If students have to disclose the reason for accommodation, there’s less likelihood of abuse of the policy. Don’t you think?
No, they would not disclose that.
@1NJParent - I’m not sure if you’re aware, but kids with disabilities are much more likely to be actively discouraged from taking or denied access to honors and AP-level classes. So already, before even entering a testing center, these kids are at a significant disadvantage when it comes to testing. And the hoops that the College Board and ACT folks make you jump through to secure testing accommodations are pretty significant.
Will some people cheat the system? Of course - Varsity Blues is an extreme example of that. But to suggest that kids have to reveal their disabilities to “justify” an accommodation is pretty ableist. The systems are already heavily stacked against students with disabilities. You really shouldn’t worry about one of them taking your kid’s slot in a college somewhere. It’s much more statistically likely that those kids have to work much harder and jump over many more barriers than your kid to get there.
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No, I don’t. Everyone who receives an accommodation has paperwork and support for it. Even those who abuse it (and I don’t concede that significant numbers do abuse the policy, I believe it’s the exception on the whole) have paperwork and support or else they wouldn’t be able to receive the accommodation and so sending that info onto a school wouldn’t phase them any more than sending it on to the College Board.
Why do you assume this group of students would be willing to cheat the College Board but not willing to share that same info with a college–it’s most likely they’ve already shared it with their high school in order to get help in receiving the accommodation. Why would honesty start only when having to share it with an admissions officer?
Your solution doesn’t stop the cheating you are so concerned with and does potentially harm the majority who may be judged unfairly by an admissions counselor.
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Some people on this thread seem to be overlooking the biases that many people have about brain-related disabilities.
If you had a disability and were applying for a job for which many candidates had applied do you want the interviewer to know upfront that you have a disability that other candidates don’t? That’s essentially the same scenario with sharing accommodation information with AOs.
The very premise someone mentioned that requiring disclosing the reason for accommodation would result in less likelihood of abuse acknowledges that someone who needs accommodations is more likely viewed negatively.
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If anything, SAT and ACT help lower income students. If motivated, a student can study on their own to achieve a high score, which is what my daughter did. You are naive if you think the wealthy don’t have a massive advantage with paying for essay writing companies, and extra curricular programs, internships, and other resume building activities.
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Thank you! The following is an actual conversation I witnessed about a twice exceptional (2e) student - academically gifted and ADHD. Student did not score as AG when tested without accommodations for ADHD, but scored highly AG when tested with accommodations.
GC: The student scores as academically gifted on the CogAt, so why would they need accommodations for ADHD?
Teacher: And if they need accommodations for ADHD, then maybe they aren’t AG.
Picture my head hitting the conference room table.
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And, per my training as a college faculty member, the ADA (not to mention simple politeness).
If I get a letter from my university’s disability support services office stating that a student requires certain accommodations, I am, under both ADA and HIPAA rules, (a) required to offer those accommodations* and (b) not allowed to require the student to divulge the reason that those accommodations are required. (The student can, of course, choose to divulge the reason, but I’m not even supposed to ask. I’ve gotten to where I prefer not to know, anyway.)
The flip side of this, naturally, is that I’m not allowed to set up the rules for accommodations myself—I have neither the expertise nor the authority to do so. So if a student tells me they have a processing delay and so need more time, my response will always be to refer them to disability support services, where they can find out what the process for documenting and verifying such a diagnosis is.
TL;DR: Making accommodations for students isn’t simply a case of them just asking for them and then getting them, and part of that is keeping the details private.
[font size=“-2”]* There is an exception to this for cases in which an accommodation would substantively impact the learning outcomes for the course, but such waivers are effectively never given at my institution (or, from what I’ve heard from colleagues elsewhere, anywhere else), because it turns out that such claims are generally the result of not thinking the whole thing through. F’rex, to use an image from upthread, wheelchair users can certainly successfully complete dance courses at all levels.[/font]
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@1NJParent, you said:
If students have to disclose the reason for accommodation, there’s less likelihood of abuse of the policy. Don’t you think?
