about various things. It’s important to note that CC’s do NOT check federal status at all, only county residence so this law would not change that. </p>

<p>I think it’s a true compromise and I will vote for it.</p>

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<p>I mentioned the Maryland Dream Act and the cut to the Maryland Distinguished Scholars Awards in a different thread last year, and was told not to discuss politics. Guess things have changed in a year.</p>

<p>Last year in April the passing of the Maryland Dream Act was announced in the Baltimore Sun.</p>

<p>On the same day, on the same page of the paper, it was announced that the $3000 (per year for total of $12,000) Maryland Distinguished Scholars Award, a state funded scholarship for the top graduating students in the state to use at any instate university or college, had been discontinued for lack of funding.</p>

<p>The outcry caused in large part by the juxtiposition of those two announcements on the same day is what caused the Dream Act to be placed on a referrendum this year. </p>

<p>My son had been awarded a MD Distinguished Scholar Award a few weeks prior to it being defunded. The awards given last year were promised to be funded for all four years, but for students graduating starting in 2012, there is no more funding. My son turned it down, as he is attending an out of state university.</p>

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<p>I don’t think children whose parents brought them here illegally as minors should be punished for their parents’ illegal acts.</p>

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<p>As far as I know, no state bars the childen of felons from receiving state-based FA. </p>

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<p>Well, it’s not as if the only jobs in the world are in the U.S. Seriously. </p>

<p>There’s a large Dominican population in Upper Manhattan, including many families of mixed status, some family members here perfectly legally on short-term visas or here permanently on Green Cards or as naturalized citizens, some . . . well, overstaying their visas. Kids are born into those families and often grow up with one foot in NY and the other foot in the Dominican Republic, but mostly regarding NY as home. The kids born into those families didn’t choose their status, but they’re growing up here, many are working hard in school striving for a better life, and their parents are paying taxes just like any other resident of New York. So we should tell these kids, “No, you can’t go to school here, as soon as you turn 18 and are legally emancipated and able to make these decisions for yourself, you must depart immediately for the Dominican Republic, without an education and without prospects to improve your lot in life”? </p>

<p>Or is it better for New York to say, “Look, we know your parents broke the law and we can’t do anything about your immigration status, that’s Washington’s call, but we can give you the same fair shake in life we give to every kid growing up in NY; we can’t promise you anything beyond a chance to earn an education and take your chances from there, but whether you end up back in the DR or find a legal path to stay here, your life is going to be better if you keep your nose clean, stay in school, work hard, and get an education. And we’ll give you the same chance we’re giving your younger sibling who was born here and on that ground is legally a U.S. citizen; or your cousin who like you was born in the DR but whose parents managed to get green cards which means your cousin is now also a permanent resident alien, here legally and entitled to all the same benefits as any other New Yorker. And by the way, your chances of returning here legally will be much improved if you do go back to the DR with a higher education, but as we said, no promises.”</p>

<p>I think every kid deserves that chance. Every last one of them, regardless of the decisions their parents made. Oh, and it’s not just New York, by the way. I could tell the same story about Somali immigrants in Minneapolis, or Polish immigrants in Chicago, or Vietnamese immigrants in California.</p>

<p>And frankly, the kid who has a path to higher education is far more likely to stay in school, work hard, stay out of trouble, and avoid the ever-enticing culture of drugs and gangs and violence that seems to be the fate of those who feel they have no other options.
So I think there’s a broader social benefit to it, too.</p>

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  1. We didn’t choose to have them living here, so why should WE (both the country as a whole and taxpayers as individuals) have to be “punished” for it by giving them benefits and jobs?
  2. Again, by that argument: I didn’t choose MY status of being born in NY. Should I now get in-state tuition in every state because it’s not my fault I wasn’t born in those states? Should I get a full need scholarship at every single school because it’s not my fault that my parents aren’t poor yet aren’t rich enough that 50K a year for 2 kids in college is a drop in the bucket? Should I get legacy privileges at every school my parents didn’t go to, because it’s not my fault they didn’t go to those schools?</p>
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<p>I haven’t read through this entire thread carefully (the anger is unsettling), but I can tell you that as a New Yorker as well, I would rather that means be found to keep my state well-educated and productive. I don’t think it is realistic to assume that we are going to remove all children of illegal immigrants, so I think it makes a lot of sense to pave a way (privately, remember), to make them productive citizens. If you think this is a reward, recall that the parents certainly didn’t know this when they came here. And if you think it’s an inducement, remember that the kids still have to work an earn admission someplace. You know how hard that is, and if it makes kids feel like there is a purpose to being in school and makes them study, i can’t see what is wrong with it. You would rather a state filled with marginalized people? You really think they will go back? I think this is a good plan (I also thought Rick Perry’s plan to give in-state tuition to children of illegal immigrants in Texas was uncharacteristically sensible). It is not just humane, it is pragmatic.</p>

