No, I’m not aware. But why are kids with disabilities denied access? Shouldn’t that be prohibited under the disability laws?
What are these hoops?
Which is it? Do they have to disclose or not? Two of you seem to suggest the opposite.
I don’t have any stake in it. I’m just trying to figure out what’s equitable for everyone.
A simple threshold like >27 = good and <27 = bad doesn’t make sense to me. It also doesn’t seem consistent with the previously linked studies. In 2018 (latest available year on ASEE), Michigan engineers had a 25th percentile ACT of 32 for both math and composite, so I’d expect the sample size is ~0 for Michigan engineers with <27 ACT combined with having a top GPA while taking many rigorous math/science courses and excelling in other non-stat portions of application. If sample size is ~0 with no actual students in this group, then it’s a hypothetical discussion without actual examples.
I’d agree that performance in higher level courses like AP calculus and AP physics seems more relevant than being able to answer simple lower level math questions quickly without careless errors. This is particularly true for first year engineering courses. Some colleges have engineering tracks in which first year math/physics courses largely repeat the information from AP classes. Success in these first year courses is well correlated with persisting to 2nd year, rather than switching to a non-engineering major.
This is what is so confusing, at least to me. If the kid is willing to disclose to the high school to be accommodated, why couldn’t s/he disclose the same thing to the college? S/he may need accommodation in college as well.
That’s not necessarily true. Students with disabilities, like other disadvantaged students, may get an admission boost.
I can’t follow thread without seeing the questions. Possibly I answered the wrong question - not sure.
Source for this?? I’m kind of in disbelief about this statement. Schools are concerned about students being successful at their college. Anything that might indicate a problem is a red flag. I’m thinking of the fact that schools are much more aware that kids are more mentally fragile these days and as a result are actively looking for kits with “grit” and reslience. And not looking for kids that are depressed, or anxious, or whatever. (Source: spouse who worked in higher ed). Same with thinks like ADHD. Some ADHD kids will in fact struggle in college and need more help. But others, like my son, who did get extra time on the ACT (because we provided the neuropsychologist report based on 8 hours of testing and costing $3,000). Forgive the brag, but he’s killing it at a T20. He has a super high GPA. And at this point gets almost no accomodation for his ADHD. Disclosing is condition could well have been a red flag for the college.
One other point. I totally defer to teachers on this thread, however I do have an opinion about whether things like ADHD are underdiagnosed in low SES settings. Emphatically yes! Some kinds of ADHD aren’t the bouncing off the walls kind; it looks like laziness and daydreaming, and not trying and being incredibly disorganized and forgetful. I believe many turn to self medicating to get through.
Finally, just how many people do you all actually think are cheating? I’m also of the opinion that there will always be cheaters, and if you fix one thing, they will find another way. Not saying they should be tolerated, but how many are shopping around for neuropsych testing at $3,000 a pop? Yeah, there are people that might fork out $9,000 (multiple rounds of testing, or “shopping around”) simply to get another hour or two on an exam, but really, do you think there are lots of them??
It obviously would depend on a college’s policy. All I’m saying is that a college could consider disabilities in a number of ways. They may choose to give these students special consideration, as some of them do with low-SES students. Is there any evidence that students with disabilities are discriminated against by AOs?
Students may well choose to disclose to their college if they feel they need accommodations continued. Some will need the same accommodations, some won’t. College is a different environment than high school in many ways.
Note the word “choose”. That’s very different than being forced to.
no more than a baseball pitcher would be with a shoulder injury
Oh my goodness. The very existence of the ADA is the result of discrimination against those with disabilities.
Yes, but now we have these laws on the books. Are the discriminations continuing?
Generally counselors advise college applicants to NOT divulge the need for accommodations on the application because of the belief (grounded in actual experience) that this information could negatively impact the student’s chances of admission.
HSs, ACT, and CB can not communicate that a specific student had accommodations in HS and/or on the ACT/SAT due to HIPAA and other privacy laws.
Of course applicants should make sure any college they are applying to can support any accommodations they need.
Now it makes some sense why children with higher SES are getting higher scores. They are getting test prep. But more importantly they are getting extra time.
That to me would be a legitimate reason. Are those actual experiences from pre-ADA or post-ADA?
The ADA was passed in 1990. Safe to say this advice is more recent than that.
Good question, and one I can’t really answer…ADA has been around for 30 years, so my sense is much of it would be post-ADA because well, 30 years is a long time.
Fundamentally, if one divulges the need for an accommodation, or medical history (mental health, eating disorder, etc.), the applicant forces the AO to decide if the school can offer the student what they need, based only on a written application, with no discussion of the issue. That seems risky to many counselors, so makes sense for applicants to address these issues post-acceptance.
@1NJParent said:
Yes, but now we have these laws on the books. Are the discriminations continuing?
Yes, the discriminations continue.
But it’s also important to note, that while the “wealthy” may have access to these programs not all may want to use them. In addition, some of these “techniques” might not actually help the candidacy. Having someone else write your essays means you lose your unique voice, a Summer internship for 3 weeks with a big title for a 17 year old ( also not in the bonus box, IMO). I do agree that kids who are wealthy can get credit for some programs which are just not feasible for most. But AO’s also know which ones are pay to play and which are competitively based. There are few that are competitive and also expensive. Usually if you apply you will get in. Still I don’t underestimate the value of someone being able to express their interests every Summer during a program. And naturally, that takes money.
You are assuming that everyone agrees with the data provided. I do not. And how are you proving that test scores add little or nothing to the quality of admissions? I see this often on CC, someone has an opinion provides a link to something that supports their opinion and then assumes it is fact and everyone is on board with their opinion. Nope.
There has not been a comprehensive report that covers all colleges and uses scores as the baseline metric to gauge “the quality of admissions” as you say.
People who pay for a diagnosis for their kids aren’t exploiting a loophole. They’re committing fraud.