It would be great if you could clarify what you meant there. Because, it sounds like you believe that students who are cheating under the current system and lying to the College Board/ACT organization about having a disability wouldn’t do so under your proposed solution, as your solution would require these students to lie about having a disability to admissions officers, too.
Let’s see this through to its conclusion. Why would someone trying to game the system be fine with lying about having a disability to the College Board/ACT folks but not to a college? It’s the same lie, right? What’s the difference?
As suggested by your “solution”, the only difference I can think of for a kid to lie to one but not the other is perhaps, you recognize that an admissions officer may see a disability listed and treat that student’s application differently (even unintentionally differently.)
And, if that’s the case, then, perhaps, you’re acknowledging that students with disabilities are often disadvantaged in the admissions process.
And, if that’s the case, that’s a very persuasive argument as to why your solution of forcing kids to reveal their disability to colleges if they want access to accommodations, is discriminatory towards kids with disabilities.
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I’m enjoying the recent subthread on accommodations, but to move back a few, recall that the initial claim underlying this discussion was that SAT/ACT scores add something of unique worth to the admissions process (at least at T{insert lowish number here} colleges), and that going test-optional therefore degrades the quality of the decisions being made.
One thing that has come up over and over again on this thread (including hard data from @Data10 in particular*) is that SAT/ACT scores add little or nothing to the quality of admissions decisions. Even if, at a gut level, it seems that standardized test scores add something to the process, they don’t necessarily.
Well, except in a trivial (in the technical sense) way, I suppose—more data will effectively always produce models that at least look like they’re on firmer footing, mathematically speaking. But when one of the streams of data going into a model is extremely tightly correlated with other factors in the model (like, oh, to pick something entirely not at random, SAT/ACT scores are with grades), then the quality of that improvement in the model is questionable at best, since you’re also introducing confounds.
* Aside: @Data10 is one of the reasons I want the “helpful” reaction back.
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Does this imply that the rates of accommodation found in high SES schools are the “true” rates, while the lower rates of accommodation found in low SES schools reflect lower access to resources to diagnose and support the finding of a disability that is actually present? Or does it imply that high SES kids are actually more likely to have disabilities?
If the former, and the “true” rates of disability are 20-30% as the accommodation rate is in some schools, then are such disabilities really “special”, or should they be assumed and accommodated as within the range of normal variation in schooling and testing?
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If you visited California when they first started medical marijuana I think you would have a different opinion about the ease of obtaining a medical diagnosis of anxiety. The stores would often have a Dr’s office adjacent to them for essentially one stop shopping. It is beyond easy to get a diagnosis for anxiety when all you need is to state you are anxious, nervous, can’t sleep, etc before a test and have a willing parent back you up in order to get that paperwork. Voila! You get the extra time since there is no way to specifically determine whether or not the anxiety is real. Again, eliminate the advantage of obtaining paperwork through false statements by giving extra time to everyone and at least this part of the debate will be over.
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I’m not an expert in the field, simply a parent who’s gone through it and a university professor now. Based on my knowledge, I’d err on the side of the true rate is closer to what we see in high SES areas as a lack of resources both at home and at school to diagnose or demand support means lower rates in lower SES areas.
To answer your second question, it’s important to understand that the range of disabilities that require accommodation we’re talking about is huge from diabetes to ADHD to epilepsy to processing disorders and more. Not all can be accommodated within the range of normal variation. In a perfect world, it would ideal for every child to receive an individualized approach to education. That’s not feasible or possible and so the system teaches to many averages–those at either end of an average, for lots of reasons, deserve support.
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This is my impression as well. Parents pay $3-5K for testing using a psychologist, who relies on word of mouth referrals. If students are leaving without the diagnosis they need for accommodations, parents will be angry about the money they spent and won’t refer the psychologist–and they’ll go to someone else (who will give them what they want). I hate to sound so cynical, but I think more (wealthy) people abuse the system than we realize (or would like to think).