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<p>Wake up. Our entire country is broke. Illegal immigrants are killing the entire california k-12 school system. These scholarships (and instate tuition for illegals) are encouraging people to break the law and weaken our country. Period. I am all for legal immigration. We are a nation of immigrants. I am NOT for a nation of lawbreakers.</p>

<p>Half of the world’s population lives on $2/day. Maybe we should let them all into the USA, no?</p>

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<p>sorry, I might’ve missed this, but are you saying that anyone under the age of 18 is allowed to enter the United States?</p>

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<p>No, we should deport the people who aren’t here legally. You see… they are breaking the law.</p>

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<p>Again… half the world lives on $2/day. Do they all deserve a shot at American higher education? Or just the ones from families that break our laws?</p>

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<p>of course there is societal benefit of these people not joining gangs in the US… they also won’t join gangs in the US if they don’t live in the US anymore.</p>

<p>I am firmly against rewarding people who break the laws. It is not acceptable. The only thing it does is encourage more and more people to break the law.</p>

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<p>I’m sure the kids who don’t have a spot in school because their spot has been given to someone that shouldn’t even be in the country will be appreciative.</p>

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You as an individual didn’t choose to have anyone else in this country either, so why should you be required to pay taxes benefitting anyone but yourself? On the flip side, this country as a whole did not make an intentional decision to have you, so why exactly should you be more entitled to public subsidy than other young adults in your community?</p>

<p>Society works because we give up some of our individual rights for the greater good. I see no better reason to refuse equal rights and opportunities to children of undocumented immigrants than to children of felons (who broke their social contract) or children of the underclass (whose parents didn’t contribute as much in taxes as they are receiving back from the system) or any child at all. Let’s not give public subsidy to anyone by default and instead make <em>everyone</em> go through a process by which society can approve or deny their presence in this country.</p>

<p>Just think about it: there is no difference between the average child born to documented vs undocumented parents when they reach college age. The documented children haven’t paid any more taxes or made grand contributions to society that their undocumented peers have not. Society generally invests into children before they make a contribution, so that these children can grow up to be productive members of society later. </p>

<p>You could try to argue that children should derive benefits from the contributions of their parents. But then we should not give benefits to the children of teenage parents or orphans either. </p>

<p>You could try to argue that supporting the children of undocumented immigrants would encourage more undocumented immigration. That seems unlikely, because immigrants who really care about the fate of their children are already making better decisions (like delay having children until after they arrive in the US, because anyone born on US soil gets US citizenship by default). And you would certainly not get immigrants who are just hoping for a college discount. If you want a cheap college education for your children, you’d probably move to one of those European countries where college is free for everyone regardless of citizenship.</p>

<p>You could try to argue that the US society already has more people than it can support. But then why would you give citizenship to victims of human trafficking, to refugees or to relatives of US citizens? Heck, anyone born on US soil gets US citizenship by default. Why should it make such a GIGANTIC difference whether you are born a year before or a year after your parents crossed the border?</p>

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<p>By the way, I am very suspicious of the agenda of this program. Not only it provides scholarship, but the leadership training coupled with immigration advocacy groups does not sit well with me.</p>

<p>Oh yeah…that is a concern.</p>

<p>bclintonk…</p>

<p>??? So, US taxpayers are supposed to help them get educated here with instate rates to prepare them to work in other countries? lol Right.</p>

<p>And…Barilium…your argument about society not deciding which US citizens are born is ridiculous. As Americans, we have the right to be here and enjoy what this country has to offer.</p>

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I’d be all for that! Instead we are exploiting undocumented immigrants for cheap labor and the system in place makes sure that they stay poor.</p>