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If the true rate of relevant disabilities is 20-30% as found in some high SES schools, but the national rate of accommodations is only 2.3%, that presumably means that about 18-28% of students have undiagnosed or unaccommodated disabilities (probably less obvious or visible ones). That is a rather large number of students nationwide.
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SAT scores are correlated with grades, except when they aren’t (15% grades higher than scores, 15% scores higher than grades, if I recall?). That’s a full third of apps.
Last fall, when @Jeff_Selingo hosted a thread on his new book, Jeff Selingo Reveals "Who Gets In and Why" - ASK HIM ANYTHING! posts #64 and 66:
- Is there a particular impression/stereotype of students submitting a relatively high score and relatively low GPA?
When I read your question the first group I thought of: boys
3: I have heard a number of AOs (mostly at LACs) say the average GPA of admitted boys is significantly lower than girls. Did you see boys receive relatively more leeway than girls on GPA in the admission process?
Yes.
Food for thought on the extent to which the additional data point of scores may or may not add value to the holistic process, on when AOs are giving leeway for grades. Perhaps AOs give the leeway regardless of the score data point, or perhaps more leeway when a relatively higher score is present? Eventually, does that lead to a question of fairness to, say, a female applicant with the same type of discrepancy? and how much is the review process relying on characteristic tendencies of a demographic group rather than actual data on a particular applicant? Just thinking out loud, if any of this makes sense.
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Gosh this whole thread has taken such a disturbing turn. Can’t believe we are even questioning children with disabilities or why they get accommodations.
As a parent to a child with a documented disability, I assure you she gets no “special” treatment. She gets accommodations to level the playing field. I, as her parent also don’t think it’s been a walk in the park. She couldn’t say one word at 2 years old. She’s been through hours and hours of testing over her 18 years. I have fought for her, advocated for her and fought that she’d get the accommodations she needed (and was entitled to). She felt shamed to be going into the “small” class in elementary and middle school. She learned how to make up for her disability and ask that her modifications were being done because she soon learned she wouldn’t be able to remain in her educational setting and keep up at the same level without them. All the while trusting that those other adults had your child’s best interest.
I would gladly give up testing accommodations for my child if it meant her having a normal “non special ed” label.
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@cgemaj I’m sorry to hear about the difficult journey for your child. I have no doubt that many students legitimately need and receive appropriate accommodations. I don’t necessarily think that many of the points being made on this thread are mutually exclusive. We can agree that accommodations are valid and important for many kids while also thinking that many people are trying to exploit a loophole. My only point is that I think a group of parents are stretching the definition of a disability (or even exaggerating or inventing their child’s symptoms) because they want extra time on high-stakes tests because they view them as essential to the college admissions process. If testing goes by the wayside, it will be interesting to see if there is a reduction in the number of students who are seeking (and receive) accommodations. To be clear, though, I’m in no way saying that all families/kids take advantage or that accommodations shouldn’t be available to those who need them. But my own small window into the universe of wealthy families and private schools suggests that there is some abuse of the current system.
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There will always be people cheating the system. Always. Across the board in every aspect of life for that manner. I just know for us (in NJ) mine had to go through hours of testing every few years in order to even have an IEP. You can’t just walk in and ask for more time on the SAT. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not that easy to get.
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As someone who has lived in both higher and lower SES worlds, I suspect it is a mixture. There may well be a higher incidence of certain disabilities in higher vs lower SES population + there may be some cases of over diagnosis in higher SES. Frankly, if a family is of the nature that they are intentionally shopping for a disability diagnosis for a kid they know doesn’t have it, just to get extra time on tests because they are so anxious for them to get a certain score to get into certain colleges, they may well be suffering from anxiety.
I definitely suspect there is under diagnosis in lower SES. One factor that I believe people may be overlooking is that in lower SES, it may not always be related to lack of access, but rather due to intentional avoidance. I know I have personally witnessed that. School desperately wanted to help the kid (suspected 2e AG/ADHD), but family absolutely refused to pursue it.
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